Scary racist site

TMA_1 · July 3, 2003

Isnt national socialism and communism one in the same. ;)

dont kill me edric! lol

Caid Ivik · July 3, 2003

Not exactly, TMA. Communism is for all, nazism "benefits" only one nation. But as we saw, it had same results ;D

Navaros · July 3, 2003

The fact is such things exist and will be seen whether you want them to or not. You can either ignore them at your own peril, or bring them out in the open, in all their ugliness for criticism.

As i said, what you're doing is a thinly-veiled attempt to promote Racist sites. I'd wager you are in fact Racist and affiliated with those very sites.

what you've done in this thread is the equivalent of going to the Emperor Board, posting links to sites where you can get an Emperor CDKEY Generator, and then saying in the post: "do not go to these sites! they are promoting

warezing Emperor, and warez is wrong!"

if you did *that*, the Mods would have Dungeonized your thread in two seconds flat. i find it hypocritical that the Mods allow you to do an equivalent thing here on the Poli board.

Acriku · July 3, 2003

Is anybody compelled to go to the sites Phage listed to get something out of it, like you would a cd key generator website?

Edric O · July 4, 2003

I'm compelled to hire a hacker to get that trash off the internet, but that's just me. ;)

Isnt national socialism and communism one in the same.
dont kill me edric! lol

TMA, I know you meant that as a joke, but it's really in bad taste... especially seeing how Caid takes it seriously...

Nazism was based on social darwinism. To a communist, and indeed to ANY left-winger, social darwinism is THE incarnation of evil... It's jungle law being used in human society. It lowers human beings to the level of animalistic killing machines.

Not exactly, TMA. Communism is for all, nazism "benefits" only one nation. But as we saw, it had same results.

Caid, you're hopeless. No matter what I do and no matter the historical facts I show you, nothing can get through your rock-hard stubbornness. Trying to reason with you is like trying to reason with a wall.

Read some Marx, and then read some Nietzche. Compare them. Do they have the slightest thing in common? No, they are polar opposites. Just like Communism and Nazism are polar opposites.

You remind me of a certain quote, Caid:

"A leader of genius must have the ability to make different enemies appear as if they belong to the same category."

- Adolf Hitler

I guess he would have been proud of you...

Well while I myself and not a communist or socialist, I'm glad they are arguing with the WN's. Being "anti's".
And don't fret it. Perhaps you guys look like you don't have success, and the bigoted shouts seem to indicate. But if you argue well enough you will slowly effect their morale, slowly start planting doubts and sway people on the sidelines, confused types that are uncertain and would otherwise only hear one side on the issues.

Thank you. :) It's nice to know that we're not alone... Well, the vast majority of people are on our side when it comes to WN's, but so few of them ever speak out...

And the problem is that whatever we say gets immediately swamped by flames and hate-filled posts. And that doesn't happen only to us. There was once a Jew who went there to ask them what had he ever done to them to make them hate him so much. Poor guy... They treated him like dirt. :(

Caid Ivik · July 4, 2003

EdricO. First you should really read some Marx too. I see that you have NO idea what does the social darwinism mean, because if you had, you wouldn't write such nonsense. Nazism is based on natural evolution, communism on social evolution. Change your teacher, because it seems he does not know even the basics.

Edric O · July 4, 2003

You'd say anything just for the sake of contradicting me, wouldn't you?

Here's a description of what social darwinism is and where it came from. More can be found by simply searching "social darwinism" on Google. You'll even find a dictionary definition!

But I'm giving it 10 to 1 odds that you won't even read that short article before writing your reply.

ken124578 · July 4, 2003

I would really appreciate it if the people visiting my site would please keep this in mind, if your thoughts towards me are as sick, and vile as some people, please keep them to yourself. After all, I am only fourteen years old and I really do not need your hateful thoughts in my head.

::)

That's like... i can kill your mother but you can't do anything against me because i'm 14. ::)

Caid Ivik · July 4, 2003

Why looking for such things on site named "Social Justice"? Read the part named "Human Nature", where in part of Smith's theory sees the author only that classical communist upper thinking about human greediness and selfishness. I like the main question of discussion: "Assume that I am a pure capitalist. I have no other philosophical beliefs except the notion of human selfishness as the paramount emotion. Is it possible for me to also hold a conception of social justice?" Sorry, but take a dictionary for serious and objective descriptions of the word. Hardcore communists aren't best sources of objectivity. It is nice, how he tries to compare american lust for success with nazistic eugenics program, but for me, it makes me just laugh. Eugenics isn't about social evolution, it was based on biology, or better, racial pseudobiology. Marx showed some form of social evolution too, what hasn't that honor to be mentioned there. Marx' theory of logical revolution is closer to Hegel and his historical predestination, but if I compare it with racism, it has many mutual points. Read 1984. It will help you.

I'm giving it 100 to 1 odds that you won't even read that short article before writing your reply.

Edric O · July 5, 2003

I'm sorry, Caid, but I won't let you completely change the subject like that. I showed you one article on a site in order to back up what I had said earlier, and you completely ignored it (and our whole argument) and started talking about another article on that site!

