Evangelion

[Caid Ivik]

And just from where you know there was an unused sequence of Shinji's ejection? Eva-01 was in space, and he personally survived. That scene won't fit to movie. Whole Evangelion is very surrealistic, that makes it beautiful.

Lilith lost her legs, AT-field, life and soul. How and why, I don't know, possible when she was "forever" paralyzed by Longinus' Lance. Rei carries her new soul, genetically engineered. There is possibility of why the Angels came. They were trying to prevent humans from becoming one in her, science's showing humans how use the AT-field, secrets of genetics and life. Trying to find and reanimate Lilith or Adam before humans will be able to do something, what isn't in God's will - what NERV and SEELE in End did. That "improvisional" cooperation was very hard to believe, if there were so hostile to each other...

About Gendo, you mean that hand-face showed just before the scene of meeting between Shinji and Kaworu! That was Adam? So, there are still many things to discover.

[Apollyon]

they had a page up about the deleted scenes on gainax.jp a while ago and I read it there as well as in a few other places and on some forums.

Lillith regains her/its legs when the lance is removed from her/it.

and the scene fits in after Shinji rejects Lillith (in Reis form) and Lillith explodes into showers of blood etc. and fits in just before we see the Seele evas plummeting to earth on their crosses.

[Caid Ivik]

That scene made movie 18+ only ;D

Power of Longinus' Lance wasn't explained in series? It is a nice negator of AT-field. Absolute weapon, able to kill anything, just with negating life. When Lilith was freed from it, she was prepared for her rebirth. Just they waited for Rei III, possibly most advanced, highest point of evolution...

[Apollyon]

um... I knew that...

it was also the spear that was thrown into christ by the roman soldier, Longinus when he was crucified.

oh and by the way the angels are not sent by god or have any connection to god, evangelion is simply about evolution to a higher plane of existence.

[Caid Ivik]

So, the God of humans was Adam. But Angels were more than just lifeforms. They were over life - remember Kaworu-Tabris' words when he was in hand of Eva-01? "Life and death have the same value at least in my opinion." They are like gods. Over this universe and time, higher beings. Like what became mankind after Third Impact, just angels were materialised in universe.

Not spear, japanese form "yari" means lance or pike. Longinus was a roman soldier, he ensured Jesus' death by strucking his heart with his lance. When water and lush blood flewn out of it, he was undoubtely dead. It is a symbol of death. When he was brought down, he was able to resurrect and salvate the mankind. Lilith has such work too, just her name makes this partially confusing. Demonologically, Lilith was something like a female Satan, also her twelve wings (sign of the most powerful archangels by middle-east myths - what Satan was before his fall) and bright shine (Lucifer means Angel of Light) are very like it.

[Apollyon]

although it is indeed referred to as "lance" in eva, it is in real life (ie not in japanese) called the spear of longinus, simply as a lance is used by cavalry men and a spear by foot soldiers.

Remember that we ourselves are the 18th angel and that (acording to assistant director Kazuya Tsurumaki) all religious symbolism in the series and films were merely intended to distinguish the series from similar mecha anime.

[Caid Ivik]

That's why it's better using word "yari", what is ultimative. Like slovak "kopija", but spear means more like a javelin. Spear is one- handed and lance is two-handed. Because of it is better to translate "yari" as "lance". Altough Eva-00 threwn it as a javelin against Arael, it is based on roman lance. We became a new angel. We all. Religious (or better middle-east mythological, very much is from jewish cabaal - for example names of those angels) symbols are making it fitable into end of the world theme.

[Apollyon]

yes but we also begin as the 18th angel, we dont become it, we become the soul inside Lilith (which is the only soul that can evade destruction) and then Shinji decides against it of course...

And the spear of Longinus is simply how it is referred to in real life so theres no real arguing against it, especially as its in some museum somewhere (its blatantly a fake tho ::))

thought id add the quote from the assistant director

Q) Is there religious meaning to Evangelion?

A) No. Evangelion is not, and never was a religious anime and does not contain any direct commentary on the world's religions. The Judeo-Christian elements it contains are simply plot devices used to convey the story. Nothing more.

