29 replies to this topic

[Gruntlord6]

Quote

which is less? ddr3 cost less than ddr2?

Zotac ZBOX HD-ID11 Review: Next Gen ION is Better & Worse than ION1
Not good news for performance.

Article listing all the new Zotac models being released.
Guess I'll have to wait for big sale in order to decide whether to get one. And whether to get model with no ram/HDD (I'd put in my 60gb vertex SSD and buy 4gb ram), or model that comes with 2gb ram + 160gb HDD.

DDR3 is cheaper as it is mass produced in greater quantinties.
What are you using this net-top for? Browsing? Why does it need that much ram and an ssd? Perhaps you hsould get a Pentium dual-core desktop or Athlon X2

[Andrew]

Quote

DDR3 is cheaper as it is mass produced in greater quantinties.
What are you using this net-top for? Browsing? Why does it need that much ram and an ssd? Perhaps you hsould get a Pentium dual-core desktop or Athlon X2

I'm looking into nettops because they are small, low power (easily portable if needed). It would be running 24/7. I would want 4gb ram because it would all be used. Currently I have 3gb in my desktop and only 36mb is free (which is intentional). 1gb used for OS/apps, and rest is used by cache. With ion nettops first generation ion use shared ram, so if a nettop came with 2gb ram, only 1.5 gb would be available for OS/apps etc, which is too low, which makes 4gb the next step up (and max allowed, 3.5gb available). Ion2 has it's own 512 ddr3 ram, but 2gb ram is still low nowadays for multipurpose machine. Yes my eeebox nettop only has 1gb ram (2gb max) and runs as expected, and it is only used for firefox. Serves its purpose, and replaced a 7 year old tower that used 150 watts (eeebox uses 20 watts, and is perfectly silent compared to old tower and faster).

Currently my desktop is running 24/7 for torrents and other uses (in future probably home server/print server, my eeebox is used as print server currently ie. it accepts all print jobs from both computers). And I'm guessing using 100 watts electricity. nettop would use 20 watts. Save $ on electricity and since I'm in 100 year old house, increase safety. Although I would have to use desktop for anything that required 5.1 sound since I don't have equipment for hdmi or s/pdif 5.1 sound. But that only happens about 1-2 hours per day.

I would put SSD in nettop because it would become my main computer for now, since overall it would be faster than my desktop due to the video card (and I guess ram if I put 4gb ddr3 in it). The HDD that comes with nettops is very slow (50mb/s read/write), of course I would probably get a model that comes with no ram/HDD, such as I the one I linked to for the review or bottom of this post. No point in buying a model, and then having to remove the ram/HDD to be replaced. Most with 2gb ram use 2x1gb ram modules, so if I wanted 4 gb, they'd have to be removed.
I would hook up my 1tb external HDD to the nettop with esata for data. SSD would be for OS/apps.

current ram usage info for my computer:

MemTotal:        3071452 kB
MemFree:           36144 kB
Buffers:          772076 kB
Cached:          1243616 kB
SwapCached:          140 kB
Active:          1392824 kB
Inactive:        1568616 kB
Active(anon):     700836 kB
Inactive(anon):   289832 kB
Active(file):     691988 kB
Inactive(file):  1278784 kB
Unevictable:           0 kB
Mlocked:               0 kB
HighTotal:       2210696 kB
HighFree:          19188 kB
LowTotal:         860756 kB
LowFree:           16956 kB
SwapTotal:        506008 kB
SwapFree:         505868 kB
Dirty:              7620 kB
Writeback:             0 kB
AnonPages:        945704 kB
Mapped:            62040 kB
Slab:              45376 kB
SReclaimable:      25588 kB
SUnreclaim:        19788 kB
PageTables:         5628 kB
NFS_Unstable:          0 kB
Bounce:                0 kB
WritebackTmp:          0 kB
CommitLimit:     2041732 kB
Committed_AS:    1258512 kB
VmallocTotal:     122880 kB
VmallocUsed:       21092 kB
VmallocChunk:      54228 kB
HugePages_Total:       0
HugePages_Free:        0
HugePages_Rsvd:        0
HugePages_Surp:        0
Hugepagesize:       4096 kB
DirectMap4k:       16376 kB
DirectMap4M:      892928 kB

I'm in no rush to buy one, and probably will wait until September when they will be cheaper, and summer is over (30 Celsius heat would be bad for it, forcing me to put it somewheres cool in house). Or buy a new desktop. I won't know until later.

I see nettops as a cheap alternative to full blown desktop (which I already own, so if needed I can always power it on). Not meant to completely replace desktops, but to complement it for common tasks (web browsing, 24/7 operation, light gaming and office productivity, multimedia consumption).

If I buy today, I'm looking at total price of $375.42 (shipping+taxes) for nettop and 4gb ddr3 ram. I already own 60gb ssd. So I'm waiting for price drops or sales. Waiting until most manufacturers come out with ion2 nettops and being sold at most retailers (so better competition with prices). Like I said, no rush.

