The illogics of Judeo-Christian God

[Gobalopper]

Sure it could be 4:

contigency:

2 : a contingent event or condition: as a : an event (as an emergency) that may but is not certain to occur

[Acriku]

Agreed that is among the 'purpose' and 'result' choices, but knowing which one is meant? Toughie.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/cando.html This was referred to me, and pretty much says it all. Since the bible contradicts itself so much, I guess you can find evidence for and against everything ::)

[emprworm]

Hehe emprworm, by talking about a magical being in the sky that created us all in 6 days, logic is assumed? Blow that out your ear ;D You have no basis for this, and this is getting more funny than serious. Since when does the bible assume logic?

since it was written. the bible claims to be THE TRUTH. It CLAIMS that it is *THE* truth!! Even atheists admit that. No one would argue against a book that claimed to be false. No one would follow a belief that said "THIS BELIEF IS FALSE".

Because the Bible claims to be TRUE, logic is to be assumed until shown otherwise.

The statement "With God, all things are possible" is not contradictory if logic is first assumed regarding God.

With God (as a logical being), all things are possible"

anything that would make God an illogical being (hence non-existent) is obviously impossible. OBVIOUSLY! That is a given.

and it is assumed. (it is not assumed by nitpicking atheists looking for contradictions, however)

[Acriku]

Non sequitor empr. Men wrote the books of the bible, so it not surprising that there are illogics in it. Claiming to be the truth is for every book of a religion, otherwise - why believe in it if it doesn't say it speaks the truth? Does that mean it is clear of illogic? No. Does that mean that it speaks what it speaks, and any assumptions are added by one's own reasoning? Yes.

Again, you add in your little tidbits in the bible, where it says no such thing. But hey, if you want your own sect of Christianity, by all means go for it.

If the bible is claiming to be the truth, then everybody should be nitpicky!

anything that would make God an illogical being (hence non-existent) is obviously impossible. OBVIOUSLY! That is a given.

Thank you for agreeing with me that the Judeo-Christian God is illogical, and non-existant.

[TMA_1]

how can you say "he" is illogical and non-existant when you havent studied the main source of info on "him" for yourself?

also, how do you know the judeo christian God doesnt exist? I will rephrase what you said. "I believe that the judeo-christian God doesnt exist".

[emprworm]

Non sequitor empr. Men wrote the books of the bible, so it not surprising that there are illogics in it. Claiming to be the truth is for every book of a religion, otherwise - why believe in it if it doesn't say it speaks the truth? Does that mean it is clear of illogic? No. Does that mean that it speaks what it speaks, and any assumptions are added by one's own reasoning? Yes.

Again, you add in your little tidbits in the bible, where it says no such thing. But hey, if you want your own sect of Christianity, by all means go for it.

If the bible is claiming to be the truth, then everybody should be nitpicky!

you don't even know what a non-sequitur is. I have added no tidbits. THe Bible clearly states that God cannot contradict his own nature (Hebrew 6). This means that God is a logical being, hence, With God (as a logical being that can actually exist), all things are possible.

anything that would make God an illogical being (hence non-existent) is obviously impossible. OBVIOUSLY! That is a given.

Thank you for agreeing with me that the Judeo-Christian God is illogical, and non-existant.

only the Acriku self-made atheist god is illogical, hence non-existent. The God as defined in the Bible is both logical and all powerful.

all powerful WITHIN logic is MORE POWERFUL than all powerful OUTSIDE logic.

ACRIKU SAYS: All powerful must mean OUTSIDE logic.

but ACRIKU is wrong. Because "all powerful" OUTSIDE logic is WEAKER than "All powerful" INSIDE logic.

BEING ONE: God is all-powerful INSIDE logic.

BEING TWO: God is all-powerful OUTSIDE logic.

Being one is stronger, and more powerful than being two.

A gnat is stronger, more powerful than being two

God of the Bible = Being One, and is infinitely stronger than Acriku's being TWO

[Acriku]

TMA, if the attributes are illogical, then reading the bible won't do any good on making them logical.

