Are you a Bright?

[Caid Ivik]

Well, Ace, I've made two DLs and prepared third will be more into our own phalanx. And it is a discussion, not just plain propaganda. If you consider it such, then look at opening post of this thread, I would say it is same (if not worse...I don't use vulgarisms in DL threads).

SDKU, Slovak Christian-Democratic Union will set an atheist candidate for president next year, anyway.

http://www.sdkuonline.sk/index.php3?q_kategoria=2&q_id=1305

Wait who will show our liberals:

http://www.ano-aliancia.sk/

[Edric O]

Don't you guys have social democrats, Caid? (it would be even better if you had communists, but I know you don't - at most, you might have some of the old stalinists around, but neither of us wants to see those idiots back in power)

Acriku, I see your point. If you value honesty, you can't swear to something you don't believe in. I completely agree with you that all religious references should be taken out of official oaths. Swearing to a deity should be optional.

Ace, have you ever considered that you may be simply overreacting to people who only exercize their right to free speech? I have seen FAR more hateful anti-Christian comments on the internet than anti-atheist ones.

[SurlyPIG]

Caid, I was referring to your opinions in the DL thread, not necessarily the post itself, but just look at the title: "Dread Legion" Sounds nice doesn't it? Very flattering. Almost as bad as the stereotypical ignorance being perpetuated within the thread.

Edric, free speech is not a problem. When someone at least says something, I can do the same and if they listen, perhaps eliminate some of the stereotypes they've had built up for them. Of course, unless people know me and believe that I'm not some Hell-born Satan-worshiping hedonistic demon, they're usually pretty cement-headed and continue believing their parents, clergymen, people in their congregation, etc. Anyway what I'm referring to is the inherited ignorance constantly perpetuated in some regions, and even in some famlies. It varies in extremities from place to place. If someone says something stupid or offensive, I still have the chance to correct them or at least tell them to can it. But what I'm referring to is the look in the other guy's face after he asks you, "So, what Church do you go to?" and you tell him that you're an atheist. You can see his pre-programmed thoughts just from the expression on his face..."An atheist? I misjudged him...they really are everywhere, that's getting dangerous!" And from that point they never act the same around you. It's tiresome, and it can't be stopped - even though I always say that I'm agnostic. As much as one might try, you can't make somebody to not be ignorant or judgemental. It's the assumptions. The assumptions that atheists have no sense of morality and decency, that somehow their morals are more objective because they are poorly defined in a book hundreds or thousands of years old. The assumptions that atheists only want to cause trouble, otherwise they'd surely be theist. Edric, what you see on the internet is one thing. What happens to people from different places in everyday life is another matter entirely. I've had someone throw fruit at me because I'm an atheist!

[Anathema]

There are few things more stupid then atheists trying to group themselves into cults like these. The difference between "brights" and "gays" is that gays were actually widely discriminated against and that "brights" are a bunch of brats who seek to spread their ideas for no apparent reason.

[SurlyPIG]

^You see my point now Edric?^

[Anathema]

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with freedom of speech, I'm merely pointing out that these "brights" are idiots. About stuff like getting fruit thrown at you, dunno what things are like in Canada or the US but I can tell you that a cult like "brights" would be utterly pointless in say, the Netherlands.

[Edric O]

No, Ace, actually I don't, especially seeing how Earthnuker is an agnostic himself.

Gays were being horribly discriminated against, and in some places still are. But your main argument seems to be that some people give you funny looks... I'm sorry, Ace, but that goes above and beyond the boundaries of hyper-sensitivity itself...

Edit: Wait, sorry, I didn't see the part about having fruit thrown at you. I cannot even imagine something like that happening here... or in any other European country I've been to. Are you serious?

[SurlyPIG]

Earthnuker, Bright is just a word, not a cult.

Edric, funny looks is what the sane people do. Rude, but sane. The sane people I don't mind. I could care less what the sane people do. It's the insane ones that worry me. Of course I'm serious about the fruit throwing guy. Him and his brother were on their two-year Mormon mission and came by my house when I was shooting hoops on my driveway. Now I'm usually not rude. That day I blew them off as nicely as possible, but strangely they inquired as to why I did. They asked me if I was a devout Christian or Catholic or a Jehovas witness. I knew how they would react so I wasn't too outward about myself, but they asked, "Then what are you?" So, I told 'em. The perky-friendly looks on their faces disappeared. But hey, I could care less. Didn't so much as phase me. I went on to hit 27 free throws in a row! Now that's clutch! Anyway the two of 'em live in my neighbourhood, thier brother is actually a friendly acquantence of mine. The next day when I was coming home from work the younger of the two was standing on his driveway lobbing fruit at me from accross the street while screaming "SINNER! SINNER!" at the top of his lungs. It would have been kind of funny if wasn't so disturbing. He threw a couple tomatoes, an orange, and some kind of small melon, it would have totalled several dollars on a grocer's bill. He had terrible aim so I wasn't worried, but I was still pretty mad. It was a total waste of good food.

