Spew All About Politics Here

[emprworm]

if what I am doing is illegal, then such a society really does not have freedom, nor does it have private property in any meaningful sense.

[Anathema]

Emp wasn't violating copyrights in his scenario- he was burning his own music.

[emprworm]

ill be the first person to admit the US government needs some reform. I have identified the 3 primary problems in the US system:

#1: health care

#2: manipulation and corruption of the stock market by corporate execs who rip off small investors (i think our government is FINALLY coming down on this crap. people making hundreds of millions of dollars by sucking the small investors dry through lies, manipulation, and deception)

#3: voter fraud and voter manipulation. this problem is a widespread plague. The more you research it the more frightening and unbelievably corrupt it becomes. I can elaborate on what is going on here if anyone wants to know

And the #1 problem in the worldwide economy:

#1. Reliance on oil

all MHO, of course

[nemafakei]

"then such a society really does not have freedom, nor does it have private property in any meaningful sense"

Well, here is where rights and property and things collide. You see, assuming you have "right" to copy information for your own profit, you destroy the author's rights to distribute his own work, and thus feed himself. Making copying and redistributing CDs illegal is one way of maintaining authors' copyright.

[Acriku]

Emp wasn't violating copyrights in his scenario- he was burning his own music.

Duh! If you read my post you would understand what I said.

[Anathema]

Then in what possible way was Emps business a violation of the law ::)?

[Acriku]

I'm not fluent in the books of law, but I remember from a history class that for that magnitude of selling for profit, you would need permits, etc. It's a complicated process.

[Anathema]

I didn't specify permits that would be required in my society (pesky details- I only defined major points in my society).

[emprworm]

Well, here is where rights and property and things collide. You see, assuming you have "right" to copy information for your own profit, you destroy the author's rights to distribute his own work, and thus feed himself.

Nema, I was referring to my own music that I composed.

[DukeLeto]

As for Duke Leeto's statement:

JSYK, it's illegal to charge for burned CD's in the US.

he did not read what I said. I said MY songs, I wasn't referring to selling copyrighted material privately owned by someone else. Selling one of my own songs in the US is perfectly legal.

1. No, it's not. you would need a permit to sell them in such large numbers; that's become a business.

2. Jeez, for a Dune fan, you think you could spell "Leto".

[emprworm]

1. No, it's not. you would need a permit to sell them in such large numbers; that's become a business.

2. Jeez, for a Dune fan, you think you could spell "Leto".

You a politician? You sure sound like one. You cant change your story now. You said (and I quote) "JSYK, it's illegal to charge for burned CD's in the US"

You said nothing about "large numbers". Your first statement was 100% wrong. And now, lets move on to your corrected statement. It too, is 100% wrong. I can sell as many CD's as I want, and I do not need a permit to do it. I take it you are not from the US.

[Anathema]

He is.

[DukeLeto]

1. No, it's not. you would need a permit to sell them in such large numbers; that's become a business.

2. Jeez, for a Dune fan, you think you could spell "Leto".

You a politician? You sure sound like one. You cant change your story now. You said (and I quote) "JSYK, it's illegal to charge for burned CD's in the US"

You said nothing about "large numbers". Your first statement was 100% wrong. And now, lets move on to your corrected statement. It too, is 100% wrong. I can sell as many CD's as I want, and I do not need a permit to do it. I take it you are not from the US.

Um, yes, I am an American. And yes, it is illegal to:

1. Charge for burned CD's if it is by another, publisized artist.

2. Run a business from your home without a permit.

[Edric O]

#1: health care

#2: manipulation and corruption of the stock market by corporate execs who rip off small investors (i think our government is FINALLY coming down on this crap. people making hundreds of millions of dollars by sucking the small investors dry through lies, manipulation, and deception)

#3: voter fraud and voter manipulation. this problem is a widespread plague. The more you research it the more frightening and unbelievably corrupt it becomes. I can elaborate on what is going on here if anyone wants to know

And the #1 problem in the worldwide economy:

#1. Reliance on oil

Finally, we're getting somewhere! :)

I completely agree.

But you see, these are the chronic problems of capitalism. #2 and #3 have been slowly building up for the past 200 years. There are only two solutions now:

1. Erase all present money and property (complete economical "reboot") and go back to the embryonic capitalism you had right after your War of Independence. But then it will start slowly sliding away again, and you'll be back to the present situation in another 200 years.

