is the bible real or just some verry old story?

[SurlyPIG]

Why would it not apply?  The Bible also says not to eat pork and lobster and wear blended clothing.  Presumably because at the time it was written, pigs and crustaceans could not be cooked properly so as to kill all the bacteria in them, and because they way fabrics were mixed caused rashes, itching and peeling of the skin.  So the warnings in the Bible about such things does not apply anymore.

Why it wouldn't apply is just what Earthnuker said.  In a time where the first born male was the leader of the family, it made sense for the divine to give the family a strong base, a fortuitous leader.  The Bible is pro-family, so it is sensical from a simple point of view.  But a fortuitous first-born isn't necessary and doesn't apply in the same sense.  Would you be comfortable giving money to a distant cousin?

If this first-born thing still applies, then isn't it wrong to eat lobster and pork?  If the fortunes of your life really were granted by God, shouldn't you checking the label before you buy your shirts? (though if I remember right it only applies to linen-wool fabrics)

[GUNWOUNDS]

Why would it not apply?

[Acriku]

I want to discuss this assuming that:

1.) god does exist

2.) that this father's blessing was real and active in the old testament.

3.) why it would not apply to today or why god would de-activate something

That's a hell of a lot of assuming for a discussion! Besides, if you are assuming all of this already, then what possibly could come out of the discussion?

"I got fortunes from a blessing by my grandfather."

"Oh, yes, that happens..."

"Yep."

"Ok."

Also, this thread questions the truth of the bible, so it would make sense that you would not be assuming those three things, but since you are, this discussion is offtopic.

[edsbrick]

which bible??????????????????

ed

[Acriku]

Probably the old and new testament. Specific interpretations aren't relevant since they still retain the main idea.

[TMA_1]

acriku, I dont follow the ideals of gunwounds, because that is more of an ancient hebrew practice, and the bible says that christians dont have to follow the cultural and legal ways of the jews, but certain tenants that the new testament confirms of the old testament. The old and new testament are just as equal, but in my view, christians are ina different time, a different dispensation, so we dont follow the cultural and national blessings of the jews since we dont live in the land of israel in a theocracy.

still though gunwounds follows these cultural sentiments, It is kinda wrong to downplay cultural thoughts and ways just because you think they are "silly".

[Acriku]

Why not? I think it is downright silly that a person thinks they gained fortune from a blessing their grandfather gave them. I also think it is downright silly that a person thinks God makes it rain, and thunder is his wrath being shown. I also think it is downright silly that a person thinks they have a divine right to be king over all the people. I also think it is downright silly that a person thinks they can live through a snake's (or is it a scorpion's?) bite by believing in Jesus as their savior. Anyway, you get the idea. Why should I think them any less silly just because it might offend someone who actually believes in them.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Thats alot to assume... and this is how the conversation would go ...

"I got fortunes from a blessing by my grandfather."

"Oh, yes, that happens..."

"Yep."

"Ok."

errrmm... not really... Acelethal did a really nice job providing a rebuttal under my prescribed guidelines for discussion. As well as TMA.

so your above quote is  false .... go read their most recent posts to see what i am referring to .

[Acriku]

ACE used it to branch into a logical sequitor. Ok, fine. TMA didn't really discuss about the blessing, but the ramifications of belittling it. And look - no discussion of the blessing itself. So my quote stands.

Do you also have a response to my point that your assumptions are inconstistent with the entire point of this thread?

Also, you seem to have a bad habit of quoting other people, and altering their words without a note or indication that it was done. Please stop that.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Ok, fine. TMA didn't really discuss about the blessing, but the ramifications of belittling it. And look - no discussion of the blessing itself. So my quote stands.

TMA said ----> acriku, I dont follow the ideals of gunwounds, because that is more of an ancient hebrew practice, and the bible says that christians DONT have to follow the cultural and legal ways of the jews

i believe he was indirectly referring that the blessing was somehow outdated..... however... your correct in that he didnt exactly say it wouldnt work if asked for.

[mordusxxx]

how about we think of the bible as not a text for believing but a book that shows one idea of the thought of man kind and how things came to be, in the authors eyes. this is always gonna come up in any topic about the bible, many people have said it and i am saying it again, believe what u want to believe because my beliefs are diffrent from yours, so if u want to believe in christ then thats fine, if u want to believe in budha thats fine and if u want to believe in zues thats also fine, just dont have a blatant topic about if the bible is real or not, that is like trying to ask if the tooth fairy real, mabye in some land there was a person that came and payed for teeth, or something like that, the story could be related to what i am trying to say, things happen and people believe so why shouldnt it be true, and why should it. its all how u want to take it i guess if u like the fact that u will die and maybe go to heaven or hell or some divine place, or if u die and nothing happens u just go to sleep and never wake up, who knows only death will tell and he aint saying shit. so gl with all your ideas everyone and hopefully i will reply some more

[TMA_1]

the only thing that keeps people from making a commitment to God, that has no strings attached, and could potentially save them from hell is their stubburnness. If it isnt true, then I lived a good life, but if it is true then wont I recieve more then those who didnt believe? it is just logical to believe in christ.

