Somalis Pay to Smuggle Kids to Europe, US

[Acriku]

Educate them? Where? When? How?

[emprworm]

Yes, that is what I said... and in the mean time, the US government gets to educate them however it sees fit, making sure that they vote for a pro-US faction when they get voting power.

huh? Seriously, Edric, are you making this stuff up? Although I think you're a bright guy, you have some wierd ideas at time that I think have their source not in fact, but simply in your blind hatred for the US government.

[Edric O]

Really? Then tell me: Who prints all the school books for Afghanistan? That's right, your friendly US government!

[Acriku]

So...you want them to make their own?

[Anathema]

well i've never known any country where a 'boot licking' US government was installed.

Vietmam, Cuba and western Germany.

[Acriku]

It makes sense though to put in a government not opposed to US, doesn't it?

[Anathema]

No, it makes sense to install a government wich is best for the people.

[Terror]

huh? Seriously, Edric, are you making this stuff up? Although I think you're a bright guy, you have some wierd ideas at time that I think have their source not in fact, but simply in your blind hatred for the US government.

it's true though, the US government (and many more in human history btw, it's not just the US) has done many different that you can hardly believe.

like that they provided weapons to the TALIBAN to fight the Russians, or that they used uranium in the gulf war, both lethal for enemies and allies alike as they didn't tell their own soldiers that they used uranium... what happens? soldiers pickup pieces of metal that are actually highly radioactive. After serious research they found out that at least 5 times as many of those men have cancer than normal persons.

I just can't believe it, that they didn't even tell their own soldiers that they used that incredibly dangerous uranium in battle... they are responsible for many deaths on the US side.

[Anathema]

Plus they selled weapons to Iraq, Milosovic and a dozen other "questionable" figures.

[Acriku]

Well war is horrible. To win, horrible things might take place.

[Terror]

but using a dangerous weapon like uranium and not warning your own men? that is madness! same goes for selling weapons to terrorists..

anyway... like i said, the US are by far not the first and only who do such things, about every country has done horrible things in history, even us Dutch people.

[Anathema]

Don't know about you, but if my government told me to put my life on the line, shoot people and spend weeks (if not months, or years) away from home, I'd at least like to know that they give me equipment that kills me faster then cigarettes.

[Acriku]

Flameweaver, we give weapons to groups of people in need of them, and then later they turn on us. We couldn't have foreseen it, but we accepted it and fought them.

[Terror]

what do you mean by that exactly? that you think that the use of uranium in the war without telling his own soldiers is good or bad? (no criticism, i just didn't exactly understood, my apologies for the inconvenience)

[nampigai]

Don't know about you, but if my government told me to put my life on the line, shoot people and spend weeks (if not months, or years) away from home, I'd at least like to know that they give me equipment that kills me faster then cigarettes.

yes if you go down to the Balkans you'll prolly be able to find some Shermans

[Anathema]

Naah, we never had the chance to cause as much carnage as England or France. We did bad things in our colonies, but other then that we were mostly merchants.

[Acriku]

I meant the giving weapons to terrorists thingie. And I think the uranium deal is bad, but can't change it now.

[Terror]

Naah, we never had the chance to cause as much carnage as England or France. We did bad things in our colonies, but other then that we were mostly merchants.

hmmm perhaps, cuz we were with few, but what i totally hate about our history, is that right after WWII, we learned nothing about occupation. We were just freed by the allies and so happy that the occupying forces where gone... what do we do? we directly send out a fleet to Indonesia to reoccoppy it, and make profits there, to rebuild or country.

probably the worst of all countries was spain. What they did to the inca's and aztecs and stuff.... that's just plain inhuman!

[Anathema]

Yeah, possibly the darkest chapter in Dutch history :(

[Edric O]

probably the worst of all countries was spain. What they did to the inca's and aztecs and stuff.... that's just plain inhuman!

I disagree with that. The Aztecs deserved it. Cortes didn't overthrow them all by himself, with his handful of soldiers. He raised a huge army of NATIVES who were eager to rebel against the tyranny of the Aztecs. The Spanish did nothing more than lead a rebellion of the conquered people against their Aztec opressors...