That's not the worst of it though. It's not the funny looks it's what follows. People I'd known for years that I tell that to suddenly want nothing to do with me. A couple of them literally said it to my face and made it a steadfast policy to have nothing to do with me. Even the ones who know me and know that their prejudice about me was unfounded still revert to their instructed, ritual, inherited habit. Of course for every one of these there are a half dozen or so that I manage to turn around. I've managed to wear through many a misconception about atheists just by living what I am. My attitude towards at can be summed up in the verse quoted in my sig. Most of my friends are religious in some way. But like I said the sane people don't bother me. I live in a mixed suburban neihbourhood in what's probably the most conservative city in Canada. And let me tell you, it's a drop in the ocean compared to some places in the states. The interior US, aka the Bible Belt, is many times worse at LEAST.

[Caid Ivik]

Ace, where you felt ignored in the Dread Legion? Sorry I've mentioned Acriku as D2k-DL mastermind, next time I'll change to you, if you want so ;D

But let's end with jokes, I've seen a mention of Mormons, and that's serious stuff. It is a very bizzare cult, something from christianity, some from modern satanism and something from freemasonry as well. But primarily, they are weird. And about wisdom very weak. I've succesfully negated 1st book of Nefi, opening part of the Great Mormon Book, their addon to Bible. Contact my friend on trill@lycos.de for details. He will help you, if you have any problems with them, he carried a succesful djihad against them last year...

Don't you guys have social democrats, Caid? (it would be even better if you had communists, but I know you don't - at most, you might have some of the old stalinists around, but neither of us wants to see those idiots back in power)

We have two parties, declaring themselves social democratic: SDA (Social Democratic Alliance) and SDL (Party of Left Democracy). SDA are younger heretics of SDL, which is composed by mostly older commies. In fact, SDL was a slovak part of KSC, Communist Party of 48-89, renamed after revolution. Both had very small support (about 3%) last votes. Our newer hardcore communist party (KSS, Communist Party of Slovakia), is rather new subject, which preaches things like you, that Jesus was a first communist, fight against capitalism etc.. Well, they got 7%, so they are in parliament. One of their MPs is former Holywood bodyguard, anyway.

Some parties like Smer or HZDS consider themselves as a "3rd way", sometimes are nationalistic, sometimes oligarchistic, sometimes as left as hand with my clocks.

[SurlyPIG]

I want no part of your demeaning propaganda.

Serious question though; what makes you refer to Mormonism as a 'cult'? Is it not a denomination of Christianity? What sets it apart from other religions and makes it a cult?

[Edric O]

Ace, I fail to understand how two continents with so much shared history can have such widely different public opinions regarding religion... I mean, yelling at people and calling them sinners? That's unheard of! Actually, being rude to people on any religious reasons (both from the atheist and Christian sides) is definately not socially acceptable over here. And most of all, those never-ending disputes (that seem to be widespread in the USA) about religion in schools are completely non-existant here. Teachers don't try to indoctrinate anyone in any direction (students would generally see them as crackpots if they tried to push their own opinions rather than established fact), and all students have complete freedom of speech. I'll never understand how can Americans have no many problems with these things...

The point is, I'm getting rather fed up with militant atheists on the internet being arrogant and elitist, throwing insult after insult and overall hating Christians with a passion, when in real life I see Christians and atheists living happily together with no problems whatsoever!

[Caid Ivik]

EdricO, such thinkings aren't from such distance. Look at France... But I wouldn't put such label on whole societies.

Serious question though; what makes you refer to Mormonism as a 'cult'? Is it not a denomination of Christianity? What sets it apart from other religions and makes it a cult?

Catholic Church has made some categorisation of religions. Sometimes needed, i.e.when someone wants to be baptized or marry a catholic. First category are catholics, next non-catholic christians and then non-christians. Non-catholic christians agree with Bible in its jewish form + New Testament, but may have some different view on some details, i.e.dogmas, papal authority or some confusing Bible descriptions. Here we set protestant and orthodox churches. These have same spiritual education as catholics, their churches just left the Rome's way. In short, they are churches created by a schizma, partation of the Church.

Other religions were created on other bases. Religions erasing, replacing or adding sentences within Bible have their core also changed, so they are considered as non-christians, altough they may have some common points (i.e. commandements). Mormons have same status as islam, like Muhammad added Quran, John Smith added his Book of Mormon. No discussing about its divinity, Jesus said it straightly: "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many." (Mt 24,11). These are considered just as cults, as well as pagan and eastern believs.

About Mormons we can find even more dangerous deviations. For example they worship Lucifer as brother of Jesus, who gave us real free mind. Sorry, but this has nothing with christianity. Even other christian churches in Ecumenical Council don't accept them as christian religion.