I know the Judeo-Christian god doesn't exist based on the impossible attributes attributed to the god, and that was pretty careless to do so (whoever made up these attributes, *shudder*). When did I say that? That doesn't sound like me to skip the comma and uncapitalize Judeo and Christian, yet capitalize god. If I did, then I was mistaken at the time, because I know that the Judeo-Christian god does not exist.

[TMA_1]

TMA, if the attributes are illogical, then reading the bible won't do any good on making them logical.

how do you know what is illogical? you base your information on human and secondary sources. You never go to the prime source. This is what I am saying man. its futile to debate with no info backed up. be yourself and not what others create.

[emprworm]

BEING ONE: God is all-powerful INSIDE logic.

BEING TWO: God is all-powerful OUTSIDE logic.

Being one is stronger, and more powerful than being two.

Being one can actually exist. Being two cannot possibly exist.

A gnat is stronger, more powerful than being two.

The crust on some used underwear is more powerful than being two.

There is no being possible greater than being one.

God of the Bible = Being One, and is infinitely stronger than Acriku's being two.

[Acriku]

Empr, must we keep going in circles? You are acting just like you do in political issues (although the people in here don't see it since they are on the same side as empr).

you don't even know what a non-sequitur is. I have added no tidbits. THe Bible clearly states that God cannot contradict his own nature (Hebrew 6). This means that God is a logical being, hence, With God (as a logical being that can actually exist), all things are possible.

Non sequitur (seemed to have been putting 'o' for some reason...) - does not follow. It means saying one thing, and concluding something that does not follow from the former statement. Want to claim another lie? Does the bible say "as a logical being"? No, so you added it. How about being more specific than just "hebrew 6"? You did expect me to check up on "hebrew 6" didn't you? You are just manipulating the bible and adding assumptions to it, to fit your own strange view. In all of the debates I have read, this is a first.

Even more evidence of god lying...

1 Kg.22:23

"Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee."

2 Chr.18:22

"Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets."

Jer.20:7

"O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived."

Ezek.14:9

"And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet."

2 Th.2:11

"For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."

[emprworm]

Does the bible say "as a logical being"?

strawman.

it is assumed. the bible claims to be true. Logic is therefore assumed in all parts of it.

no reasonable person would expect someone to predicate every one of their arguments with "the following argument as a logical argument"

you commit aggregious double standards. you want to talk about fallacies? Try straw man. You build up an irrelevant argument then knock it down. repeatedly.

now so you added it.

strawman.

the bible claims to be true. Logic is therefore assumed in all parts of it. no reasonable person would expect someone to predicate every one of their arguments with "the following argument as a logical argument"

How about being more specific than just "hebrew 6"? You did expect me to check up on "hebrew 6" didn't you?

yes I did, and that is why I left out the verse. you can read the whole chapter and find it.

You are just manipulating the bible and adding assumptions to it, to fit your own strange view.

i am taking the twisted doughnut that you did to the Bible, and simply straightening it back out into what it originally said.

In all of the debates I have read, this is a first. Logged

your strawmen are quite common, actually.

[emprworm]

1 Kg.22:23

"Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee."

2 Chr.18:22

"Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets."

Jer.20:7

"O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived."

Ezek.14:9

"And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet."

2 Th.2:11

"For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie." Logged

and? none of those says God lies.

which one does again?

[Acriku]

I still don't see how you can say logic is assumed. When the jackass begins to talk, is that when logic is supposed to be assumed as well?

and? none of those says God lies.

which one does again?

He lies, by proxy. If god cannot lie, how can he lie by proxy?

Let me ask you a question. What would it take for you to come to the conclusion that your god is no different than the other thousands of gods that are also made up?

[emprworm]

I still don't see how you can say logic is assumed. When the jackass begins to talk, is that when logic is supposed to be assumed as well?

since when do you EVER require someone to predicate their statements with "The following argument will assume logical definitions to its terms"

what the? Your double standard is as big as the andromeda galaxy.

and? none of those says God lies.

which one does again?

He lies, by proxy. If god cannot lie, how can he lie by proxy?

what is a "lie by proxy?"

