World Government: good or bad?

[Dude_Doc]

No really. Of every alien, technology, language and everything else in "the world of Sci-Fi", isn't it possible that at least one of those things exists in our universe?

[Acriku]

Sure it's possible, but there's no evidence to believe in any of it.

[nemafakei]

We'll deal with the aliens when the arrive - let's concentrate on how to govern ourselves first, shall we?

Anyone like to say what they mean by democracy, yet?

[Dude_Doc]

We'll deal with the aliens when the arrive - let's concentrate on how to govern ourselves first, shall we?

Naturally.

Besides, why do some of tax-payers money go to places like SETI and other search for aliens? I mean, they haven't found the smallest voice out there, so why let them continue? Yes, okay, maybe it is like saying "scientists have worked to get a cure for AIDs for years, but no success, so why let them continue", but I mean, like Nema said: let's consentrate on our own race, on Mother Earth, before we start looking for ET's...

[Acriku]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/103574_cspace10.shtml

Seems NASA did stop funding to the SETI project, but Allen (director of research at SETI) provided the funding.

[Caid Ivik]

We'll deal with the aliens when the arrive - let's concentrate on how to govern ourselves first, shall we?

Anyone like to say what they mean by democracy, yet?

That's a good point. I was rather waiting for such. Anyway, why should we question democracy? Today's system of philosophical plurality is the only succesful, so why should we experiment with something else? Many different parties, parliament and one president or king with representative function.

[Edric O]

Because today's system is FAILING, Caid. Mainstream political parties have no real differences between them, politicians represent the interests of transnational corporations rather than the interests of the people, and nearly half the population of most countries doesn't even bother to vote any more!

Representative democracy is about to die. We can either find a better system to replace it, or let things run their course and end up in corporate fascism.

[Caid Ivik]

If you think so... But I still don't see any sign of failure. Read programmes of parties, which you vote. They are different, altough there is no fanatical grouping to Communistic Party, Capitalist Party and Theocratic Party.

[Egeides]

Caid, they have different people, and they have basically similar directions just diffeent ways. Since a long time some are complaining Canada's parties are basically all the same, so it doesn't let you alot of choice if you aren't centered-right... Same for USA, same for many others I guess.

[Edric O]

Caid, maybe you don't see it yet in Slovakia, because your democracy is still young. But it's all over America and Western Europe, and to a lesser extent even here in Romania.

The differences between political parties have almost completely dissapeared. They all follow the same center-right ideology. The people have lost all faith in the democratic process and feel powerless to change anything. That's why less and less of them actually go to vote. Representative democracy is falling apart.

And look at all the fascist/racist groups gaining popularity in Western Europe. Jorg Heider in Austria, Jean-Marie Le Pen in France, the BNP in Britain, the party of Pim Fortuyn (can't remember the party's actual name) in Holland...

It's like the 1920's all over again. Except that the 1920's saw a rise in support for both the extreme left and the extreme right. Now it's just the extreme right running the show.

[Dude_Doc]

Still don't believe in conspiracies? ::)

[Egeides]

Caid, maybe you don't see it yet in Slovakia, because your democracy is still young. But it's all over America and Western Europe, and to a lesser extent even here in Romania.

The differences between political parties have almost completely dissapeared. They all follow the same center-right ideology. The people have lost all faith in the democratic process and feel powerless to change anything. That's why less and less of them actually go to vote. Representative democracy is falling apart.

And look at all the fascist/racist groups gaining popularity in Western Europe. Jorg Heider in Austria, Jean-Marie Le Pen in France, the BNP in Britain, the party of Pim Fortuyn (can't remember the party's actual name) in Holland...

It's like the 1920's all over again. Except that the 1920's saw a rise in support for both the extreme left and the extreme right. Now it's just the extreme right running the show.

The extremes perhaps have a reason: the economy and other things are going not extremely well. Many feel menaced and thus see the moderated views as inefficient in front of a non-moderate threat. Like it was the case in some other countries before.

