Bene Gesserit's goal for the Kwisatz Harerach

[Egeides]

1- What would have been the exact result of Feyd + Jessica's daughter? What would have been the difference from Paul?

2- What was the BG's goal when it wanted to create a Kwisatz Haderach (Jessica's daughter + Feyd)? Was it the ultimate goal? Where was it going thereafter?

I have a few ideas on the subject but they really arent clear and I'd like to hear some on the subject...

[nemafakei]

"What would have been the exact result of Feyd + Jessica's daughter? What would have been the difference from Paul?"

- Could be manipulated by the BG

- The Atreides/Harkonnen union by marriage would have prevented the (almost) destruction of the Atreides bloodline on Arrakis

"What was the BG's goal when it wanted to create a Kwisatz Haderach (Jessica's daughter + Feyd)? Was it the ultimate goal? Where was it going thereafter?"

- Political control. The Atreides were militarily strong (but a little poor), the Harkonnen financially strong. The already-part-royal heir could be married to a Corrino.

- The KH would have access to the political and narcotic power of Arrakis - the melange, the WoL (not the internet servers), etc.

[SpiceGuid]

(WoL = Water of Life)

1- What would have been the exact result of Feyd + Jessica's daughter? What would have been the difference from Paul?

In my opinion he would have been half good and half evil, much like the Tleilaxu KH was (see start of Dune's messiah). So FH gives the answer: there would be no story at all (the Tleilaxu KH has killed himself).

2- What was the BG's goal when it wanted to create a Kwisatz Haderach (Jessica's daughter + Feyd)? Was it the ultimate goal?

The known universe has thousands worlds which means scattering and weak commandment.

Machines could be connected everywhere.

But the Butlerian Jihad commands no thinking machines.

So the great schools need the KH: the one that sums all eyes and all brains. In this sense the KH is the total sum, with all the powers of the "sum" word and all the dangers of the "total" word.

By our standards, one of the many corrupting effects of the Butlerian Jihad is vampirism: the common knowledge, the common memory, all is centralized by the few gifted. This centralization is needed as an hopeless attempt to counter the scaterring.

[TMA_1]

I have a theory that if jessica and feyd would have had a child, the breeding program might have given birth literally to a potentially unsuccessful KH. Still though taking that theory out of the idea, there wouldnt be much of a difference. People suspect that somehow there would be a civil and docile messiah that would be totally subjegated to the bene gesserit. not at all! no matter what the bene gesserit could have done, there would have still been failure. Because the KH could be in many places at once and his mind would be so advanced, he would understand his own manipulation. the bene gesserit didnt fail in not controlling jessica to have a daughter to Duke Leto. The bene gesserit failed thousands of years before, thinking that they could control something more powerful than themselves. It just was impossible and the bene gesserit never realized that.

[Timenn]

You can see that even the Kwisatz Haderach didn't have full control. (Unless Paul wasn't a Kwisatz Haderach, but something else) Paul finally defeated himself. He was trapped in his own visions. And because he saw the future he couldn't escape from it. So that makes me think that the Kwisatz Haderach isn't really so powerfull.

[Muad dib]

I dont even think Paul was a KH. He was something else. It says it in the first book somewere.

[Egeides]

Okay, sure, the BG wanted to control the KH for their biddings. But someone has an idea of these biddings?

Possible hypothesis:

- Perhaps to take control over the imperial house by having their puppet (KH) there. From there on, BG + Imperial house = huge control of destiny.

- Creation of a "aura" of an incredible strength, like Larence of Arabia, or Jesus... Or somehow like that girl worms were obeying to (don't remember name :(), but alot stronger.

- Upgrade of humanity by eugenism.

Opinion? This is not about any other mean of control, it's the ultimate KH!

[Timenn]

I dont even think Paul was a KH. He was something else. It says it in the first book somewere.

Later he says that he IS the Kwisatz Haderach, and that he can't deny anything anymore.

But apart from that, I think the KH is not the ultimate person or something like that

[Tio_Holtzmann]

1- What would have been the exact result of Feyd + Jessica's daughter? What would have been the difference from Paul?

2- What was the BG's goal when it wanted to create a Kwisatz Haderach (Jessica's daughter + Feyd)? Was it the ultimate goal? Where was it going thereafter?

1. The KH that would, by the BGs estimation be theirs to control. Paul was as powerful as the KH, but lost control, maybe with the BGs the KH could have wielded his power a little more.

2. The BG wanted the KH because of his hyperpresience. Maybe just more power of that kind, which would increase the power of their house. Having a navigator-powered human and then some working for you with no ties is probably handy to have.

[SpiceGuid]

I dont even think Paul was a KH. He was something else. It says it in the first book somewere.

Before Water of Life he thinks he is only the Fremen messiah. But then he is prescient, can be at many places at once, so no doubt he is both the Fremen messiah and a KH. He is not the KH, but only in the sense he is more than that.

[TMA_1]

I think people have a hard time with this KH stuff, I know I did. I just thought long and hard, and since I am not the brightest person in the world I had to think really long and really hard.lol

The KH isnt just one single form of perfection. the KH doesnt have to be a singular person, but many people. Anybody that fits the standards of prescience is one. Both paul and leto II were kh's. There have even been freak accidents in the far past where there were cases of men and women holding KH type powers. People of extreme genius who were outside of the normal train of thought. Paul could see in many places at once, he was a KH, just didnt fulfill the prophesy of becoming Shui Hulud personified.

and as I have said before, no matter what situation the bene gesserit had the KH in, they could not of controlled him. that is the whole point. Perfection of mind does not hcange perfection of character, and if we create something that powerful, we create a monster. No matter how controlled the KH was, it would have broken from the grasp of the bene gesserit.