10 years after...

[Edric O]

The war on terror is a way to distract public attention and an excuse for taking away the rights and liberties of citizens.

It is also a move by the West to further oppress the nations of the Middle East and their freedom fighters.

[Caid Ivik]

So, we can shit at USA, but if NATO has some purpose, it is protection of his area. Saddam attacked Israel, our ally, Al-Kaida under Afghan protection their homeland. We have to save our allies of being destroyed. I think whole NATO should make a protectorate over USA ;D

[Edric O]

LOL, the US can very well take care of itself. In fact, they could conquer the whole world if they wanted... oh wait - they did.

[emprworm]

"The war on terror is a way to distract public attention and an excuse for taking away the rights and liberties of citizens."

Rights and liberties of who? Oh yea, the "rights and liberties of the Taliban." I

"It is also a move by the West to further oppress the nations of the Middle East and their freedom fighters."

Awww....those poor little Jihadian freedom fighters....we feel so sorry for them. Those poor Al-Queda are being hindered in their plans for killing innocent civillians. Poor bwabies. At least I finally know who's side you are on Edric. Fighting for the 'rights' of the Taliban.

[Edric O]

1. Can you PLEASE try to not reduce the loading speed of the forums to a crawl with your excessive graphics?

2. Who's side am I on? I am on the side of those who fight against the powers of global capitalism, against the evil of corporate slavery and against the lies and propaganda of corrupt Western governments. I have no pictures to show you, because the forces of freedom do not own any massive media empires. Unlike your corporate masters, we do not manipulate and brainwash the people to do our bidding.

But perhaps one day your orwellian dream will come true, Emprworm, and we will all wear barcodes on our foreheads.

[emprworm]

1. Can you PLEASE try to not reduce the loading speed of the forums to a crawl with your excessive graphics?

2. Who's side am I on? I am on the side of those who fight against the powers of global capitalism, against the evil of corporate slavery and against the lies and propaganda of corrupt Western governments. I have no pictures to show you, because the forces of freedom do not own any massive media empires. Unlike your corporate masters, we do not manipulate and brainwash the people to do our bidding.

But perhaps one day your orwellian dream will come true, Emprworm, and we will all wear barcodes on our foreheads.

[Dude_Doc]

I don't think Bush is out for global control, Edric. I mean, it would be pretty obvious to the world if he was, and people would not obey him, which means if people do not follow "Bush's Empire", there will be no one to control, and no one to rule.

And you think all Americans are vile and evil? No they are not. They like war and destruction as much as you and everyone else does.

[Edric O]

Here's an idea: why don't you post a nice 1280x1024 pic while you're at it? ::)

I always noticed you had a tendency to ignore other people's repeated explanations, but this is ridiculous. For the last time, I DO NOT support the taliban!!

Repeat after me:

Edric does not support the taliban.

Edric does not support the taliban.

Edric does not support the taliban.

Edric does not support the taliban.

Edric does not support the taliban.

NOW do you finally get it? ::)

You and all other arrogant capitalist hypocrites like yourself have no right to complain about terrorism! Do you honestly think that those poor Muslims decided to attack you because they just woke up one day and felt like it? They did it because they were desperate! They did it because their children are starving, because their families are persecuted, because their countries are ruled by corrupt vassals of the West!

Terrorism is the last resort of the hungry, the poor, the miserable, who have NOTHING left to lose and wish to die taking out as many as their oppressors as possible.

And you know what the sad part is? That those oppressors were victims themselves. Victims of misinformation and corporate propaganda. Innocent people died in the 9/11 attacks, innocents who had no idea of the crimes commited in their name.

The true evil, the true oppressors that should have died on Sept. 11 are the likes of George Bush, Bill Gates, and all other corporate bastards and their corrupt government puppets! They should have been the ones to die, and they are to blame for all the deaths at the WTC.

