Babies going to hell...

[Acriku]

I wasn't playing with the bible's words, I took them not out of context in which only within context they would make sense, I took them in which it makes sense without the verses before or after it. The meaning still is there.

Caid, when people write about the same things, you don't know if they collaborated, or used past stories to write theirs, or used stories passed down verbally. And you can't have it both ways in which it is divine inspiration from god, but the errors are human errors. That's, I believe the term is, special pleading.

[Caid Ivik]

You've used non-accurate sense of the verses. Nothing there is negating free will. New Testament is inspired by God, because it is about Jesus, who de facto WAS God. That's logical ;)

[Acriku]

Am I doing it now? I don't think so. Prove Jesus was god and we will talk about it. The thing is, Jesus was just a big talker (according to writings, not known for sure if he existed) and talked against his own people, and then some were delusional enough to follow him - perhaps because they were waiting long enough for their messiah - and most stayed with their people. Jesus was a heretic, egotistical liar, and probably more. All of this is according to writings, not to say that he actually existed.

[Caid Ivik]

How he was egoistic? Where he had lied? His existence is proven in more even atheist resources (i.e. Tacitus). He arised from the dead and was seen by hundreds then. You are talking one nonsense after second.

[Acriku]

He was egotistical by saying he was the messiah, he said "I am." If I say I'm god now, I'd have to have some superiority complex. The evidence for Jesus' existence is non-existant - that is to say that any evidence for a Jesus doesn't mean Jesus Christ. Jesus was a very popular name. People didn't see his resurrection. There were a bunch of people who saw him walking the earth, and him telling Paul, "touch me I am flesh" or something like that because Paul didn't believe he was back. But that's in stories as well. I am a huge skeptic on Jesus' existence, and no evidence thusfar has been conclusive.

[Caid Ivik]

So, there is written a report of "execution by crucifying of an influental jewish preacher named Jesus". Possibly there were thousands of influental jewish preachers named Jesus in the Roman Empire, many of them could be crucified, but how many of them resurrected?

[Acriku]

Who said he resurrected? Oh that's right, the same book that says god made the whole universe...

[Caid Ivik]

If God hasn't created the universe, then what has? ::)

[Dante]

Physics.

[Caid Ivik]

What has created physics?

[Dante]

Physics doesn't need to be created. It is THERE. In the same way that gravity and electromagnetism are THERE. There is no creating force behind it because it has always been and shall always be.

[Caid Ivik]

But if the universe once wasn't, something had to start the Big Bang.

[Acriku]

Why Caid? For something to cause the big bang, it would have to be separate from the universe, and we can't possibly contemplate that. It's beyond our comprehension to have something separate from the universe itself, which is all that is here. Why couldn't the big bang just happen? A local event in spacetime if you will. It doesn't have to be the beginning, maybe for us, but in infinite spacetime the big bang could be just an event.

[Caid Ivik]

This is a theory like we cannot reach the space, because it's another sphere. Big Bang was a come of all matter to space. There had to be a moment, which changed the structure of space and put it here. Time isn't infinite, that was already proven.

[Acriku]

Spacetime is not time Caid, big difference there.

[Caid Ivik]

And what it is then? Time is absolute. Has start and will have one end - by atheists when all energy will change to matter, by religious when God tells. And there had to be an Act of starting the time.

[hilamobster13]

They don't know because they are very primitive at their age. They lack critical thinking skills. Are you saying that all babies who are born suddenly are born with the ability to think, postulate, and ponder, all of which must come with the concept of a god? The fact is, no they are not. Therefore, the only way would be for them to be born with only the concept of god. With no ability to comprehend the concept of god, the concept of god cannot exist. With critical thinking skills, one might explain the universe with a creator, a big oogabushnikala monster in the sky. Explaining things with the supernatural is not uncommon, but that doesn't make it any true. Look at my signature :)

What led you to your conclusion that babies are born with the concept of a god?

i think jefferson was talking not about christianity, since he was a member of a cult, also known as the free masons.

[hilamobster13]

And what it is then? Time is absolute. Has start and will have one end - by atheists when all energy will change to matter, by religious when God tells. And there had to be an Act of starting the time.

time is indeed NOT absolute. time isnt even existant. time is the measurement of decay and movement of matter and energy. it in and of itself is not an object, it is not tangible in any form, it does not have any basis in the physical realm. but somewhere along the lines scientists forgot that, and they started mistaking what time measures for the measurement. and i do beleive a famous german scientist proved that time is relative. e=mc2, i beleive.

due to times' non-existence, but its existence as a measurement only, it can never end as it had never began.

also, someone far back said that physics is just THERE. what basis does he have to believe in something so completely intangible and unbsed? sounds like he's taking one unjustified beleif for another. to believe something came out of nothing? ludicrous! :P

its kind of funny, he was saying that it just has allways been there, and allways will be. are these not, more or less, the exact same words god gave? i dont have the old testament quote, but more or less, you've just paraphrased the bible and replaced god with physics. you have no more justification than the cristians.

i cannot see the wind, but i can see the effects of the wind. in my life, i have come to beleive that there is a wind blowing me my way for some purpose. i used to curse god for my diabetes. now, i thank him, because i can never be drafted and i have a higher tolerance for cold temperatures. also, i have a higher tolerance for all the WICKED piercings im getting!!! :P

[Acriku]

Gila, I changed my sig since then, there was no need to respond to that.

If something can be manipulated, I think it exists...