A Dune RPG

[THE AQIB]

Well I have decide after my present project I shall begin a Dune based RPG..

This post shall be used for discussing everything about it..

Here are people needed for this..

Story/Plot maker..

Artist/Sprite maker..

Music/Remix maker..

Voice actors if we want to..

For other stuff I'll update this first post..

Basically the Dune RPG must follow the timeline of or near the timeline of Dune games..

We can play with only one character..

For now three vehicles can be driven..

What kind of RPG should it be??

Open type, Story driven, Grape vine..

What about houses??

What kind of soldier are we??

Can player choose his type of soldier and team??

What vehicles can we drive??

For other stuff I'll update this first post..

[Luminar]

3D RPG?

[MrFlibble]

Basically the Dune RPG must follow the timeline of or near the timeline of Dune games..

By "Dune games", do you mean Westwood's RTS, or Cryo's Dune and Frank Herbert's Dune?

I kind of expected a Dune RPG to closely follow the novels...

[X3M]

Well, if you are going to follow the novels.

 

The missions should take place in the time between the landing in the palace and the ending of the duke.

 

You can be either Atreides or Harkonnen. Mostly you work alone.

It would be a bit in the style of Renegade. But then with the shield and swords/knifes.

Other options are lasguns and shock waves.

 

Possible missions:

You might have an escort mission though.

Or assassination of a somewhat important person.

 

But I think AQIB wants to aim for something that looks like the version from Final Warriors Productions. Right?

[shai]

If it's an RPG then it should probably follow the books. 

[shai]

AQIB, which RPG Maker do you have? Does anyone else here have it?

[THE AQIB]

I use RPG Maker VX Ace..

Well only Atriedes and Harkonnen??

Lets say it should follow novels..

Build the story on it..

Well I've not read all of the novels..

All in all which planets to include in it??

Can you guys breif me the story??

I have only the first novel I bought few months ago..

Usual 2d rpg..

[THE AQIB]

anyone??

[Luminar]

2D is perfect for RTS games, but I don't really like 2D RPGs, except if they are very funny and good games.

[X3M]

I think he meant in the style of final fantasy.

Any way, some notes here.

 

You know, if some one here was good enough to build up a RTS from notching. It would not matter how bad the graphics are etc.

 

It is the game play that counts any way.

And some RPG are in a RTS setting. Warcraft 3 has a big part of RPG possibilities. Thus having even less base building and army building, but more XP grinding and skill building. That too serves to be a good RPG.

 

There where many starcraft maps that where build into RPG's too. And that game was almost 2D entirely.

In an unfinished attempt back then. I had created a RPG for 6 players to play. They could choose out of 18 different characters (all balanced). They could move to little towns and take over temporary a building to do their upgrades. There where only damage and armor upgrades though. In the same town, they could get quests in the same towns too.

 

I quit this map since it was a hell of work. Further I only had 2 missions finished and the map was already filled. With 4 towns, I was sure that I needed more ground. To have a proper RPG, we need a lot of ground between towns. And you want your character to fight only 1 to 3 entities at a time. So they where needed to be spread out.

 

But then again. For a RPG to work, the player has to follow paths with corners that contain RPG elements like a surprise attack etc. In a big dessert, there aren't really paths to take.

[THE AQIB]

Well there can be..

A nice plot is needed..

Fremen can be an awesome base for storyline..

My original idea was to allow player to customise all his details..

Name, Look, House etc..

We start up as a soldier in the army of our chosen house..

First missions will stay same as the original rts games but have rpg elements added to it..

Surprise around every corner..

But as the player grows his rank he can control his own team..

Then comes the major twists and turns in the story..

And finally end epically as per the player's choices..

We have access to drive trikes or fly an ornithopter..

Battles can be with one player only in the beginning..

But you can add players to your team through in game choices..

Like if you support Fremen you'll get a Fedaykin as allied team member.. Or if you support Emperor you'll get a Sardaukar as allied team member..

Instead of vast maps we can reproduce the original maps from Dune games+ Dune TV/Film/Book series..

Hence dividing maps and decreasing the load..

How is the idea I present??

When I get more I'll write down..

[X3M]

Your idea's always sound good.

Now for some random idea's. Let me know what you think.

 

---

 

This would be a fine opportunity to have several different infantry/trooper armor types.

And based on the skill that a player has, he/she can increase his/her health.