Do you want to know how to stop terrorism? Go to Iraq, go to North Korea and Afghanistan. And give them food. Give them clothes. Build them schools and hospitals. Save their children from death by starvation, cure them of the horrible diseases that we can get rid of with a simple antibiotic. Cut down on your Las Vegas casinos and yachts and take a minute to think about the poor and destitute of this world. ONLY THEN will you remove terrorism forever!

[Caid Ivik]

You are talking like you were jealous to their wealth. As all those terrorists are. Bush is president, not a "dominus deius". He is just a speaker of Cheney, Rice and other real powers of White House. But what I must primarily negate, is that terrorism is for you usual for any poor person. How opresses USA them? Because they don't give all GDP for their development? They aren't same country. Human should take pleasure on fruits of his work. Look at Bangladesh: Bengals are the poorest nation, but never do any terroristic attack against West. Also, look at Usama bin Ladin - a millionaire! Part of one of the richest builder family in Saudi Arabia!

[Edric O]

And you think all Americans are vile and evil?

What? Of course not. That's insane!

God bless America! By freeing it from the greedy, materialistic corporations who seek to take away the freedom of its people.

[emprworm]

Here's an idea: why don't you post a nice 1280x1024 pic while you're at it?

actually my picture is quite a bit smaller than the one Gob posted in his thread. My film strip was a bit too much, so I took it out. If you don't like looking evil in the face, quit defending it. I want to make it plain to all just who exactly you are sympathizing for by bringing it all home.

I always noticed you had a tendency to ignore other people's repeated explanations, but this is ridiculous. For the last time, I DO NOT support the taliban!!

then why do you continually condemn Bush, calling him a Nazi, for taking it out? Or are you going to tell me here and now:

Edric Supports what Bush did in Afghanistan

Edric Supports what Bush did in Afghanistan (repeat 4 times)

If you can say those words, then I will actually believe you.

NOW do you finally get it?

Not yet. On one hand you say you don't support them, on the other you defend them. We need some clarity. Are you thankful for Bush's successful efforts to neutralize them or would you rather they still be in power?

You and all other arrogant capitalist hypocrites like yourself have no right to complain about terrorism!

LOL. Here we go.....

Do you honestly think that those poor Muslims decided to attack you because they just woke up one day and felt like it? They did it because they were desperate!

lol. Please.

They did it because their children are starving, because their families are persecuted, because their countries are ruled by corrupt vassals of the West!

unbelievable. You live in a world of delusion.

Ever go on a roller coaster? Ever feel that 'thrill' ...that 'rush' of a 100KPH drop?

Quiz for you Edric. Lets play a little game. Look at the man below. Which US company is responsible for the pleasure...the near sexual excitement he gets when he points his gun at someone's head and pulls the trigger.

QUIZ: Who is responsible for the wonderful pleasure rush this man gets when he and/or his friends kill women, children, innocent civillians?

A. Microsoft.

B. Starbucks

C. GW Bush

D. Pepsi

E. McDonalds

...think that those poor Muslims....

Who? What "poor muslim?" You mean this child or this woman?

A mother rejoices after inflicting wounds on the head of her toddler

Dear innocent child,

How short a few weeks they were, when hunger was defeated by a brief suckle and fear was dispelled by the comfort of motherly breasts.

For so soon did the breast turned into a sharp dagger to mutilate you, and to paint your face not with the colours of playful joy, but with your own blood.

Do the cuts sting and hurt?

Is that painful drink too salty?

Are you very scared of that sharp dagger that "mother" is holding?

Are you confused as to why she smiles with satisfaction while you agonize in pain and fear?

Did you feel abandoned when she "hurt" you?

It is savagely too soon a burden upon you to know that you are indeed alone...but you do know... and your eyes reveal all about your painfully early discovery.

For the hand that holds that dagger, that mutilates you, that feeds you your own blood, that secures a smile of satisfaction for the culprit, is the deliberate hand of your own "mother".

She is all too keen to join Hussein in "paradise", and to her you are nothing more than her one-way ticket...

Who will you cry out for in pain and despair?

Not "mother", surely! And that is exactly when "Hussein" shall arrive to replace the mother you do not have, and to show you your ticket to "paradise"... Just like he did for her...