Looking at my local computer store, the cheapest desktop is $450. processor is nice, 500gb hard drive (don't need), nvidia 6150 (ew that's old), win7 and other basics. Of course buying a new desktop would make my current desktop unusable (no need in running two full desktops). I guess I could sell my current desktop for $100 easily, effectively dropping money spent to $350. Yes I know I can build my own desktop cheaper etc, but not looking into that right now. And of course if I got new desktop, it would still use >=100 watts, be running 24/7, take up space, not easily portable. To make new tower purchase worthwhile I'd be spending at least $600 (even if I built my own).

[Andrew]

About why SSD:

This is my 160gb 5400rpm HDD that is in my eeebox. Which is normal for what is put in nettops and netbooks. Benchmark program used is in Ubuntu 10.04 by default under System->Admin->Disk Utility->


47.8mb/s average read. 18ms latency

This is my 60gb ocz vertex in my main desktop:

221.3 average read. 0.2ms latency.

This is my 1tb 5400rpm WD green drive just for fun:

85.7mb/s average read.

Here's my old 80gb in 7 year old computer:

31.3mb/s average read

My 320gb 7200RPM gets
min 37.2
max 78.5
avg 63.9
access time 13.6 ms

So if you have a nettop/netbook/laptop (anything that comes with cheap 2.5" 5400rpm) and want to give it a huge boost of speed, SSD will do that. I can't imagine using something that only gives 50mb/s when for $100 (30gb SSD) you can increase it to 200mb/s. Quadrupling speed.

To be fair the nettop/netbook HDD speeds start off in the 70mb/s range read. So OS/apps would be installed to that area. As you fill up drive the new stuff would get slower. So a comparison of SSD vs first of HDD is really only 2.8 times faster. Of course not comparing latency/seek times, or random 4k read/write which a SSD does much better in.

[gryphon]

Just so you know. The links to ubuntuforums.org are for registered members only.

[Andrew]

Quote

Just so you know. The links to ubuntuforums.org are for registered members only.

Thanks, I'll repost the links to imageshack.
EDIT:
Links fixed.

[Andrew]

Put my new 60gb vertex into Eeebox tonight. Seems it is limited to SATAI speeds. I installed Ubuntu 10.10 alpha 2. Some things seem faster, such as boot time, and firefox usage.

Here's the benchmark:


Average read rate of 122mb/s
0.2 access time

The old 160gb hdd got 64.3mb/s fastest speed. So SSD is twice as fast.
The eeebox is too old to get the most out of SSD, so I wouldn't recommend putting it in 2009 netbook that uses n270 processor and GMA950 graphics. At least not until prices drop in 1/2 (good 60gb for <=$100)

As far as I know, the newer nettops allow sataII, at least I havn't seen anyone complaining about speeds when they put SSD in it.

[Gruntlord6]

Quote

Put my new 60gb vertex into Eeebox tonight. Seems it is limited to SATAI speeds. I installed Ubuntu 10.10 alpha 2. Some things seem faster, such as boot time, and firefox usage.

Here's the benchmark:


Average read rate of 122mb/s
0.2 access time

The old 160gb hdd got 64.3mb/s fastest speed. So SSD is twice as fast.
The eeebox is too old to get the most out of SSD, so I wouldn't recommend putting it in 2009 netbook that uses n270 processor and GMA950 graphics. At least not until prices drop in 1/2 (good 60gb for <=$100)

As far as I know, the newer nettops allow sataII, at least I havn't seen anyone complaining about speeds when they put SSD in it.

Its most likely because its not necessary for a netop, although im sure enthusiasts who happen to have a nettop want one.

[Andrew]

Today my nettop started going into sleep mode (or maybe suspend/hibernate, I'm not sure on correct definition).
I'll start nettop, everything seems fine, boots into ubuntu 10.04.1, then it will go into sleep mode. power light is flashing. I click on power button to bring out of sleep mode, ubuntu greets me with login screen, but then it will go back into sleep mode within couple seconds, seems random. Sometimes I can make it back into normal ubuntu desktop (maybe 2 seconds at most), then sleep. Or when at login screen, it goes back to sleep.

I updated firmware, no effect. I've tried different plug outlets thinking a power failure/problem with my power bar or plug outlet. Doesn't help (although when I first switch plug outlets in wall it seemed to work, but since then same problem even in same plug outlet).

Not sure what problem is. I've read some posts and people have similar problem, but their problem is they can not even get nettop to BIOS screen. I can go into BIOS and have it sit there with no power off problems.
I tried liveusb of 10.04.1, and same problem so shouldn't be a SSD problem. So now I'm hoping a 10.04.1 problem, even though it has been working fine for a week (I had to abandon 10.10 alphas due to instability in OS). I'm downloading todays ubuntu 10.10 dailylive image. If I have same sleep problem on liveusb, then I guess I should try different linux OS, and after that I'm going to assume definite hardware problem.