The player should be an unique element that can have any infantry armor layered on top of each other. (Unreal had kevlar, armor, shield, tied pads, special shield active at the same time)

 

Of course vehicles have a totally different range of armor types as well. But the player should be able to upgrade the vehicles that he/she owns. (Blingbling tanks etc. :) )

 

What kind of health/damage ratio are you thinking of with 1 on 1 fights?

8? 10? 20?

 

What kind of infantry armor are there?

Infantry? Trooper? Personal Shields? Dessert Suit? Mecha Suit?

 

Each with some "unique" properties:

- Where Infantry and Trooper are both basic types. The trooper has more armor and the player looks more like one of star wars.

- Personal Shields can have auto regeneration without the need of medical stuff in your inventory.

- Dessert Suit can supply a player with new water. So the stock of water in your inventory doesn't get depleted so fast. About -50%?

- And the Mecha Suit turns the player in a "cyborg" type. Well, it is just an addition to all the other armor types. The Mecha Suit requires repairs by mechanical stuff in your inventory. The same that you use in vehicles. The fun thing though is that you still can move around as if you are a soldier. If you think mathematically about it, this is again a basic type.

 

How would combat go?

A player has all armor types, but by selecting the upgrades during the game. The player specializes in a certain area.

When taking damage, the bullet/cannon/flame or whatever randomly determines what type is hit. And then damages that part.

If a part is damaged, the chance of that part being hit again becomes less. If all parts are gone, the player dies. Game Over!

 

For example, if a player has 12 Infantry parts and 4 Trooper parts, There is a 75% chance that the Infantry part is hit. It doesn't matter what kind of weapon it is. The damage is dealt to the Infantry part. If the Infantry part dies out, it isn't smart to be facing cannons. Since cannons do less against Infantry then against troopers. And if the trooper part is the majority. A cannon does much more damage.

A weapon like a Sniper exists out of lets say 12 bullets in one. Thus with one shot, it is determined 12 times what parts are hit. There is 100% damage against the infantry parts, but only 25% against trooper parts. Thus a player that specializes in being infantry, dies faster against snipers.

 

Of course you could keep the damage constant. If a sniper has 12 bullets in one, it is 12 damage. But a trooper part has 4 health before it becomes deactivated.

 

By anticipating the quests/missions that you will do, you can specialize first. Of course a player could mix up his/her soldier, but then the missions would be harder in a way. By using extra allies, this is again reduced. Since every ally is a specialist.

If a mission requires you to deal with a Sniper, then you get mecha parts. Only 4% damage remains if a mecha part is hit.

[THE AQIB]

@X3M : So you will do all the formulae??

I have less knowledge on them..

Yoir idea has some sense in it..

Although it's not all formulas..

I shall write down your ideas..

:-)

[X3M]

I am a balancing guy. I don't know to program. But I do have idea's on how to calculate things.

 

And some how I like this project. I can throw with a lot of ideas here.

 

So is it going to be 2D or 3D?

I mostly picture 2D rts. But for 3D there are no additions needed from my formula part.

 

And did you like the 5 armor types for the player? If you know of more types, let me know.

 

I don't know if you want units like the minotaur. Which would be cool if the player faces like 3 of them and still comes out victorious :D. Due to the proper use of armor and weaponry. Yes, the first prototypes would be like end bosses. But later on they are fodder just as much :) (Unreal reference)

 

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Vehicles will only provide the player with extra range and speed. The vehicle will also act as a nutshell. Once gone, the player is on foot again. But not likely weak. Instead, I think that players will like it that they can continue to upgrade their soldier to a god like entity.

 

Allies in combat; the player should choose to use them as meat (lower morale over time), or have them support you (higher morale over time). As meat, they eventually die. Unless the morale becomes to low and they simply abandon you. (To get them to die, you need to take bullets from time to time so their morale becomes higher again)

 

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And if a player has a rough feel of how much they are worth (power level, or credits) than they really will love it to compare themselves to other units in the game.

 

For example,

The player starts as an Infantry unit. Armor 1, health 8,

weapon rifle; damage 1, fire speed 100%

range and speed are 2.

This start is worth 100 credits.

 

The player spends XP and buys upgrades.

XP on being an infantry unit. 4 times.

Buys 2 trooper components.

spends XP and buys upgrades for the rifle; rifle has now a grenade launcher and fires 50% faster.

