AI in 'The Butlerian Jihad'

[Timenn]

It's time for another negative view on this book.

My opinion about the AI (Artificial Intelligence) in this book.

I think it sucks. They think like arrogant selfish humans. While they should think like mentats. They analyse everything and the AI will go through all possible steps, and they will select the best one, seen from many different situations, and how it will result after many years.

And the AI should even be better then that. Because they can have no limit on their processing speed, and their memory.

Bur the AI in BJ is plain stupid. I think even Searle would agree that better AI is possibe then that.

Let me give a few examples.

The League of Nobles has been attacked several times by the thinking machines. A good AI won't do so many attacks, that is a human action of overconfidence and feelings of revenge. But they would launch a enormous gigantic attack, which will wipe out everything at once. Becuase an AI can wait for thousands of years.

Another example: When Serena is talking about her 'lover' to Erasmus, Erasmus suddenly changes discussion and wants to talk about him.

And yes, an AI wouldn't work like that. They won't ramble on, but they will acquire all knowledge step by step. So that every subject is completed before they continue to the next subject. Because the AI isn't thinking about only 1 things, but they will think about many things at the same time.

And furthermore you have the violence of the thinking machines. There is no need for that. A better way to treat human slaves would be to execute them with small bullets, less mess to clean, and you have food for the other slaves at the same time (I don't think that way! :))

And a real AI would already have disposed of the cymeks. Simply because of the possible thread they would make.

It saddens me that KJA and Brian Herbert put so less time in thinking about how to make the thinking machines think.

[TMA_1]

ahh its just for fun, but I totally agree with you that the prequels just dont cut it. they are still dune related, so its better than nothing.

[Duneguy]

well you gotta think, there were programmed by humans, and they gotta go by the programming, even if it says just find one of the easiest ways to do something, also maybe the programmer wanted them to represent an actual human....

[Emperor Harkonnen]

I agree with some statments but I do want to defend one of my favorit dune books: first of all those little attacks were meant to succeed but they didn't. The AI don't want to jeopardize larger forces than necessary and if they waited for several thousand years the humans could buil up their defences. The Thinking Machines work efficient, they don't want to wait for thousands of years.

and the thinking machines couldn't get rid of the cymeks since they were not programmed to harm them. It is obvious that a computer cannot go beyond what it is programmed to do.

[Tio_Holtzmann]

that's the spirit lads!

I wonder bout erasmus, it does seem credible that a robot left thinking for 20 years would get a bit of a personality. maybe that happens on a higher level with omnius, which is why he's such a nark. although that really wouldn't explain why erasmus learns to lie and get angry and omnius can't.

[Andrew]

And a real AI would already have disposed of the cymeks. Simply because of the possible thread they would make.

Omnious was programmed to not kill a cymeck (The Titans)

Sure the thinking machines should be able to wipe them out..WHERE WERE THEIR NUKES!?!?! The thinking machines shoudlnt worry about taking over The League but just destroying the planets. Or blockading the planets for centuries.

[Timenn]

Let's assume that an AI is programmed to better itself. Then they will find a barricade, the programming not to destroy the cymeks. As soon as they will realise they have such a code, they will try to remove it.

But I believe it is better to drop that argument

But about the attacks:

They will not attack with the minimum amount of what is necassary. That is typical a human thing. Humans want to win without losing. But machines don't care if their economics (or material production or whatever) is crippled for decades. Because they will know the will catch that up after centuries.

And it is not that I don't like the book because of this, but I just think they could have made better AI.

And after all, we are here to debate, aren't we? :)

[Emperor Harkonnen]

yeah I like this debate it was about time someone started a topic about this ;)

I don't think that the thinking machines would use such large forces exposing their other planets. They didn't have that large a military force. and thinking machines don't like taking risks. They know how unpredictable the humans can be.

and I think it is mentioned in the book why omnius didn't use nukes. don't remember it though