Thus you do not even cry anymore, and you no longer scream in fear and pain, nor do you beg being rescued by "mother" from "mother".

Yet your eyes speak aloud, as if they were 1400 painful years old...

And so they are, painfully old.

For no one ever "labkhand nahaad bar lab-e to". (put a smile on your lips)

Dear little boy, look there! There are your older brothers, who could cry no more when they were your age...

For not so long ago, it was them who were being prepared to become the savage creatures that can torture in their own turns and in later life.

Just as do those adults that torture you now in preparation for your turn...

Tortured little boy, who shall hear your silent cries?

Who shall stop you becoming like your father, or stop your sister becoming like your mother?

Who shall stop you doing to your children in time, what they do to theirs now...

Who?

It will not going be Hussein... for he is the pilot that shall deliver you to hell shortly after birth, by bringing the hell to you.

Dear little boy, my heart bleeds with yours, and my rage eats away at my patience, and I fear for the angel of justice that holds the scales without the sword.

By. Margazideh

yes, we have little in common.

[Caid Ivik]

Terrorism won't solve all "evil" in world market. Also it isn't against it, but against western might, against all of our european culture built! Do you think they're Bush, Gates and Las Vegas what caused Al-Kaida's plans for pope's assassinations? They don't fight against our money, but against us! Why? Because we are allied with Jews, which they hate because of Quran.

[Edric O]

Edric Supports what Bush did in Afghanistan.

...But Edric DOES NOT support anything else of what that pathetic corporate puppet did. Bush's one good deed in Afganistan doesn't redeem him in my eyes.

I am not condemning Bush for what he did with the taliban. I'm condemning him for all his autocratic internal policies, for sucking up to oil companies, for all his nationalistic statements, etc.

Quiz for you Edric. Lets play a little game. Look at the man below. Which US company is responsible for the pleasure...the near sexual excitement he gets when he points his gun at someone's head and pulls the trigger.

Wow, you seem to be an expert in this matter. Have you been getting sexual pleasure from killing people lately? ::)

Who? What "poor muslim?" You mean this child or this woman?

The fact that you are stereotyping millions of people based on a few deluded individuals sickens me. I cannot believe that you would sink this low...

Caid:

Because they don't give all GDP for their development? They aren't same country. Human should take pleasure on fruits of his work.

Work? They stopped working a long time ago. And if you want to "take pleasure in the fruits of your labour" while millions of innocents are dying of starvation every day begging for a piece of bread, then you disgust me. No one is telling you to give all you money away. In fact, I was making an appeal to GOVERNMENTS to give food and clothes in order to prevent terrorism, not individual people.

Tell me, how many people could be saved from a miserable death with the money wasted on a SINGLE DAY of gambling in Las Vegas?

As long as the West continues to bathe in luxury while the 3rd world is rampaged by famine, you may consider terrorism to be blind justice.

[emprworm]

I didnt stereotype anyone. What is the one thing all my images have in common?

That the governments in which these actions take place permit (!) those actions.

Read that sentence a few times, let it sink in. Because I am pretty sure you really do not have any clue as to what I have been saying.

" you may consider terrorism to be blind justice."

Which is why you and I have very little in common. Terrorism is never justice. Somewhere, in your hatred for capitalism, your heart lost its way.

[Caid Ivik]

Blind justice is famine of poor countries, which have lazy people, when you hasted me to be so rude. If Al-Kaida means "judgement" (also "caid" means it too btw), it doesn't mean they have the right to judge. Also how many people could be saved if Usama Bin Ladin would provide his millions to development projects instead of terrorism. His family do so.

And people work. Still, we don't live in perfect world, where manna from heaven falls to our mouths to feed us. Terrorism isn't about fightning for more help - that's also provided by Church, see "what caesar's and what God's is" - it's military offensive against NATO and Israel. Thing for governments, not market lords.