2. Replace capitalism with a completely different econimcal system, like the one I suggested.

You see, every system has a certain "lifetime" after which it inevitably becomes corrupt and dysfunctional. The only solution is to get a fresh start. That's when a new system comes to replace it...

[emprworm]

Um, yes, I am an American. And yes, it is illegal to:

1. Charge for burned CD's if it is by another, publisized artist.

2. Run a business from your home without a permit.

Well, sorry about the false assumption. Regarding point #1. I am fully aware of copyright infringement, I was referring to my own music. Point #2. I do not need a business license to sell CD's out of my home anymore than I'd need a license to see something on ebay. Only in 3 states do you actually need a business license for a home business where you are an actual business. In the rest of the US, selling out of your home requires no license whatsoever so long as you don't have any employees. Having employees means you need a license

[emprworm]

But you see, these are the chronic problems of capitalism. #2 and #3 have been slowly building up for the past 200 years.

lol. they are chronic problems of the UNITED STATES, not capitalism. There are plenty of ways to fix this within capitalism. Lol edric. We do not need a new government to fix voter fraud and stock market manipulation.

There are only two solutions now:

rofl. You are funny man. We are already begining to clamp down on problem #2. Simply pass laws and enforce them. You are too extreme. Revolution is not the end all cure for all of societies problems.

[Edric O]

Why only patch the flaws, when you can remove the flawed system altogether?

And those problems are not restricted to the US. Most capitalist countries are suffering from #2 and #3:

#2: manipulation and corruption of the stock market by corporate execs who rip off small investors (i think our government is FINALLY coming down on this crap. people making hundreds of millions of dollars by sucking the small investors dry through lies, manipulation, and deception)

#3: voter fraud and voter manipulation. this problem is a widespread plague. The more you research it the more frightening and unbelievably corrupt it becomes. I can elaborate on what is going on here if anyone wants to know

[emprworm]

Why only patch the flaws, when you can remove the flawed system altogether?

and replace it what? another system with even more flaws?

socialism is far worse than anything it would 'fix'.

I'll take our US problems any day than give up my freedom for socialism.

voter corruption is easily fixed.

Stock market corruption is harder to fix, but very fixable.

health care is the same.

revolution not needed.

most importantly: revolution not wanted

[Edric O]

Not socialism. You know very well that my system is NOT what you would normally call "socialism".

And I'm not saying you should replace capitalism with MY system. I'm only saying it's about time to replace it with SOMETHING better, before it gets much, much worse.

It is insanity to believe capitalism will last forever. Sooner or later, it will be replaced. It is already corrupt, and sliding down ever further. No more improvements can be made to capitalism. Time to move on.

[emprworm]

edric, I know your system is not traditional socialism. But it forbids private companies, private schools, probably private (fill in the blank). Sorry, but i am an individual. I am unique. My purpose in life is not to conform to a society. I serve my society as an individual. I use the word "I" when I refer to my personal dreams and hopes. Only I am accountable to God for MY life and my actions...no one else. If I want to start a private club or a business, I should have the freedom in my government to do so. I should not ever be mandated to fork out the efforts of my labor to everyone else, nor do I have any desire whatsoever to have their labor and their life's work mandatorily handed to me. It is a cowards society, and one with no honor. I'll be poor, destitute and honorable any day before i take a single dime of someone elses money or creative genious that you took by force.

i think we in the US will find a much better solution to our problems.

[DukeLeto]

Remember, capitalism creates FAR more losers than winners. for every prosperous man, there are hundreds of people in poverty. Just a note.

[emprworm]

Remember, capitalism creates FAR more losers than winners. for every prosperous man, there are hundreds of people in poverty.

what is a "loser?" Last I checked, even the lowest income people in America still are vastly better off than the lowest income people of many other countries. If a "loser" in your book is anyone not as rich as Bill Gates, then fine. I guess capitalism makes losers. But I'm not that greedy, so even though I make virtually nothing, I call myself a winner because I'm in a free society and I have freedom to start my own business.

[DukeLeto]

My definition of "loser" is low income in AMERICAN standards. We have more money, sure, but the cost of living is higher, too.

[Acriku]

Your situation is very different from selling on eBay. For one your selling is at a much higher rate than simply "putting up an ad on eBay for a cd", and you don't see people selling their very own swords made from wood and metal on eBay in the matter you sell your cd's. Also, you sell cd's at a profit over what it costs to buy cd's and the time it makes them.

[emprworm]

and you don't see people selling their very own swords made from wood and metal on eBay in the matter you sell your cd's.

oh, sure we do Acriku