Technology of the Dune Universe

[TMA_1]

[attachment archived by Gobalopper]

[Caid Ivik]

Do you know about other spaceship types used in Empire?

[TMA_1]

Yes. there are hundreds of different kinds of ships but it seems they are put in a catagory called frigates. Many different shapes and sizes of them from what I can read. Then you have ships like the Moniter. These ships are so large that they need to break into some eleven different parts when in the atmosphere. They seem to be largely military.

[Caid Ivik]

Oh, yes, Monitor and Crusher (in slovak "Drvič"), but those are only military dropships. But I mean starships, ships able to fly between star systems. Or the highliner is only type?

[TMA_1]

in the post jihad era. yes the only craft able to reach from star to star safely is a heighliner. too slow and uncontrolling any other way.

[Vanguard3000]

After the reign of Leto II (i.e. Heretics and Chapterhouse), the No-ships had their own individual drives, guided by Ixian machines.

[Caid Ivik]

But after Leto's reign also Guild lost its monopole to travel space. Wasn't Guild using smaller interstellar versions of heighliner?

[gryphon]

The cilindric highliner is the largest. It is for interstellar travel.

Monitor ships are just ships that fly in low / high orbit and are monitoring. This can be military [ as mentioned most in the books, but scientific monitoring should also be possible ]

In the "early" days the Guild prohibbeted others to have ships with interstellar capabilety. So all others must be planet based or shuttles that could go up and dock with an highliner.

Ornithopters are an example of planet based airships, shuttles to and fro the highliners and military combat ships are an example of planet-to-sky ships.

A NO-Ship is just a "stealth" ship. The type doesn't matter although al NO-Ships mentioned where capable of space flight.

After Leto II, when the Guild lost there monopoli on space travel all houses got there own interstellar ships.

So to your question of highliners where the only ones. In a certain period the where the Guild was the only organisation allowed to orgenise interstellar travel. And the highliner was the means to do that with. Later on there came losts of others types / ships capable of interstellar travel.

[Vanguard3000]

In the "early" days the Guild prohibbeted others to have ships with interstellar capabilety. So all others must be planet based or shuttles that could go up and dock with an highliner.

The Guild didn't prohibit ships with FTL (faster-than-light. I say this because it's never specified as to how they work) drives. After the Great Revolt, the technology needed to navigate said ships had been destroyed.

[ordos45]

http://www.dune2k.com/community/articles/warfare/

Its an article on the site which explains most of the military in the Dune Universe in outline form. Shields, lasguns, etc.

[TMA_1]

So somebody really has been reading the articles. Awesome.lol I thought I was the only one. The articles though dont explain many things. they are awesome though.

[gryphon]

The Guild didn't prohibit ships with FTL (faster-than-light. I say this because it's never specified as to how they work) drives. After the Great Revolt, the technology needed to navigate said ships had been destroyed.

It was not about technology.

The Great Convention prohibited others then The Guild interstellar space travel.

[ this so order could be forced, and some other reasons .. ]

[TMA_1]

C.E.T. With the great convention, focused on the religious and political aspects. Ecumenisism finally came into being and the orange catholic bible was made. Also the idea that no machine can compute chaotically. That the only kinds of computer systems were the kind that could only process data and set it to work. no thinking computers or machines.

the guild was established because spice was the alternative for navigation of ships in fold-space. There simply isnt any faster way of traveling. There is no ban for people to travel through fold-space without the guild. Just simply put, the guild is the only way to travel through fold-space. If engines that could think randomly and then take that and force it to order. a thinking computer. than you would break the laws of the convention.

Moniters are not just planet bound. They travel through space as one mammoth machine. Then before they enter the atmosphere the ship breaks up into 11 parts. if it came down as a whole machine it would undoubtedly crash.

We dont know the shapes of the heighliners. The movies show them as a cylinder, but I see problems in that. I believe more likely that it is a sphere in shape. Not how the movie or the prequels reveal it to look like.

[gryphon]

The shape of highliners is mentioned in the books.

[ not alone in the prequels ]

And so is the monopoli on space travel by the guild. Could be Dune I but I'm not shure.

Besides that, one of the DVD versions has a intro explaining the Dune univers that mentions the Guild monopoli on space travel.

[TMA_1]

thats exactly what I said about the guild monopoly.lol

also where in the books does it explain the shape of the heighliners? I am not arguing I really want to know if I messed up. where exactly does it talk about it?

[Vanguard3000]

TMA: In HA, they describe the first Dominic Class Heighliner "rolling" off the production line. I've never heard a description of them in the Chronicles though.

[TMA_1]

I think the rolling part has to do with the fact that they kept "rolling" them out. You know one of those old sayings like pumping out the stuff.

[Vanguard3000]

That's not the description in the book. I meant they describe what the Heighliner looks like in the scene where Leto, Rhombur, etc, watch the first Dominic-Class fold space out of the bay.

That's what I meant with the "rolling" part. Not that the heighliner was actually rolling away. :)

[TMA_1]

oh yeah okay I get it now. Still though it doesnt look like a cylinder. Also I dont trust the prequels with exact information. anything from frank?

[gryphon]

the guild was established because spice was the alternative for navigation of ships in fold-space. There simply isnt any faster way of traveling. There is no ban for people to travel through fold-space without the guild. Just simply put, the guild is the only way to travel through fold-space.

This was what I was refering to. Besides the fact that the Guild is the only one with "fold space" technology they are als the only ones allowed to move people and cargo on interstellar trips.

I thought it was mentioned when Paul first boarded a highliner on his way to Arrakis. Just looked for it, couldn't find it though . ..

And that "rolling out" part is not to be taken literally. They just "disapear" from the dock as mentioned in the prequels.

[TMA_1]

Its not that they control fold-space engines. (though they pretty much do.) Its the fact that they have the only source of navigation that gives them the monopoly. The only other way is illegal during the post jihad era: Thinking computers.

[gryphon]

That's not what I mean.

Even if some one else [ besides the Guild ] whould have the fould space engines [ the Ixian do ::) ] they arn't allowed [ by the Great Convention ] to transport people and / or cargo on interstellar journey's.

The Guild are they ownly ones allowd to do that.

Just as phone companies is some countries. Just one is allowed. Others have the technology but the government just allows one company [ usually under the controle of the government ] to set up and maintain the network.

Also think of the railroad monopoly many European countries had. The technology can be used and bought by anyone. Only the government just let's one company axcually have a railroad net.

Same with the Guild. Besides the technology, they had the monopoly on interstellar transportation. [ others could buy it from Ix. The Harkonnens probbably had enough spice after there years of stocking the stuff to buy one small highliner. But that would be worthless, they couldn't use the thing. ]

[TMA_1]

No it doesnt work like that. The only reason the spacing guild has the power is because they are the only ones (Maybe the B.G. as well) that know how navigators are made and how t ouse the spice for navigation.

[Vanguard3000]

yes, what TMA said. That's what I was saying earlier. For about 108 years, there wasn't a single ship in existance that could move at FTL speeds. The technology used to navigate such ships were prohibited by the pseudo-religious laws which were created after the Great Revolt, and any existing navigation machines were destroyed in the Revolt.

[Caid Ivik]

Railroad isn't same as space travel. Railroad needs much land, so its logical they are usually built by government. Only in some capitalistic countries there were some rich companies, able to do as huge project.

But for space travel, you need only ship and supplies. Guild has monopol because of its research of spice and partially religious power. Also in post-Leto era they lost it.