[Edric O]

Blind justice is famine of poor countries, which have lazy people

Let's see: there are thousands of children under 5 years of age dying of starvation every day. Please explain how exactly it is their fault. ::)

Or maybe you are just a selfish bastard, with no regard for the lives of innocents who never got a chance to work in the first place. And even if they did, you're telling me a man born in Nigeria has the same chances in life as one born in the USA? Oh please! ::)

That the governments in which these actions take place permit (!) those actions.

If you read back a few posts, you'll see that I accused those governments as well.

Somewhere, in your hatred for capitalism, your heart lost its way.

Oh yes, I'm certainly the one who lost his heart... you know, me, the idiot who keeps talking about preventing human suffering and building a better world... ::)

[nemafakei]

Empr,

Considered in isolation, I think the removal of the taliban is in of itself a good thing. But the criticism lies in the circumstances, motives (both alleged and actual) and subsequent conduct of the action taken in Afghanistan which begs disapproval of Bush.

To look at it from how Edric sees it, try to find all fault possible with the way things were handled, find hypocrisies in Bush's defence, rather than just accepting what he says at face value. Only until you have done that (for you act too stubbornly not to have done), will you see how Bush can be condemned - not for the good results he might have brought (despite less-than-perfect reasons, BOTH what he stated, and what he really decided upon), but the fact that he could do more, but shalln't.

[emprworm]

Let's see: there are thousands of children under 5 years of age dying of starvation every day. Please explain how exactly it is their fault.

edric, you are impossible. Did you just skip over THIS POST?

No, seriously, CLICK HERE . Make sure you look at the picture of a woman cutting the face of her baby.

now your question: just how exactly is that Bush's fault?

Or maybe you are just a selfish bastard, with no regard for the lives of innocents

Or maybe you are just a blind young man with such a balzing hatred for capitalism, you overlook the localized vile evil that is causing those suffering children to suffer and inflict suffering on others. Instead of looking at those who are directly raising these children and inflicting brutality on them so they can inflict it on others...you look the other way...out into the distant horizon, thousands of miles away....thinking that the US is to blame for the woman who is slicing up her own child.

And even if they did, you're telling me a man born in Nigeria has the same chances in life as one born in the USA? Oh please!

and who's fault is that again? Do you ever take your eyes OFF the US? Have you ever took a good, hard look at the local nigerian government? Or is your blind hatred of capitalism so intense that all you see when you look at Nigeria is thick fog? You need to take a good hard look at your own words:

" you may consider terrorism to be blind justice." Think about the evil in your words. Then tell me that this woman here is receiving her due justice. What did she do, again, that caused the horrible crime against her to be considered "just?"

If you call this "JUST" you are either a wicked person, or you are deceived. I would hope the latter is true, rather than the former. WHERE IS THE JUSTICE HERE?

There is too much hatred in your heart, Edric.

I pray that you will let go of it, because it could destroy you one day.

nema, and as I've said many times, the circumstances are irrelevant to whether an action was good or not. I really don't care what Bush's personal motives were, I care about the actual actions that were taken. And those actions morally necessary.

[Edric O]

Ah, my dear Emprworm, you went completely beside the point... Please pay attention to what I say this time.

Make sure you look at the picture of a woman cutting the face of her baby.

now your question: just how exactly is that Bush's fault?

Huh? Did I say Bush is responsible for all the evil in the world or something? ::)

This woman is a vile person who should be brought before the law and punished. But what does this have to do with anything?

I wasn't accusing Bush for the suffering of this particular child. I was accusing him for the suffering of the thousands that die of starvation, through no fault of their own. I was accusing him because he allows his country to literraly swim in money and live in opulent luxury, while he could save so many lives by simply cutting down on ridiculous, unnecessary expenses for the pleasure of the rich and famous.

you overlook the localized vile evil that is causing those suffering children to suffer and inflict suffering on others. Instead of looking at those who are directly raising these children and inflicting brutality on them so they can inflict it on others...you look the other way...out into the distant horizon, thousands of miles away....thinking that the US is to blame for the woman who is slicing up her own child.