The cross shaped explosions, the Kabalah, and all other references do have religious roots and do have relevance to Evangelion but it is very important to remember that Eva is a work of fiction and should not have it's symbols taken that seriously. I think that Mamorou Oshii (director of "Ghost in The Shell" and "Patlabor") described religious elements in anime best when he said "These are used as the prototype for the stories; not for religious reasons, but for ideology and literary inspiration".

Finally, at the Otakon anime convention held in 2001, assistant director Kazuya Tsurumaki (who was the director of The End of Evangelion: Episode 25' Air - while Anno personally undetook The End of Evangelion: Episode 26' Sincerely Yours and acted as Chief Director) was asked directly what relvance Christianity had to Evangelion. This was his reply:

Tsurumaki: There are a lot of giant robot shows in Japan, and we did want our story to have a religious theme to help distinguish us.

Because Christianity is an uncommon religion in Japan we thought it would be mysterious. None of the staff who worked on Eva are Christians.

There is no actual Christian meaning to the show, we just thought the visual symbols of Christianity look cool. If we had known the show would get

distributed in the US and Europe we might have rethought that choice.

So, while Evangelion's basic plot elements are borrowed from some religious texts and myths, they merely act as inspiration for a different story. They are just there for aesthetics. Evangelion also borrowed several elements from earlier Tomino anime shows. Evangelion owes more to Ideon, than it does to Revelation.

[Caid Ivik]

So, I don't know about older anime much, before 1999 I even haven't knew what it is. Give me URL link there.

I wasn't seeking religious meaning of it. If I would, I will doom it as a heresy ;D Reliability on one person to ensure salvation is a western think also, creators used it brillantly. Mystical things makes the right atmosphere. What really fascinated me, was how precisely was made Shinji's psychological image. Why was the chosen that alone, scared boy, without trust and real love from others, waiting only when everyone will betray him?

[Apollyon]

go to http://www.evaotaku.com

look at the eva FAQ its quite interesting.

[rogue1896]

jeez. holy shit. you guys are really taking this away. lol. i had to go to sleep, then go to school. i get back and i see a shitload of posts. lol. i've never heard of half this stuff. also i've forgotten most of it. which really pisses me off. my bro took the whole series including all three movies with him to college. so now the only anime i get to watch here is escaflowne, gundam wing, and gundam 08th team. >:(

but caid, you really should watch the series. death is good, but it doesn't explain it all. it'll be a lot better if you've seen the whole thing.

and when i was talking about adam fused onto gendo's hand i meant that in the series. i know they show it in the movie but i'm saying i never saw them show it in the series in any of the episodes. they show adam that one time when gendo shows it to kaji but they don't show it on his hand

also, what do you guys think about the angels being another form of man? i think i remember most of misato's speech about the angel's when she was driving shinji through the eva graveyard. she said that the angel's were another possibility of the ultimate being on earth but sadly, we cannot coexist in harmony. if either of you can tell what she actually said that would probbaly refresh my memory. i'm going to be getting the series back on the 21st tho so i'll rewatch the whole thing again. gotta love christmas break.

[Apollyon]

Q) Who is the 18th Angel?

A) Mankind is the 18th Angel. Misato reveals this to Shinji as she takes him to Eva-01's hangar in the film Air. It has been suggested that Misato was being sarcastic when she said this, but watching the film you will be able to see that there is no sarcasm in her voice nor is there any reason that she would be joking at such a critical time.

Also, in the Japanese script book EVANGELION ORIGINAL III, Episode 24, page 38: After Kaworu is killed by Eva-01, there is a SEELE monolith scene which was eventually cut from the final episode. In this scene, Keel says: "All the Angels born of Adam have now been destroyed, making humankind the last remaining Angel. The promised time has come - the time to place a soul in Lilith and cleanse this impure world."

(Translation Courtesy Bochan Bird)

The Angels, as described by Misato Katsuragi, are "Humans without human form."

the scene of gendou's hand with adam attached was deleted from the series but was shown in the directors cut edition or in the pure japanese episodes (non-dubbed) as these were re-released AFTER the dubs were completed.