[Caid Ivik]

Well, EdricO, in France, Germany, Sweden, Bohemia, Poland and Britain are now ruling middle-left parties. Fact they tolerate free market doesn't mean they are on the right side. Instead of USA, where is everything placed on hard-middle Republicans and Democrats (altough both sometimes lose the balance), all western democratic countries have many different parties.

About nationalistic demagogues like Fortuyn (who named even his party from himself) or Haider, I would say, that they aren't worth of lowering democracy because of them. Extremists were and will be. There are many parties sympathizing with Stalin, like Ziuganov's commie party, or CPs in Moldavia, Czech Republic. In Moldavia they even took the government.

[Edric O]

That depends on what you mean by "middle-left", Caid. In theory, Britain's Labour Party is also on the left. But in practice, they're just as rightist as the Tories.

As for those pathetic stalinists, they're just pale shadows of their former selves. They don't even bother following the communist economic system any more. They've basically turned into capitalist social democrats.

[Caid Ivik]

Capitalistic social democrats? What you have fully lost some political mind? Have you ever heard words like "compromise", "non-violent agreement", "peace" or "gentle politics"? Western world is called civilised, because we lack fanatism, not everyone wants to die for his thoughts.

[Dude_Doc]

That depends on what you mean by "middle-left", Caid. In theory, Britain's Labour Party is also on the left. But in practice, they're just as rightist as the Tories.

Is it because Blair supported Bush in the Iraq conflict?

[Edric O]

Is it because Blair supported Bush in the Iraq conflict?

No, it has nothing to do with that!

It's just that all the people I know and who live in Britain are telling me that the Labour Party is nearly as right-wing as the Tories these days.

Capitalistic social democrats? What you have fully lost some political mind? Have you ever heard words like "compromise", "non-violent agreement", "peace" or "gentle politics"? Western world is called civilised, because we lack fanatism, not everyone wants to die for his thoughts.

No, the western world is only called "civilized" because we gave that name to ourselves, at about the same time when we were mercilessly slaughtering millions of Africans, Asians, and Native Americans.

I'm not against compromise, but the social democrats compromise far too much. They're too afraid to lose their wealth and priviledges, so they joined the capitalists instead of fighting against them.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

The western world is civilized, they kill the enemy with their 'pinky' straight up. ;D

But with humanity, they don't deserve the word 'civilized'

The western world and the whole world are still barbarians, barbarians in the modern age.

These barbarians has some limits though, a nation cannot declare war on a other nation since it would 'cause' peace demostrations.

[Anathema]

It's just that all the people I know and who live in Britain are telling me that the Labour Party is nearly as right-wing as the Tories these days.

I've been on a vacation to England recently and most of the people I spoke of wouldn't agree with you, and nor do I.

Maybe this is just typical for the kind of people you talk to ;)

[Edric O]

Okay, now I'm confused... ???

(and no, despite what you might think, I did NOT get these informations about New Labour being center-right from British communists)

Edit: Can any of the Brits on this forum clear it up for us? What kind of measures has the Labour Party adopted recently?

[Dude_Doc]

The western world is civilized, they kill the enemy with their 'pinky' straight up.

But with humanity, they don't deserve the word 'civilized'

The western world and the whole world are still barbarians, barbarians in the modern age.

These barbarians has some limits though, a nation cannot declare war on a other nation since it would 'cause' peace demostrations.

Is rage everything you can come up with?

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Yes, face reality boy. ???

[Dude_Doc]

Yes, face reality boy.

That would be "mister", thank you. ;)

[nemafakei]

Labour has, for 9 months, been repeatedly rejecting firefighters' claims for more money. Their relationships with unions has serverely broken down.

They have recently introduced 'top-up' tuition fees for universities.

The Labour government has been almost totally centralised. The Millbank Machine seems to be more in control than the Houses of Parliament.

Those are not, as far as I'm aware, left-wing.

The Lib Dems are now easily the most left wing major party in the UK. They used to be direct centre, between Labour and the Tories.

[Caid Ivik]

So, when Blair found it is better to show might of the British Empire to Iraq... Anyway, from when is a firefightning a profession? ???