Last time I checked, we lived in a global community. The fact that the US is "thousands of miles away" is irrelevant. And I already addressed the issue of that woman.

This "localized vile evil" would mostly dissapear if these people got better living conditions and a better education. But instead, you want to oppress and exploit them.

and who's fault is that again? Do you ever take your eyes OFF the US? Have you ever took a good, hard look at the local nigerian government? Or is your blind hatred of capitalism so intense that all you see when you look at Nigeria is thick fog? You need to take a good hard look at your own words: [...]

Oh, of course it's not the fault of the US alone. The real blame, as I've said, lies with the greedy, powerhungry multinational corporations. And them being multinational, you can't point to a single country. But Bush is one of their greatest puppets... err, I mean supporters.

The local nigerian government is made up of local nigerian people. People who never had access to the education and living conditions of Western nations.

Think about the evil in your words. Then tell me that this woman here is receiving her due justice. What did she do, again, that caused the horrible crime against her to be considered "just?"

If you call this "JUST" you are either a wicked person, or you are deceived. I would hope the latter is true, rather than the former.

Hello! Earth calling Emprworm! What does that murder have to do with terrorism? It's just that: a murder. In cold blood. Evil and despicable.

In fact, so is targeting civilians in a war, like terrorists are doing. However, they are justified in doing so because they fight fire with fire. They pay for blood... with blood. Of course, all this horrible mess could be solved by a display of honesty and good will, but we all know that corporations don't know the meaning of those words...

[nemafakei]

Aa to your last statement, Empr, that's passable when judging the actions, but not when judging Bush. Be aware of that at least.

Note also that the difference beween Nigeria and the US is a matter of approach. Nigerian politics and so on is a little more self-destructive, but the US is far more subtle in its corruption. Media manipulation (again, subtly... ever heard of 'spin'?), military supremcy and so on mean there's little to criticise.

[emprworm]

" Nigerian politics and so on is a little more self-destructive"

lol. Add this to the Fed2k award list:

Understatement of the year: Nema Fakei ;D

[Dude_Doc]

But people has been starving and dying before Bush got his power! They were so long ago. It didn't happen overnight!

And terrorism does not solve anything. Killing people and sacrificing yourself (suicide) only makes other people more aggresive. You accuse the US of not talking before acting, but what of the talibans. They didn't bring any messages to anyone, and if US media is "corrupted" and disinforms people, how come I haven't heard anything about it? I live in Europe, Sweden (as you can see), and here we have many people with arabian background and nationalities, and still, they blame bin Laden for what he did two years ago, because he has only given Islam a bad reputation. Of course they don't want the US to bomb their countries, but who really started? Did Bush after his elections just push the "Click here if you want war during your presidency time" button? No! If bin Laden hadn't done the terrorist attack, there wouldn't be a "war on terrorism". See, people in Afghanistan do not want the "iron grip", they want freedom, to do whatever they want to.

People can do anything they put their mind into. People in poor countries can't, because their government don't allow it, or because they are controlled by some terrorist faction. People are afraid. If we change this, the Middle East and Africa could be the future's superpowers. Isn't that what the US is trying to do? Remove the oppressor and give the people in the country freedom? Just because the US have lots of power, is the most "famous" country in the world, it also has a lot of enemies. But with the power, countries could be liberated from their oppressor. If not the US, then who? The UN? They don't do anything, and they don't deal in other nations problems. They are there to counter war and misery, which is good in a perspective. And last, each person on this planet can not be controled. Sure, the technology for this can be developed, but this is decades into the future I'm talking about. And if no one can be controlled, then the controlled won't have anything to rule. People will know if global domination is going underway, corporate, religious, or governmental, it does not matter. Every one of them loose their power if they try this direction today or at least the next 20 years. So be calm, Bush may not be the best president, but he won't control this planet.

[Acriku]

Dude_doc, if the government pushes hard enough, cough Bolshevik cough, poor people will revolt and take over the government.

[Dude_Doc]

That's exactly my point. The question is, why haven't they done so?

[Acriku]

Why haven't americans done it, or some other body?