[rogue1896]

so then she was serious about the angel's being "humans that did not take the human form." basically seele was trying to eliminate the angel's to complete their ideal of the "perfect world" within lilith.

and while i'm thinking about it. what did kaworu mean when he called eva 2 adam's dark shadow. i understand what he meant about serveant of the lilum. did he mean how eva unit 2 and all the evas for that matter resembled adam? b/c they show that picture of the white light from the second impact and it actually looks almost identical to unit 1.

[Apollyon]

noooo

eva unit 1 is 1 of the few evas cloned of Lilith

the other evas (including unit 2) are cloned from Adam.

[rogue1896]

i was just saying that adam looked like eva 1. you can't really tell at all though b/c they have it all white. which is probably what it was. that would explain my question about what kaworu meant. thanks a bunch. that series is really confusing the first time you watch it but once you re-watch a few times you get the picture. also it helps if you have someone to consult and say, "What the hell am i seeing here?" that's why i liked the commentary from the movies so much. they could explain every small detail. also it's pretty funny ;D

ironically i just thought of this. i'm really confused about it. it's absolutely hilarious and i've never understood it. in the beginning EoE when the JSSDF and the UN combined forces attacked NERV they show that one guy guarding the entrance standing backwards. why would you guard the inside of a base. wouldn't you want to look toward the entrance? then the guys walk up and stab him. and i love the commentary of it.

"Don't worry folks that's just the jelly sandwich he was eating for lunch." ;D

[Apollyon]

yea the commentary is pretty funny ;D

[rogue1896]

why does he guard the inside tho? is he trying to make sure there are no deserters or something like that? kinda pointless. but i guess it was to fit the plotline ;)

which also reminds me. how the hell did the un and jssdf get throught the baightlight(sp definitely) infusion. the LCL i mean. how did they get through that?

lol, i just seem to be reminding myself righta nd left

[Apollyon]

oh you mean the bakelite infusion

only certain sectors (1-3 I think) were flooded, and the soldiers, I think, either went a different route or blew through the weak points.

[rogue1896]

man i really should just rewatch it. it's been way too long since i've seen it. i still remember the first time i saw rebirth. i was on the edge of my seat the whole time. and then they show asuka throwing the ship and whatnot (with that little leonardo decaprio ;D ) and then they show the evas circling. and asuka's words, "The Eva series. It's been completed." just the way she says it and the way the evas circles nerv. and then the tamashii song. god i almost through something at the TV at the thought of having to wait for it to come out. that whole movie and series was done to perfection. and as for those poeple who didn't like the end of the series. well you just didn't understand it enough. if you can understand it you can appreciate it more. anime is not ALL about HUGE mechs destroying each other.

[Apollyon]

yea. Did you watch the dubbed versions or the subbed versions before the movies were on general release?

[rogue1896]

i saw death and rebirth dubbed the day it came out. and then i had to wait until EoE came out from that day. that was a couple of months if i remember correctly.

[Apollyon]

heh I bought subbed versions from Japan ages ago =)

[rogue1896]

>:( well i'm actualy not all that angry. dubbed makes more sense for me. when i watch something it's easier for me to hear and understand it rather than have to read the subs and miss half the action. i downloaded the last episode of Cowboy Bebop from kazaa and it was in japanese. now i just use it to watch the last 15 or so minutes. the original japanese dialogue usually makes more sense but i have seen multiple instances where the english dubbed was better. mainly the fact that the va who plays asuka actually speaks german from time to time.

and btw, va = voice actor.

[rogue1896]

and also since i just remembered, what do you think about this rumor i heard. my brother once told me that evas 0 - 2 symbolized the seven eyes of god or something. 0 had 1, 1 had 2, and 2 have 4. 4 + 2 + 1 = 7. :- i'm not sure if its true or not tho. however anno made a lot of little things like that. for example in EoE, when shinji and misato are in the parking garage, the number is 667. the neighbor of the devil.

[Apollyon]

well hes right that the number of eyes are symbolic but it isnt related to christian religion - its related to that of the ancient Babylonians. Their Gods each had different number of eyes, such as marduk and Unicron. Indeed if you listen to the commentary for Death it tells you this.