Sadly, not worth RMAing, although if a RAM problem I could fix that. Guess I should run ramtest to see if it shows any errors. (running now, so far no errors)
I've already got the 160gb HDD that came with it in external 2.5" case for portable storage. I think it has 1x1gb ram (according to ramtest), which if not faulty could be used in lots of other older laptops. So if motherboard/power failure, at least I should be able to salvage some parts from it. Future Shop had 4gb acer revo on for $370 couple days ago, and I have newegg 4gb nettop build in basket for $400, so can get a replacement nettop that will be 3 times faster than what I got. Was hoping this nettop would last 2 years at least. I've been looking into nettop for myself, but wanting to wait until fall for better prices, and cooler weather so it doesn't heat up any.

Nettop at newegg I'm interested in:
http://www.newegg.ca...N82E16856107072

2x2gb ram I would get (debatable depends on cheapest 2x2gb ram at time of purchase).
http://www.newegg.ca...N82E16820104026

I would put my 60gb ssd into it from current nettop. I'm pretty sure the dual core nettops have SATAII, and thus my SSD would get full 250mb/s speed.
Sadly that nettop model is new, and only at newegg, so price is a bit high, but using newer intel atom processor. Can't find reviews for the product either (other than newegg).

If BIOS and ramtest from 10.04.1 liveusb works with no power failure/sleep, then hopefully just 10.04.1 problem with my hardware. Or some bug/crash that happened and is putting it in a sleep loop. In BIOS it has options for sleep mode. S3, something else and auto. I have on auto I think, and I never changed it before so doubt that is problem, but maybe avert it or prevent from going to sleep?

EDIT:
Also sad is that newegg had barebones atom330+ion +2gb ram nettop for $180 several days ago. Argh, of course mine has to break down after a good sale available.

Attached 4 second video of text that appears when it goes into sleep mode. This was in 10.10 daily. ramtest had no problems.

One problem I've noticed with the nettop in past couple weeks (problems with 10.10 install) was that sometimes the sound would mute and internet disconnect. So possibly a bad wire somewhere cutting power to something on motherboard? Then this causes it to go to sleep? Although the sleep problem was not present in 10.10 install. And 10.04.1 was working fine as far as I know for past several days.

Another symptom is that when it is happening lots, I notice the screen go black for less than an second, but back to normal, then about 4 seconds later I get the text error and it goes to sleep. So I would assume power failure if screen goes almost black, as if it is very quickly dimming (not monitor dimming, but screen output). I don't think it is normal ubuntu dimming when shutting down etc, it is too fast for that.

EDIT:
Still no solution, so I've hooked up my slow but trustworthy 8 year old pentium 4. I attached power meter to monitor watts. Just the tower+mouse+keyboard+wirelessusb (just power cord from tower plugged into it), it used 100 watts at peak, and 60 watts idle. 3 watts when not turned on.

So if nettop has unfixable hardware issue, looks like I'll be using the pentium 4 until a sale on another nettop. Sadly this week two sales went by on nettops, so it could be a week or two for another good sale.

EDIT:
Good news! I installed 10.04.1 onto pentium 4, everything was fine, left on for 1 hour. I installed new kernel, restarted, and upon restarting it went into sleep mode!
So I'm guessing this is some sort of kernel problem/error.
Time to use different distro!

EDIT:
changed keyboard/mouse, and now working ok. So slowy going to add new devices one each day and see which device causes computer to go into sleep mode. I'm guessing it was the 8 year old keyboard.

Attached Files

•  MOV01372.AVI.zip   1.57MB   1 downloads

[Andrew]

Nettops have come a long way since my first post in this thread.
New nettops based upon new AMD chip E-350 (also new chips for netbooks that make them much better).
ZOTAC ZBOX AD02 - example of new nettops. can have 8gb ddr3, SATA6.0, usb3, esata and many other features that make nettops 'good enough' for basic tasks such as web browsing and HTPC. Put one behind a tv to use for netflix or other web based streaming, and should work fine. Attach 1tb hdd via esata if needing storage. Or small 2.5" enclosure if wanting space saving and only usb cord to power.

[Andrew]

Bought myself another nettop today (ordered online).
ZOTAC ZBOX AD02 PLUS
I was wanting the barebones version, but since it would cost $240, and the 2gb+250gb cost $280, the $40 difference meant getting more expensive version (250gb hdd sell for $110 currently, not that I was wanting that). I also bought 1x4gb ram to add to the 2gb.

e-350 processor, specs in link. Plan on using it for web browsing and video playback. Once I get a new tv will hook it up to that. Trying to get parents hooked on watching videos (tv shows etc) on it so we can cancel satellite (which is crazy expensive).

Once I get new SSD, I'll put one of my 60gb vertex1 into nettop.

My old nettop I'll probably keep as is for now until new one up and running and get print server and LAN connection with main computer.

Black friday/cyber monday deals didn't really have anything I wanted. Guess my main computer and available accessories are enough to hold me over for now.

Next on my list is 120gb SSD.