What the Spanish did AFTERWARDS is a different matter. But considering the inhuman rituals and bloody history of the Aztecs, removing them was a GOOD thing.

Edit: Think of it as getting rid of the Taliban...

[Terror]

1. the natives were inca's and mayans

2. the spanish captured the aztec emperor, forced the aztecs to pay a huge amount of money so that they would release the emperor, instead they did not release him, but killed him, in front of all the aztecs

3. Aztecs were indeed an agressive people, however the inca's and mayans were not, and they got the same treatment, betrayal, and brutal slaughtering

[emprworm]

probably the worst of all countries was spain. What they did to the inca's and aztecs and stuff.... that's just plain inhuman!

I disagree with that. The Aztecs deserved it. Cortes didn't overthrow them all by himself, with his handful of soldiers. He raised a huge army of NATIVES who were eager to rebel against the tyranny of the Aztecs. The Spanish did nothing more than lead a rebellion of the conquered people against their Aztec opressors...

What the Spanish did AFTERWARDS is a different matter. But considering the inhuman rituals and bloody history of the Aztecs, removing them was a GOOD thing.

Edit: Think of it as getting rid of the Taliban...

i never knew that edric.

[Edric O]

You have things quite mixed up, Flameweaver.

1. The Incas and the Aztecs never had any contact whatsoever. They didn't even know of each other's EXISTENCE.

2. Actually, that was the Inca Emperor. The last Aztec Emperor, Moctezuma II, was killed by his own people for being incompetent in dealing with the Spanish.

In fact, "Emperor" is not a good name. His title was "He Who Speaks" and he had very limited power. The Aztec Empire was practically ruled by the religious caste. The Aztecs waged constant war, continuing to find excuses to fight an enemy even after they had surrendered. They did this for the purpose of harvesting prisoners for their human sacrifices. It was their belief they they must sacrifice at least one man each day in order for the Sun to continue to rise. They killed their victims by ripping the heart out of their chest with the help of a very sharp ceremonial knife.

It is said that the steps of the great Aztec temple in Tehcnotitlan (sp?) were covered in dried blood, and there is a report of the Aztecs sacrificing 50,000 people in a single day after one of their greatest victories.

3. I agree. Especially about the Incas. In fact, the Incas were a fascinating people. Did you know that they basically didn't fight back when the Spanish attacked them? The arrival of the Spanish invaders was in perfect timing with the prophecy made over 100 years earlier by the Emperor Pachakuti (sp?) about the end of the Empire of the Sun. ("Inca" = People of the Sun)

[emprworm]

"They did this for the purpose of harvesting prisoners for their human sacrifices. It was their belief they they must sacrifice at least one man each day in order for the Sun to continue to rise. They killed their victims by ripping the heart out of their chest with the help of a very sharp ceremonial knife."

yes, yes, I remember learning this. They recently discovered volumes of human skulls and bones in a chamber that they believed was used for human sacrifice. They were a reprehensible culture. Thank you Edric for enlightening me on that.

[Edric O]

The Incas and the Aztecs were a world apart. It's not really fair to put them in the same category. You can see their fundamental differences if you look at their motivations for building an Empire:

The Aztecs were only interested in prisoners. More and more prisoners, to use as sacrifice to their gods. Their very weapons were designed to mutilate, not kill, so that the fallen enemy soldiers could later be taken as prisoners and sacrificed. (I guess dieing in battle was a blessing if you fought the Aztecs, seeing what happened to those who were taken alive...)

The Incas built their immense Empire after 800 of civil war in the Andes. Their philosophy was "as in heaven, so on Earth", meaning "as all the stars move together in harmony on the sky, under the rule of the Sun, so the people of the world must live in peace under a single Emperor". And so they built their Empire Of The Sun and brought peace to a region larger than the Roman Empire. In fact, when the Spanish arrived, the Incas had not been at war for over 2 generations...

You can't really compare the peaceful astronomy-loving Incas with the cruel, bloodthirsty Aztecs... any more than you can compare Viracocha with Quetzalcoatl. :)