The Nazis and the Conservatives

[Edric O]

Franz von Papen (on the left hand side, in the foreground) with Adolf Hitler and Joseph Goebbels

Given a number of recent claims by Caid Ivik about Hitler's National "Socialism", I think it's time for a history lesson.

The appointment of Adolf Hitler as chancellor of Germany marked the beginning of the end for the Weimar Republic, and the failure of Germany's first attempt at democracy. But few people realize that the NSDAP (National Socialist German Workers' Party - a very clever name, designed to appeal to the lower middle class, recently forced into poverty by the Great Depression) only received about 1/3 of the total votes at the last free elections, in 1932. There was no way they could rule on their own - a coalition government had to be formed. And Hitler's partners in that coalition were the Conservatives, lead by the ambitious aristocrat Franz von Papen, who thought he could "tame" Hitler and use him as his political tool. But the German Conservatives were merely the first in a long line of people who underestimated Hitler. In January 1933, all seemed well: Hitler became chancellor, and von Papen became vice-chancellor. But in just a few short moths, Hitler had outlawed all other political parties, arrested or executed their leaders and senior members (especially Social Democrats and Communists), and assumed full dictatorial powers for himself. The age of the 3rd Reich had begun.

That was just a very short summary of the events of 1932-1933, and I didn't talk about how Germany got to be in that situation in the first place. That's because there's a long tradition on this forum to dispute every historical fact presented by someone if he doesn't back it up with many sources. So I decided to not write down all the events myself, but rather give links to various articles about the fall of the Weimar Republic and the rise of Nazism:

Weimar Germany and the Rise of the Nazis

The myth of Hitler's "democratic" rise to power

Fascism and Nazism: The Seizure of Power

Hitler and the Rise of National Socialism (excerpt from the first article)

There is one major event in particular that I want to draw your attention to - the great Reichstag Fire of 1933:

On February 27, 1993, a fire engulfed the Reichstag -- Germany's symbol, if not actual center, of democracy. Hitler blamed it on the Communists, and used it as an excuse to begin a brutal crackdown. This he accomplished by drawing up an emergency decree "for the Protection of the people and the State." It read:

"Restrictions on personal liberty, on the right of free expression of opinion, including freedom of the press; on the rights of assembly and association; and violations of the privacy of postal, telegraphic and telephonic communications and warrants for house searches, orders for confiscations as well as restrictions on property, are also permissible beyond the legal limits otherwise prescribed."

And Hitler got the distraught and half-senile Hindenburg to sign it. Almost immediately, the Nazis initiated a wave of terror, murder and torture that effectively cowed thousands of their political rivals, almost all of them Communists, Social Democrats and other liberals. Herman Goering, now in charge of the police, replaced senior police officers with his own S.A. or S.S. leaders. He ordered them:

"Police officers who make use of fire-arms in the execution of their duties will, without regard to the consequences of such use, benefit from my protection; those who fail in their duty will be punished."

[attachment archived by Gobalopper]

[Edric O]

So... doesn't anyone have any comments about this? ???

[Hawat]

Yeah all of that is true. So what?

[Dude_Doc]

Yes? And the point is? That Bush will do a similar thing? That Blair will? Germany will create a fourth reich? ???

[Dante]

To remind us that perhaps we could have done something to avoid a calamity if only we hadn't been so slow and stupid? That perhaps history has repeated/is repeating itself in the USA?

Or maybe just clarifying a few clouded beliefs as to how Hitler came to power.

[Dude_Doc]

To remind us that perhaps we could have done something to avoid a calamity if only we hadn't been so slow and stupid?

We didn't know then. The people thought it was the best for them. They saw new opportunities. They saw a way of highten their status to "leaders of the world". Back then, almost any nation thought of itself as supperior, that's why nationalistic parties were so open back then. Now we know. And we will, hopefully, never allow such thing to happen again. Now, we know that every person is equal. We know that there is no such thing as "supperior" race, because we were all born on this very planet, we didn't come here by spaceships or something like that.

That perhaps history has repeated/is repeating itself in the USA?

I doubt that. Now, we have global alliances, like the UN, and people are more educated. We have more control of the government than we did 50 or 100 years ago, when many people were naive, and just went with the rest of the people. Now, we know that there are problems around the globe, and we oughta do something about it. We are no longer nationalists.