Not to mention how you call every site that doesn't agree with you "communist". What is this, some sort of new McCarthyism? News flash: Not everyone who opposes your extreme right-wing views is a communist, Caid. There are such things as "liberalism" and "social democracy" in this world.

Listen, Caid, I'm tired of arguing against a wall. If you insist on claiming that a theory which says that all human beings (regardless of race, gender, nationality or religion) are EQUAL has points in common with something like racism, then the problem is yours, not mine.

Phage · July 5, 2003

I'd wager you are in fact Racist and affiliated with those very sites.

WTF? Ok, I am a Japanese-Mexican-Euromut mix, so I guess I must then be a pro-Japanese, Mexican, Euromut racist---what in the heck kind of racist is that? What racist group do you think I wish to join?

You should seriously be careful about who you call racist. Something besides this shanty "what if" evidence is required.

That's like if you criticized child molestors, showing a sick board they frequent and my response was "you're a child molestor".

The Skeptic's Society confronts and exposes holocaust deniers too, that mean they have Nazi sympathies?

Seriously Navaro, that was uncalled for.

what you've done in this thread is the equivalent of going to the Emperor Board, posting links to sites where you can get an Emperor CDKEY Generator, and then saying in the post: "do not go to these sites! they are promoting
warezing Emperor, and warez is wrong!"

No, actually the WN is about ideas, bad ideas that I know beforehand nobody save someone already a racist will take seriously, and will in fact make it less popular. I mean do you seriously think someone but a hardcore crypto-nazi racist will approve of a plot to wipe out the Jews?

It's not the same as recieving access to a free product. You very much need to work on your analogies.

I mean CD-Key Generator....White Nationalists who dream of genocide....no different. ::)

Phage · July 5, 2003

Nazism was based on social darwinism.

No it wasn't, social darwinism was a theory created by Herbert Spencer to support some sort of social, metaphysical evolution and extreme capitalism. Nazism was about state power, socialism, and the perservation of "German culture."

Caid Ivik · July 7, 2003

Nazism as racial theory (not political) is based on classic, biological, darwinism. Well, to be sure, its perverted form. No real genetical differences between races were found. Hitler just haven't seen a difference between words like "species" and "race". Social evolution, as described by Marx and Engels, is very like Kant's talking about evil chaotic nature from right view, or Hegel's flow of history.

I'm sorry, Caid, but I won't let you completely change the subject like that. I showed you one article on a site in order to back up what I had said earlier, and you completely ignored it (and our whole argument) and started talking about another article on that site!
Not to mention how you call every site that doesn't agree with you "communist". What is this, some sort of new McCarthyism? News flash: Not everyone who opposes your extreme right-wing views is a communist, Caid. There are such things as "liberalism" and "social democracy" in this world.
Listen, Caid, I'm tired of arguing against a wall. If you insist on claiming that a theory which says that all human beings (regardless of race, gender, nationality or religion) are EQUAL has points in common with something like racism, then the problem is yours, not mine.

Well, it looks like I've won this bet. You've read first 2-3 lines and then quickly hit the reply button. Read the next half, where I try to describe the things forgotten in that article. I don't want to change subject, it is very interesting theme, so please don't torpedo it with your pathetic phrases.

You don't call yourself a social democrat. In your so-loved compass you were 9.95 on the left, I think. It makes you a confusion, because you are also a christian. You want to stay in one hard view, and when someone tries to compare leftist and rightist totalities, you are angered. I haven't created it, but nazism IS limited (national) socialism.

People are equal, but not same. That's why your communism is utopia. Where you see racism, I don't know.

Edric O · July 14, 2003

Guys, why are you under the impression that strong state power is somehow an element of socialism? (or worse, that this thing alone is enough to make a country "socialist"?) As a matter of fact, it isn't. The notion of an all-powerful state existed long before modern socialism/communism, or even capitalism! It was Louis XIV of France who first said "L'

Edric O · July 14, 2003

This is pretty big, so I thought it deserved a separate post...

The clearest proof of the nazis' hatred for socialism and the left wing in general was their treatment of the socialists within their own ranks: the SA brown shirts. In particular, I must remind you of the event known as "The Night of the Long Knives".

The Night of the Long Knives

The four million brown shirted Nazi storm troopers, the SA (Sturmabteilung), included many members who actually believed in the 'socialism' of National Socialism and also wanted to become a true revolutionary army in place of the regular German Army.

But to the regular Army High Command and its conservative supporters, this potential storm trooper army represented a threat to centuries old German military traditions and the privileges of rank. Adolf Hitler had been promising the generals for years he would restore their former military glory and break the "shackles" of the Treaty of Versailles which limited the Army to 100,000 men and prevented modernization.

For Adolf Hitler, the behavior of the SA was a problem that now threatened his own political survival and the entire future of the Nazi movement.