Armor 1, health 12 (12 parts),

Armor 4, health 8 (2 parts),

weapon rifle; damage 1, fire speed 150%

grenade launcher (fires at the same time on the target); damage 4, fire speed 100%

range and speed are still 2.

The game tells the player that he now equals an unit worth 275 credits.

 

It doesn't mean that he/she is better than cheaper units, cheaper units come in numbers any way. And "this" grenade launcher is only 25% effective against infantry.

 

The player could leave equipment at home and can also carry only 1 or 2 weapons. Depending on their skill level, they can carry more equipment. So where the player has 1 big weapon, he/she could also carry 2 or 3 smaller weapons.

For a weapon to have multiple tasks, you need to upgrade it like the grenade launcher attachment (COD reference).

 

Anyway, before a mission starts, the player can have a good feeling of how much he is going to be worth in the mission by selecting what he needs. He also then knows what more upgrades would be necessary since the power indicator is a balanced number.

 

---

 

O well, these are some idea's worked out further.

I would love to calculate stuff for you. Just tell me what you need.

 

I think that if the player is a Mercenary,

 

he/she could carry out quests/missions for any house. This way you create only one game, which makes it easier on your part. The story would be that no ones knows your face. But you are the son/daughter of a legend. That is why they want to buy you. And the better you are, the more they offer for carning out missions. A cool thing to this would be that some houses can be ignored, offering you only 200 credits at first for a simple mission. But if the mission is still there while you have done 5 missions for an opposing house. The offering could have increased to for example 500 credits. +150% for a simple mission is certainly worth the time. Of course there is a sudden decline in the offering since a mission might not be needed any more.

 

If you have for example have completed a mission to assassinate someone. Then the mission to protect that same person becomes null. Since that person is dead.

 

Thought of a name for the game?

 

Dune: The Mercenary

 

Or would that be to obvious?

[THE AQIB]

A mercanary eh..??

Sounds good..

Well if we make this game the vanilla engine has to be modded a lot..

I guess we should give the game for free??

Vehicle battles are an awesome idea..

I need to check out scripts for that..

It's a 2d game..

Check out my present game..

http://www.rpgmakervxace.net/topic/24703-kid-sherlock-unnamed-project/

But ours should be lot different..

How about a day and night system??

Name is too obvious..

We'll keep that for later..

For now we'll call It "Project Mercenary"..

I can't begin making it now due to Contest going on..

And it'll be sometime before I can start of as I have first year college and we can't have a laptop in college in the first year..

Saturday and Sunday I can spare as i'll be back home..(Sometimes)

We'll keep this discussion on till we got a prettey neat idea for Dune RPG..

For now it seems we have me, shai-gel98 and X3M excited about the project more..

We will need more minds to build the story and RPG frame for the game..

And I know some guys here also are good at other stuff like BGM, Art, etc..

It'll be a fed2k forum initiative when we have all together..

[X3M]

The game has to be free any way.

 

2D will be making things easier for me.

How is the grid that we move and/or battle in? Squared, Hexagon or Pixel?

 

Squared follows the basic RTS like Dune2 and Dune2000, Pokemon follows this as well.

Hexagon is used more for D&D style of games, hard to program though. And perhaps the worst of the three for this.

Pixel, most modern RTS games use these. The location of an unit is on 1 pixel, and further than that they have a collision size.

 

Day and night system sounds good. Visions are smaller at night. This allows for certain missions like avoiding guards etc.

 

Is it going to be turn based or real time battle?

 

I don't see the use for speed and range if the battles are taking place in a "room". However, slow moving projectiles might be dodged by fast moving vehicles. That would be about it.

[THE AQIB]

I was thinking of using "battle symphony" script in making all battle related stuff..

It's side view turn based battle system as vanilla engine uses eye sight turn based battle system..

Symphony Engime can be used to create lot of animation chains..

It's turn based..

Check out all RPG Maker VX Ace tutorials to know how it works..

First check out others..

I recommend unpropro on YouTube for advanced ideas..

Also check out "Battle symphony engine RPG Maker VX Ace" in YouTube to see how the battle engine looks..

As the battle engine is highly moddable it ain't that problem..

Sandworms will be easy to create..

We can set the sandworms only to 'walk' on one region number..

We can set many regions as many numbers..

Not just day and night but also weather..

Sand-Storms, Icy-Wind, Burning sun, Fog etc..

Randomize them all..

I need to work on script making or go along with event making for this..

Some will be 1 on 1 like training matches, Us vs the Boss Etc..

