You can't say you didn't see this coming...

[nampigai]

jeez why didn't I see this before? there's one word for it: Racism. I don't really think you can justify arresting on base of your belief and the skin of your color just because you might be a terrorists.

As for Nationalism it should be left over from old times, Patriotism too for that sake, when will we be able to see beyond borders, religion and color?

[Acriku]

So namp you don't believe in individuality? We should all be a conglomerate of bar codes and number identification?

If a country filled with blue people hiding within the cities of citizens and military that were also blue, and the blue people that were hiding went to country A and blew up many buildings for the sake of terrorism, and there were many blue people that came into country A the same way the terrorists did, would it not be necessary to detain them all and discover the terrorists hiding within them? It is a necessary evil, and that's that.

[TMA_1]

I seem to recall a certain man named Nimrod, who is an actual historical person, nimrood bar cush, who wanted to build a monument to show God his power in evil. He seemed to want to bring all people together into one government. God Scattered them. Nationalism is the only stable form we can have in this world.

[Edric O]

That was a long time ago, TMA. And times change.

Nowadays, nationalism is a force of pure evil.

[emprworm]

evil? how?

[Edric O]

Northern Ireland.

Cyprus

Bosnia

Kosovo

India and Pakistan

Do I need to go on?

[emprworm]

what does that list refer to?

I'm not getting your point. Was that in response to my nationalism question?

[TMA_1]

you are talking about podunk quasi or full nations.lol and who really cares about them ;) lol just kidding.

[Edric O]

The list gives examples of places where the evil of nationalism is self-evident. All those places were the sites of very recent massive bloodbaths commited by nationalists.

[TMA_1]

you list the bad but fail to point out the good. you also dont list the bad of globalism. which is a lot.

[SurlyPIG]

Northern Ireland, Cyprus, Bosnia, Kosovo, India and Pakistan

It's more complicated than that...

Northern Ireland isn't nationalism at all. It is VERY far from a united country. It's almost been a civil war, at times, between Catholics and Protestants.

Cyprus isn't all nationalism, more race and religion than anything. Ethnic Turks and ethnic Greeks.

Bosnia and Kosovo are just silly. Bloody, stupid wars with hate routed in the increasing actions of either side. They're just too damn stubborn. They say it's a racial issue, but who can actually tell the difference between a Serb and a Croat? I sure can't.

India/Pakistan...now is that ever volatile. That's a terrible mix of nationalism, of race (Arab and East Indian), and of faith (Hindu and Islam). And it's all over some mountains that are just about worthless.

[TMA_1]

true true ace but those "mountains" you speak of are beautiful and are treasured by both peoples. It is considered to be like eden to both of them. very important.

[Edric O]

you list the bad but fail to point out the good

Yeah, you're right, I should also list the good side of nationalism. Let's see:

1. Well, uh... ummm... errr...

Hey, wait a minute, there is no good side! Nationalism breeds only hatred, violence and wars. It does absolutely no good whatsoever.

Edit: Ace, is there really a difference between racial issues and nationalism? I think not. It's the same old "they're bad because they're different" mentality.

[Anathema]

The American independence war was succesful due to nationalism...but then again, it also caused the tensions between England and America in the first place.

[Acriku]

Well if it didn't happen, the tension would be still be there because the settlers would have the British breathing down their backs and have soldiers at every corner of the street.

[Edric O]

They weren't nationalists, they were freedom fighters. Their war was justified. They didn't just fight the British because they didn't particulary like them.

[Anathema]

Suppose so. But the English thought that they were better then the Americans, wich was nationalism.

[Edric O]

Yes, so? What the English did was by no means good, so my claim that no good can come out of nationalism stands.

[Anathema]

Yes, and I agree ;)

[Acriku]

Edric, do you mean that there is no good coming out of nationalism for the country that is being nationalist, or the world as a whole?

[Edric O]

The world as a whole, of course.

For example, Nazi Germany benefited from being nationalistic, but considering their atrocious crimes against humanity, no sane person could call that "good".

[Acriku]

Well think about it. America was nationalistic in the early 20th century, and it was called the Progressive Era. It was all about da USA. In that era inventions were made, innovations were done, basically propelled USA to a big guy on the world map. Now that did affect the world, and in a good way. Mass transportation, railroads, etc. I think that overall helped the world more so than bad. That's my opinion though.

[Edric O]

But do you have any proof that any of those inventions, etc. were in anyway caused by nationalism? Sounds more like people's desire to make money to me. :)

[SurlyPIG]

Nationalism breeds only hatred, violence and wars. It does absolutely no good whatsoever.

Nationalism, no. Countries are often good, though, because they unite people with similar values under one system. I think segregation is a terrible thing, but I honestly don't believe that a mass conglomerate of every race, birthplace, and religion can coexist. I mean, it would be fantastic if they could, but I don't see that happening on global scale yet. Some countries are there or almost there, but there are countries in Africa where tribes still kill each other.

Ace, is there really a difference between racial issues and nationalism? I think not. It's the same old "they're bad because they're different" mentality

Yeah, the mentality is identical and it's just as terrible, stupid and wasteful. Opposition based on nationality is no better than opposition based on race, religion, sex, height, foot size, whatever.

[nampigai]

So namp you don't believe in individuality? We should all be a conglomerate of bar codes and number identification?

If a country filled with blue people hiding within the cities of citizens and military that were also blue, and the blue people that were hiding went to country A and blew up many buildings for the sake of terrorism, and there were many blue people that came into country A the same way the terrorists did, would it not be necessary to detain them all and discover the terrorists hiding within them? It is a necessary evil, and that's that.

As I see it a nationalistic state would breed people and implant bar codes in their necks.

I can understand the American Paranoia to some extend but it still is racism IMO, it would be the same if the british started doing it to anyone with an Irish accent. Now if you were and Iran fugitive how would you feel like being detained? I for sure wouldn't feel welcome.

I think segregation is a terrible thing, but I honestly don't believe that a mass conglomerate of every race, birthplace, and religion can coexist.

You're right Ace as long as we have nationalism coexistence will be Utopia. And I don't just mean in US, I mean the world in general.

Damn this quote stuff thingy :P