The anti-capitalist, anti-tradition sentiments often expressed by SA leaders and echoed by the restless masses of storm troopers also caused great concern to big industry leaders who had helped put Hitler in power. Hitler had promised them he would put down the trade union movement and Marxists, which he had done. However, now his own storm troopers with their talk of a 'second revolution' were sounding more and more like Marxists themselves. (The first revolution having been the Nazi seizure of power in early 1933.)

The SA was headed by Ernst R

Caid Ivik · July 14, 2003

Jesus an anarchist? He respected secular authority. He was a priest, your misunderstandings reminds me of Jn 3,12. People were (I can say still are) seeking only earthly benefits of his words. I would say all his preaching were about respect: first commandement to authority of God, second to respect for society with its properties. Revolution isn't way to show a respect.

Well, no political system was artificially created, set by a revolution with succesful, utopical end. Always was created totalitarian system, maybe trying to make the world better, but leading nations to hell. And I don't think now about ZSSR, look at i.e. french jacobians.

Please, don't call me an enemy. Or do you agree with totalitarian equality of enemy and opposition?

Edric O · July 14, 2003

Jesus an anarchist? He respected secular authority. He was a priest, your misunderstandings reminds me of Jn 3,12. People were (I can say still are) seeking only earthly benefits of his words. I would say all his preaching were about respect: first commandement to authority of God, second to respect for society with its properties. Revolution isn't way to show a respect.

When did I ever say He was an anarchist? What I said what that if Jesus lived today, He would be considered a communist or maybe an anarcho-communist. That's VERY different from what you seem to have understood...

Of course Jesus was a pacifist, and a violent revolution is definately NOT something He would get involved in. But that doesn't change the fact that He DID teach people to live as brothers and sisters, to cast aside material wealth, to help the poor, etc. Today, these are all communist ideals.

Well, no political system was artificially created, set by a revolution with succesful, utopical end.

Oh yes it was. The system called MODERN DEMOCRACY was born out of the American and French revolutions.

Please, don't call me an enemy. Or do you agree with totalitarian equality of enemy and opposition?

As a matter of fact, I hadn't even noticed that I {indirectly} called you an enemy until you drew my attention to it... I probably just used that word by mistake, and because it doesn't really sound all that "harsh" to me... Well, anyway, I'm sorry about that.

Caid Ivik · July 14, 2003

Considering the Sturm Ableitung, world's greatest street-fightning band ever, as anticapitalistic is nice, but I think their social feel was limited on cost of bayern beer... However, the "Red Front" vandals were primary target of their skirmishes. That reminds me their well-known marschlied:

Die Fahne hoch

Die Reihen fest geschlossen

S.A. marschiert

Mit ruhig festem Schritt

Kam'raden die Rotfront

Und Reaktion erschossen

Marschier'n im Geist

In unsern Reihen mit

Edric O · July 14, 2003

Hey, I never defended the SA nazi scum. Just pointed out that Hitler was more than willing to have them slaughtered when they were starting to get too left-wing for his taste (and when he no longer had any use for them).

And by fighting the SA, those Red Front "vandals" were actively putting their lives on the line to fight nazism, in a time when your beloved capitalist conservatives (such as Von Papen) considered Hitler their best friend.

Edit: Btw, did you really have to post that nazi song?

Caid Ivik · July 14, 2003

That's SA song, to be sure. Just for you to know. I have it as a MP3 too, if you want ;D According to Albert Speer's book In the Heart of the Third Empire, Ernst Rohm was considered as Hitler's closest friend. However, he lost his reputation, when he was unable to stop his ravaging bands, when Hitler came to power. Like today's Arafat, it is just a matter of time, when he will be shot by abbasists too. Terrorists and street fighters make only mess, chaos, no fight for power. Anarchy scares the people, as well as government under pressure of hands behind those madmen. SA made much "work" in taking the rule, I don't have to explain. But then, they were just making mess - is that "leftism"?

Edric O · July 14, 2003

Well, looks like we need to celebrate! For the first time in recent history, I actually agree with you! :)

Being a violent street thug has nothing to do with any political views. It's neither "leftist" nor "rightist" - you are right about this.

Certainly, the SA hated leftists (and actually killed a lot of them, too). Calling the SA themselves anything even remotely close to "leftist" would have probably caused them to come by your house for a not-so-friendly visit... So I suppose it would be better to say that the SA were "less rightist" than Hitler, and disliked his alliance with the conservatives.

Acriku · July 14, 2003

Sure we could get back ontopic, but then that would ruin the fun wouldn't it?

nampigai · July 14, 2003

I can say something ontopic, i found the site one of the most dis tastefull sites I ever seen. They lack all human feeling, and I feel embareced that they belong to the same species as I do. (maybe the don't)

Caid Ivik · July 14, 2003

Well, NaMpIgAi, that's racistic, what you've said ;D But whatever, you may dislike it, but still it is no reason to call them beasts. Sooner or later, they will find their mistakes, at least in deep soul.

nampigai · July 15, 2003

call it what you want I do not like extremists I don't care from what wing they come from, the fact that they (nazis) see's themself as

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