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homosexuality and where it stands morally

TMA_1

By TMA_1
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TMA_1

TMA_1

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Whoa! big big topic. can ya guys handle it? hehe :) So what do you guys think? No flaming or being mean to anybody here. Its my birthday and I order it to be so... granted this will run even after my birthday but still! follow the commands.lol :) What do you guys think? Please let this be an intelligent discussion and nobodies opinion is worse than any others. I believe personally that it is either a health problem from the past because most lesbians and homosexuals I know, which is surprisingly a lot, have had deep sexual problems at childhood. Also it could be a genetic flaw. Sometimes this happens and people do unnatural things because of genetics. That is my personal opinion. That it is not correct to do and therefore is immoral. Please p ost you guys' opinion on it and no flaming. I welcome all opinions. :)

emprworm

emprworm

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lets take two possible moralities:

Lets assume that evolution is true, there is no God, and thus no right and wrong.

In the case of evolution, we can use empirical scientific data regarding homosexuality since it is observed in nature among other animals. In evolution, the weaker species not only is inevitably eliminated, but it is SUPPOSED to happen that way. Homosexual animals in nature are an abborition. Whether a social one, or a genetic one (if genetic, then it would be an unbeneficial mutation). They are weaker, and unable to propogate, hence their survival is doomed. They are bypassed in natural selection and thus, as observed time and time again in scientific observation, they are elmininated. Nature does not offer them special rights or protection. They are naturally 'unselected' and thus eliminated. Is this right? No. Is this wrong? Nope. there is no right and wrong, remember? Its just how it works. Called natural selection.

now lets assume that there is a God and that God is according to the Bible. In this case, homosexuality is an immoral sin.

either way, it is a no a win situation.

Anathema

Anathema

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I read an article some day. Muslims aren't allowed to have sex with women before marriage. About 30 % of the men in Iran (I believe it was Iran, but I could be wrong) had sex with other men before marriage.

Well ::)

Anathema

Anathema

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I don't even remember where I read it from. Probably a magazine.

Recently, there has been a great deal of uproar about a muslim Imam in the Netherlands. He said that homosexuality is a disease and that homosexuals were lower ranked then pigs. Eventually the charge of discrimination against him was dropped because of the right for religious freedom.

emprworm

emprworm

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charge of discrimination was dropped

well i should hope so!!!

how can you be charged for discrimination simply for expressing your opinion? Discrimination occurs if you deny someone a job or soemthing like that.

any nation that mandates speech is not a free nation, but a dictatorship as far as I'm concerned.

If you wanted to say "All people with blue eyes are scoundrels" you have every right to say that!!

If you refuse someone a job for their blue eyes, NOW we have discrimination.

nampigai

nampigai

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I don't believe in total freedom. In Denmark we have it, the Nazis are allowed and the Islamic fanatics had meetings where they told their members to seek out jews and kill them. such political organisations should IMO be illegal.

emprworm

emprworm

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if they do not actually kill anyone or make direct threats against anyones life, then they should be fully permitted to hold their views. If your government is going to outlaw thought and and vocal utterances, then i have no respect for your government. words are nothing more than soundwaves being produced from vocal vibrations whos source are merely the thoughts of another human being. If you are going to try and regulate these simple sonic vocal utterances which harm no one, then that to me speaks very low of your government.

Anathema

Anathema

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He said stuff like "homosexuality is a disease" and "gay people are lower then pigs". You can imagine that the gay part of our population felt insulted. Making racist statements alone is a punishable offence in the Netherlands.

nampigai

nampigai

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but free speech can be dangerous, when the Islamic fanatics starts killing it's too late to declare them illegal.

The Nazis showed how they thought the world should look during WW2, they shouldn't be allowed any second chances.

emprworm

emprworm

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He said stuff like "homosexuality is a disease" and "gay people are lower then pigs". You can imagine that the gay part of our population felt insulted. Making racist statements alone is a punishable offence in the Netherlands.

this is very very bad for the Netherlands. You shold be able to say whatever you want. If you get offended just because one homosapic bipedal anthropod has a subjective opinion about you, then you are a weak person. Regulating speech is very very dangerous, and if you take this path to its conclusion you can see some very abhorrent places that it takes you.

I hope such laws will NEVER come to pass in the US.

If you live your life whining, and crying like a little baby just because some 100KG 1.8M bag of mostly water bipedal carbon-based temporal lifeform called you a "PIG", then you, as far as I'm concerned, are no better than the loser that called you a pig. Get over it. Dont regulate speech and make it criminal to have an opinion. That is sick and repulsive. A governments job is not to be my daddy. I dont want my government telling me what I can and cant believe or say. I dont want a government regulating my personal opinions.

This is to anyone who thinks a government should regulate opinion:

Are you so weak, that you cannot withstand someone's opinion?

i think that is one reason why I would never live in the Netherlands. That is a really really BAD law.

Anathema

Anathema

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Caid, that's dumb. Homosexual people aren't attracted by members of the other gender.

Emprworm, I said the guy was an Imam. That's sort of a muslim bishop (I'm not sure about ranks in the islam). Do you realise what impact that has? He's instigating hatred among muslims against homosexuals.

And if think we whine to much about racism and discrimination, keep in mind that your country wasn't ran over by nazis in 1940 and that in your country there was no systematicaly eradication of jews and homosexuals.

nampigai

nampigai

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yes I guess I'm weak then

but lets say we're back in the thirties and a new man starts becomming popular for racist statements, he has all rights to do so it's his opinion.

emprworm

emprworm

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in my country there was a sytematic eradication of Japanese people. We didnt kill them like the Nazi's, but we put them in concentration camps. Something I am horribly ashamed of.

Yet anyone in our country should have the freedom to dislike japanese people.

THREATENING people is illegal, however.

Here is the dangerous road you travel.

Identify which of the following statements is illegal and deserves criminal punishment in the Netherlands:

1. Homosexuality is an abborition

2. homosexauls are pigs

3. homosexuality is sinful

4. homosexuality is unnatural

5. homosexuals are gross

6. homosexuals are not normal

7. homosexuality is strange

8. I believe homosexuality is wierd

9. I believe homosexuality is wrong

10. I believe homosexuality is disgusting

11. I believe homosexuality is evil

12. I believe homosexuals are sinful

13. I believe homosexuals are warped

14. I believe homosexuals are vile

15. I believe homosexuals are pigs

Ok, thats enough. I hope my point is getting clear. When you start walking down that slippery path of regulating speech, soon you get to the point where ALL OF THOSE statements are illegal.

Is that really what you want?

Anathema

Anathema

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It's up to the judge to decide if someone is out of line when it comes to statements like that. If an imam would say "homosexuals are the spawns of Satan and must be eradicated", he would have been thrown in jail. But he didn't say that and he wasn't jailed.

Caid Ivik

Caid Ivik

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Caid, that's dumb. Homosexual people aren't attracted by members of the other gender.

You call it "reversed orientation", I call it "mental abomination". Those second I ment are bisexuals. It is vile thing, altough some of them aren't responsible for it.

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