[mordusxxx]

its not logical its just the fact that came to, and u beleive what if i said that god was dead> or what if i said god killed himself? what would u believe, well surely not me because u dont think he is capable of commiting things like that u are just thinking about the all mighty and all good lord, who knows u dont i dont, all i am saying is the belief of one god or ten gods or no god is the belief u come to so u can rest easy at night

[Acriku]

It's logical to believe in Christ? TMA you win the award for the Most Overstated Statements of Fed2k. I assume you're addressing Pascal's Wager? What if I were to tell you it is logical to believe in Allah, not Christ, because Christ is not the savior, and Allah is God? It's a meaningless assertion, just as yours is.

Good thoughts mordus, especially your last sentence.

[mordusxxx]

Well I just believe what I believe, there is no one set religion and if there was then there aint anymore, so if u like your god or gods, or if u have no god then u most likely came to that belief nothing is true nothing is real, think about that

[DjCiD]

What if God, Allah, Buddha etc. were all the same God ... but since the Tower of Babble the story's got confusing from one language to the other?

Then would it be logical to believe in something greater?

[Acriku]

Dj, then remove Allah and put Thor. Put Oden. Put Zeus. Put Jupiter. These gods existed before the Tower of Babel's story I believe.

It's certainly possible that if the Tower of Babel's story is true then different cultures may have arisen through different tongues and expressions. But, is that story really true? It's very similar to any other myth that tries to explain something of the world. Like the story of Arachne, explaining spiders and their silky webs. Or in this case, the story of the Tower of Babel, explaining the diversity of language. It's an interesting myth, no doubt, however.

It would still not be logical, because those different gods hold different practices, methods, rituals, and traditions, and most of the gods you listed involve strict adherence to their specific ritual and tradition, otherwise it's damnation. So, which ritual - which tradition?

[SurlyPIG]

There are thousands of religions Dj and pleanty of them contradict each other in blatantly intentional ways.  Relions were made my men, the Bible, Qur'an, the Torah, KJV all written by men.  For all you know what Acriku does with his life is the true path to salvation, if salvation exists.  With the amount of baseless human speculations on what is true and what is right in the world, why bother?  And yeah I've heard the response because it's right because I feel it because its the true path because of this prophecy blah blah blah.  6 billion other people play the same tune in different songs.

[edsbrick]

There are thousands of religions Dj and pleanty of them contradict each other in blatantly intentional ways.

[Acriku]

Do you just like to quote people, or did you forget to add a reply?

[edsbrick]

if someone types something i agree with i quote it..

saves typing which im rubbish at

ed

[TMA_1]

lol...

Look acriku, if you are going to argue about the bible, the least you can do is understand it.lol ::)

THe tower of babel existed early in the existance of the kingdom of ancient sumaria. The great king Nimrod (who has a city in the former persian empire called Nimrood el bar cush, cush was the father of nimrod in the bible).  THe tower of babel was created to flip god off basically. Josephus said Nimrod created the tower to spite god for killing his human ancestors. Anyways it was destroyed and humans were dispersed with different languages. This happened only a hundred or so years after the flood (anywhere from 6000 to 4000 bc) at the beginning of the kingdoms of the new world. The world was largely monotheistic at the time, but after dispersion the world departed in their own groups of people with their own languages. DJ was right, after the dispersion the religions of the world were created from offshoots of the original belief, all having the remnants of this belief, some more tainted than others.

needless to say the roman religion wasent before the tower of babel. ::)

There is evidance of the tower of babel existed, there have been documents found where kings mention the foundation of babylon on the "tongue tower" which was called babel (which means language). THis is why babylon is called babylon. Whcih means confusion.

[thomas]

read the book "Gold of Exodus"

it's pretty good, not too religious and is a true story, involves spies and espinoge (sp?)

[edsbrick]

lol...

Look acriku, if you are going to argue about the bible, the least you can do is understand it.lol ::)

after the dispersion the religions of the world were created from offshoots of the original belief, all having the remnants of this belief, some more tainted than others.

the original belief.........?

explain yourself  please.

ed

[Acriku]

Thanks for quoting that ed, I forgot to reply to it when I got home yesterday.

Look acriku, if you are going to argue about the bible, the least you can do is understand it.lo

Do you mean that the Towel of Babel story is not meant to explain something of the world, perhaps the origin of languages? Or is it just a story, and people had extrapolated explanations from it? Either way, it has many similarities between itself and other myths such as Greek/Roman myths. So, one - am I wrong? and two - what did you mean the least I can do is understand it?

I also have a problem with the Tower of Babel. God knew that they couldn't ever reach heaven. Or even space, with that tower. So - why did he put such a harsh punishment? Especially when he knew it was going to happen an eternity before it happened.

There is evidance of the tower of babel existed, there have been documents found where kings mention the foundation of babylon on the "tongue tower" which was called babel (which means language). THis is why babylon is called babylon. Whcih means confusion.

Gathering evidence for the existence of a tower that may have inspired the story does not actually prove the story.