And Bush could never claim such power. Oh, well, he could, but it is not likely. He has a maximum of 8 years in office, and he will probably be out-voted in the next ellections.

[Edric O]

Actually, all I wanted to do was to point out that Hitler's best friends were the right-wingers...

In other words, I wanted to show you some of the proof that despite the name of Hitler's party, he was still very much a right-winger, and Caid's attempts to re-write history are WAY off.

[Dude_Doc]

Ehh, in another thread you said Hitler was a pretty much centrist, leaning to the right, but strongly authorian.

[Hawat]

I wouldn't talk about friendship here, it was more like a (not necessarily positive) symbiosis. They wanted to tame Hitler (as you mentioned) and use him as their puppet and he tried to justify his reign through the public appreciation he got from Hindenburg (appointment as chancellor)

[Caid Ivik]

So... doesn't anyone have any comments about this? ???

How pathetic. After 4 hard days of ignorance (I thought you found out why...) you make a double post just to take the thread upwards, hoping that someone will read it and stay with your fascinating theory that

Everything what isn't like us is same and evil! Who stays on a side of street is the enemy! Boys and girls, come with us, we'll reach the five-year plan!

[Edric O]

Ehh, in another thread you said Hitler was a pretty much centrist, leaning to the right, but strongly authortaian.

Leaning to the right = right-wing (at least that's what I meant when I said it; sorry for the confusion)

Caid, the whole reason why I made this topic was because you were trying to make all your political enemies seem as if they belonged in the same category (which is utterly false, but you insisted on it anyway).

[Caid Ivik]

By showing, that nazism and communism (all 2 opposers of democracy, and trough it of me) are totalitarian?

[Edric O]

No, by repeatedly telling the same LIE that you're saying right now: that communism is "totalitarian".

How many times must I repeat myself?

Communism cannot exist without democracy.

READ The Revolution Betrayed to see why a totalitarian state (like the Soviet Union) cannot be communist.

[Caid Ivik]

*** BEWARE ***

CAID IVIK is repeatedly insulting EDRICO by the same LIE that he is saying right now: that COMMUNISM IS "TOTALITARIAN".

How many times must EDRICO repeat myself?

Communism CANNOT EXIST without democracy.

CAID IVIK should READ The Revolution Betrayed to see why a totalitarian state (like the Soviet Union) CANnot BE COMMUNIST.

[Dante]

Well actually Edric's right. Communism is a democratic system. On paper at least. In practice it's difficult.

[Dunenewt]

Edric made that quote in his first post up surely because why does it say the Reichstag fire of 1993??

And USA will not create anything similar to the Third Reich only in Edric's deluded little mind where he think he is right and everyone else who realises how wrong he is, is evil

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Edric made that quote in his first post up surely because why does it say the Reichstag fire of 1993??

And USA will not create anything similar to the Third Reich only in Edric's deluded little mind where he think he is right and everyone else who realises how wrong he is, is evil

We call that a point of view, I consider the Americans evil.

And what do you know about the president, what do I know about the president?

Everything could be possible and I think Bush is evil and just want more power by 'acting' like Hitler.

Diplomacy/Military at the same time.

"Those who are American have freedom!" Sounds more like Hitler's

"We Germans are superior! Blond blue eyed men are true Germans, super humans"

Edit: Yes, but how Capitalism and the other Western nations abuse the ideology 'Democracy' is just outrageous.

[Edric O]

Edric made that quote in his first post up surely because why does it say the Reichstag fire of 1993??

And USA will not create anything similar to the Third Reich only in Edric's deluded little mind where he think he is right and everyone else who realises how wrong he is, is evil

Huh? WHAT are you talking about? ???

The fact that the quote says "1993" instead of "1933" is a typo anyone can make. And for your information, the quote is from THIS ARTICLE.

Also, just WTF are you on about with the USA? This topic is about Germany in the early 1930's. America has nothing to do with it!

You have a very wild imagination, Dunenewt...

[Dude_Doc]

"Those who are American have freedom!" Sounds more like Hitler's

"We Germans are superior! Blond blue eyed men are true Germans, super humans"

LoL. Where exactly did Bush say that? And, to correct you, you had to be a German citizen since 1925 (don't remember the exact year), to stay in Germany at that time.

But, that aside, Bush did in fact say this:

"Freedom is not Americas gift to the world, it is God's gift to mankind."