Vehicle battles only outside the buildings..

Maybe i'll ask someone to make sky battles only plus point we get to use ornithopters/any other attack planes in battles..

Check out RPG Maker VX ace videos before we continue discussions..

Best wat to understand what i'm saying..

I'll try to get more ideas from friends at the RPG Maker forums..

[X3M]

Looks a lot like pokemon to me. Only viewed from a different angle.

 

Instead of magic points. How about ammunition for each weapon?

 

There is going to be a continues rock/scissor/paper system. But once players know that, most fights will be easy. The hard part will be taking the right weapons and sufficient ammo.

There is room for randomness. I am thinking 0% to 200% effect.

 

The player should be able to pull up a wall or hide behind debris.

 

---

 

I stated to have a health/damage ratio of 8 with a default of 2 range and 2 speed.

But the range and speed are obsolete in these kind of games. Long ranged units and speed units have no advantage? Byebye Sniper?

 

So for now, this is a problem.

[THE AQIB]

Well ranged units mighy work..

There was a custom script made called row based attacks..

It basically differentiates short range/mid range/long range..

In effect some attacks cannot be executed when in mid range..

Some cannot be executed in long range..

We can use that script for ranged attacks hence sniper.. No bye bye..

Speed can be converted as evasiveness..

That Is the more the speed the more the evasiveness..

I have a lot of custom scripts in mind..

All can complement the original game engine..

Here are some..

Symphony engine : Turns the battle to side view battle with custon attack animations..

Holder's Battlers : Allows us to animate the battlers..Us and enemies..

Victor light module : Gives the torch effect + night scene is easily achivable..

Yanfly's Button Common Events : We can set common events to the buttons we want to..

I'll add more when I have my pc to work on..

[X3M]

Thus having speed as evade power. That can work where fast units have lower speed, but are healed faster as well. Relatively speaking that is.

 

We would have a maximum of speed. Which is 9.

 

8 Health is the default. Speed is 2. The evasion is 20%. (80% hits)

10 Health is for defence structures. Speed is of course 0. The evasion is also 0%. (100% hits)

For each Health reduction of 1, there is 10% evasion.

 

This difference in speed is nice, but has no strategic strong and weak point yet.

 

A unit like the Sniper should have an instant hit any way. Thus very fast infantry units are the first to die against Snipers. But to make it so, the Sniper has the instant hit as advantage, but it should have a disadvantage at the same time.

 

Thus I need to think of a missing link.

 

On the opposite, some units have slow moving projectiles without targeting (mortar and minotaur). These should have twice the disadvantage against fast units, but also twice the advantage against other units.

 

I'll think about it and cook something up.

[THE AQIB]

I think you'll like the database of RPG Maker VX Ace a lot..

It uses a lot of formulas to define all attacks..

I usually use presefined or instant formula..

I'm also running behind schedule on my previous project..

[X3M]

Right. A RPG comes very close to text based games. I have no trouble with the positive and negative effects of more expensive armor and damage. However, I do have a bit of trouble with speed and range. On my board game, they have positive and negative effects like in RTS. But I don't know for the kind of game we are getting together now.

 

So I would like others to suggest anything that speed and range can add to a game that has no real dimensions.

 

Down here I have thought of rules. There is no math in it. So if you like to take a look THE AQIB and give your oppinion about them?

 

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People don't like to die. So why would they die for you? You need to earn that first.

For now, the suggestions of rules regarding morale of your personal army:

• When you get a new helper (any mobile unit, except personal walls), this one has a starting morale of 10 (gameplay needs to direct me in this one, morale is new for me) (Each unit might have its own default).
• If your team mate receives damage (looses one block of health equivalent to armor), -1 morale/block.
• If your team mate, -1 morale for each member remaining in your team.
• If your team mate has 0 morale, the unit leaves your team during combat, -1 morale for each member in your remaining team.
• If your team kills an opponent, +1 morale for each member in your team.
• You can buy morale for each team mate by healing/repairing them or simply buying morale.
• The maximum morale for a team member is infinite.

 

The size of your team is depending on your rank, this includes the player and any other unit, regardless of the worth of that unit:

• Rank 0 = Size 1
• Rank 1-2 = Size 2
• Rank 3-5 = Size 3
• Rank 6-9 = Size 4
• Rank 10-14 = Size 5
• Rank 15-20 = Size 6
• Rank ? = Size ? I think we should allow infinity :)
• And/Or the size of the team is also depending on the size of the units. Where XP is not taken into account. This will provide a chance for having size depending missions and new strategic decisions in mission preparations and army build up. In that case certain rules in this post need to be rewritten a bit. The choice is yours THE AQIB. 