What would it take for you to come to the conclusion that your god is no different than the other thousands of gods that are also made up?

The Greatest Possible Being will never....and cannot EVER be the same as the thousands of other made up gods.

There is one...and only one...Greatest Possible Being.

I will now backtrack and re-ask a question you have dodged thus far:

Let us define God as the greatest possible being. The Greatest Possible Being, for which there is no being that could possibly be greater.

This God has the power to perform any task that does not contradict himself.

This God can actually exist.

---->Can you think of a Being greater than this? <-----

(note: if your being cannot actually exist, then I would like to remind you that a gnat can actually exist and would be stronger, more powerful, than any being you think up that cannot exist)

[TMA_1]

1 Kg.22:23

"Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee."

2 Chr.18:22

"Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets."

Jer.20:7

"O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived."

Ezek.14:9

"And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet."

2 Th.2:11

"For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."

Most of what you see is bad translation. Some though like the one from jeremiah is actually translated to decieve or decieved. If you studied jeremiah you would understand why he was called the "weeping prophet". He went through more trials and tribulations than any other. It is also a great book because unlike many parts of the bible, there is a lot of his humanity shown from him. how he loses his wife and tries to get her back. how he is accused of things that he never did, how he had to watch the growth of the phallic cult (where men and women would go atop hills among the trees. some trees would be shaven down to penis' and the women would orgasm on them while babies were thrown into a statue that was shaped like a big bellied god. the fire in the belly of the statue would kill the kids. This was done to please molech and to intensify the woman's orgasm.)

this stuff was sick dude. Many times jeremiah would openly display defiance against God because he was pissed. I have done this to God many times. we all do as believers. Does this mean God is a lier though? no silly.

God also on another verse that you showed with the right translation talked about putting a lieing spirit into a man. This has to do with God allowing a deamon to enter into the body of an individual. The translation I go with though is that God made him blind. Sometimes God will make abject people completely blind to truth, because they wish not to see it.

read what you speak against acriku.

[Edric O]

You know what's funny, Acriku? That you're living in a universe where there are Spin 2 particles, where a photon can be in two places at once, where the present can affect the past and where a cat can be both dead and alive at the same time (reference to Schrödinger's thought experiment).

And while the very particles that you are made of can defy logic, you shout far and wide that an illogical being cannot exist.

I guess you don't exist either, then...

[nemafakei]

Humour me. If an oversized gnat was the geatest being alive, would you worship it?

[emprworm]

no. i worship only the greatest possible being.

[nemafakei]

Verry well... If an oversized gnat was the geatest being possible (the greatest entity the universe could support), would you worship it?

[emprworm]

then it would be God. It would no longer be a gnat.

there would be no characteristic of a gnat in this being. that would be like me calling the earth a paperclip. Sure, you could say "i live on a paperclip" but the truth is you live on earth.

[nemafakei]

I don't see.

I am still talking about a really big gnat. If this really big gnat were the greatest thing the universe were able to support (it's a particularly impoverished universe), are you saying it would somehow become an ethereal entity?

Remember it's still a gnat. It's not omnipotent or anything, it just buzzes around.

[emprworm]

hmmmm...perhaps we misunderstood each other.

"geatest being possible (the greatest entity the universe could support), would you worship it?"

when i think of the greatest being possible, i was not thinking exclusively limited to the universe. so now i think maybe thats what you meant, so yea, u are right, it would still be just a really large gnat.

no, i would not worship such a being.

i only would worship the greatest possible being.

[nemafakei]

Ok... still misunderstanding... I was assuming you understood my definiton of the universe as everything that exists, which would apply in this hypothetical situation.

Hence, 'limited to the universe' means limited to everything... not really limited.

[emprworm]

Ok... still misunderstanding... I was assuming you understood my definiton of the universe as everything that exists, which would apply in this hypothetical situation.

Hence, 'limited to the universe' means limited to everything... not really limited.

the greatest possible being would not be limited to the universe. why would you think that?

[Acriku]

Because the universe is all there is? Or atleast that is what Nema is saying (correct me if I am wrong).