 

Various rules regarding team play and walls (Well, any sort of shield :) ):

• The player can carry 1 deployable wall system or ride one vehicle.
• Each other member can also carry 1 deployable wall system or ride one vehicle.
• Each wall or vehicle counts as 1 extra team mate. Doesn't need morale. And can block projectiles for the player or team member behind it. (Yeah, I think that splash weapons will damage all members, even if one is ordered to take the fire for others, walls and vehicles simply take all damage or reduce it tremendously)
• If a team member leaves due to morale. The wall or vehicle is taken away. (Better switch the men behind the walls/vehicles before a good wall/vehicle is removed from the field)
• If a team member dies. The wall or vehicle is lost in the field. Unless you order another member to take the (perhaps) better and more expensive wall/vehicle instead of the crappy wall/vehicle. Or a wall/vehicle has been destroyed.
• Vehicles with shields still count as 1, lets say they too have dual armor just like the player.

Various rules regarding team play and providing them support:

• The player is responsible in keeping the morale, health and ammunition high for his/her team members.
• If a team member leaves due to low morale, equipment will be left in the home base (so no real losses there). This because the player is the owner.
• Personal armor of the team member however is in ownership of that member. And this is decided by the game how it is kept in condition. Players however can pay for heal treatment or repairs when ordering that team member. (Yes MOM! will take my vitamins now!)
• Team members can, if possible, share ammunition. Only when ordered by the player.
• Team members can, only after a fight, get the order to retreat.
• The player can purchase new weapons, upgrades, walls and vehicles for the team member to use.

In a sense, the team member is a smaller copy of the player. However, the team member has his/her own morale while the player has infinite morale. Or simply hates our game and quits playing. Bummer.

 

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If you have forgotten how damage works in most of my games:

 

Armor and Damage values are compared. The lowest number counts and is subtracted from the health.

The starting health equals 10 (may vary for each game) times with its corresponding armor.

 

Meaning:

1 armor has 10 health and receives 1 damage for each projectile.

4 armor has 40 health and receives 1 or 4 damage for each projectile.

9 armor has 90 health and receives 1, 4 or 9 damage for each projectile.

16 armor has 160 health and receives 1, 4, 9 or 16 damage for each projectile.

etc.

 

1 damage can cause 1 damage for each projectile.

4 damage can cause 1 or 4 damage for each projectile.

9 damage can cause 1, 4 or 9 damage for each projectile.

16 damage can cause 1, 4, 9 or 16 damage for each projectile.

etc.

 

The relatively worth of armor, weapons or ammunition with:

a maximum of 1 armor/damage is 50

a maximum of 4 armor/damage is 100

a maximum of 9 armor/damage is 150

a maximum of 16 armor/damage is 200

etc.

 

With just 2 variables (armor and damage) we get a total of 7 possible strategic (depending) variables for players to consider:

Armor, Health, Damage, damage Multiplier, Costs, Number of units, Size

And we can add:

XP, Upgrades, Rank, Morale

 

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With this math technique we come dangerously close to the C&C style that most Westwood/EA games have.

Without crappy tables or percentages.

 

If you want to have more detailed examples in how combat would occur, please let me know.

 

If you rather have something else, please let me know.

[THE AQIB]

Well i'll be damed..

I am not a technical person so I need time to go through that..

But i have put down a few ideas i have made myself in the past few months..

[X3M]

Just suggestions, notching more.

And it is still very abstract.

[THE AQIB]

Well I habe a few things you might need to know about rpg maker before we can continue.

Basic Vanilla maker is havimg max 4 for party.

And all party members travell in one vehicle..

As far as I have found Mr.Trivel's row script allows us to set two rows in the max..

We can use one row for long-range and the other for short-range and give player to switch between long and short when needed.

And also if we want we can fake vehicle run by each people by changing players mid way through the game maker's inbuilt event maker.

It'll be fake but it'll be close to what we want..

I think i'll make a few demos of the capabilities of the engine while trying out dune elements..

I have a few ideas.

And I also expanded this by opening a topic in rpg maker forums also.

Another thing we'll mostly need is a great artist..

Anyway we can get an artist who has dune running in his blood??