How much different is Emperor?

[Navaros]

I was an atr player for a long time and more recently hark, and I can say that I can't think of any game that I've lost because of a bug in the game. If I lose, I have the ****s to admit that the other person is probably better....it doesn't bother me. Maybe your game is jussst sooo well refined that all your losses come due to these bugs.....maybe.

And even if its hark and ordos players saying this, that still wouldn't explain why you didn't want to play atr players such as sarb. As atr, he should experience the same "problems" defending the spice. Then, there are players such as him and Thoxen who do just fine against hark and ordos players despite these "bugs."

In my opinion, these problems aren't reason to get upset or not buy the game. If you came to this message board, you must want to play the game ;D

Okay, a lot of you still don't "understand" exactly how the harvesting bugs can be exploited. Here is another, of many, many, many, *MANY* ways in which the lack of ability to control your harvesting, as the developers intended you to be able to with the Refinery Waypoint function, can cause losses.

Atreides have huge mobility issues unlike any of the other Houses. On the map I played Viet1987 (the guy who DC cheats everyone and gets the Win just before he is about to lose the game, see his record and/or the thread about it for proof), I almost lost simply because I could not control my harvesting. This guy is a mad-NIAB-user. He builds tons of NIAB tanks and Fremen Warriors. To properly counter his NIABS, I need tons of Fedaykin. If I waste time building Fremen Warriors instead of Fedaykin, I would pay when I have 25+ of his NIABS in my base.

Now, in this game some of my harvesting was just south of my base entrance. There was a *huge* spice field there with ample spice for any number of harvesters. Even though I built my Refineries pretty much all to the right-side of my base since that is the side closest to the spice field that I was defending-well, my harvesting *still* went all over the map. Even though every Refinery of mine had a Refinery Waypoint set in the same Spice Field I *wanted* my harvesting to be in.

I had that Spice Field to the south of my base defended so well that he simply could not break through the defense there. However, since my harvesting was all over the map, he could just teleport NIABS to the other sides of the map, and kill all my harvesters in those spice fields. Using Fedaykin in this situation does not work because he has millions of Warriors ready to take them out. I can not use Warriors myself because if I did build them in sufficient-enough numbers to take out his Warriors, I would not have enough Fedaykin to handle his Guild. He doesn't need Fedaykin so he builds Warriors constantly, and sprinkles them all over the parts of the map where I can not defend. If I try sending bikes or anything else to kill them, his NIABS would have massacred my bikes. The only way to defend the other Spice Fields would have been to leave an inadequate defense in my main Spice Field, which would have resulted in him killing all of my defenses easily since they are split into small, weak groups and his entire army is worth a lot more than just 1/3 of my army.

By teleporting Guild to the other Spice Fields, he was able to kill 2/3 of my economy even though he should not have been able to kill ANY part of my economy since the designers of Emperor ***INTENDED*** for you to be able to tell your harvesters *exactly* what Spice Field to harvest in with Refinery Waypoints. If all my harvesters went where I told them to, he would have killed hardly anything, and I would not have had to struggle to beat him, and it would not have taken me 3 hours to beat him.

There is no reasonable way to cope with these bugs for Atreides. If I split my defenses up, he would have took $30 000 worth of his units to kill $10 000 worth of my units, and done it 3 times if I split my defenses 3 ways. To split my defenses and try to adequately defend 3 seperate Spice Fields only to have the Hark or Ordos player attack 1/3 of my defending forces with his ENTIRE army, would result in sure defeat. Defending multiple Spice Fields is not always feasible and it shouldn't *have* to be because Refinery Waypoints are *SUPPOSED* to work. If they did, I'd hardly ever lose any games (1 vs 1, that is), ever, except to guys like ACE.

Whoever says harvesting bugs are not major, either:

1. Doesn't play QM, and only plays a few of the popular 4-player maps (koth crater, knife fight, fisher's plain, spice bowl, worm garden, cradle basin) . This is the majority of the Emperor community. More players only play 4-player skimmish games on these maps than those who play QM. Those who play QM have a diverse experience on all of Emperor's many maps, including the 2-player maps and 3-player maps. People who only play skirmish on a few maps have no idea what the harvesting bugs are like because they don't *see* the harvesting bugs since their experience is limited to only a small part of Emperor.

2. Hark or Ordos rushers who never defend their spice, like I discussed earlier in this thread, so they have no clue how bad the bugs are because they accept the loss if their spice is attacked with a big force because that means that all of their units are already dead. These type of guys are elite players who use almost *every* one of their units to be in the enemy's face constantly, so spice defense is irrelevant to them. They don't see defending spice as a necessary part of Emperor hence they don't bother to notice the bugs.

3. Some people are just plain dumb. They could notice the bugs I have mentioned 10 000 times and still not admit that they are bugs.

[undsputed]

Well, I'll admit that you gave a good example. It's been a while since I've come across a dedicated guild user...especially since I don't play 30k games usually.

I will say that sometimes the harvesters don't follow the instructions....but I still don't think that has caused me losses before.

[sneezer3]

din't anybody read what he said?

navaros, i found out that there can be an max. of like 3 harvesters (money collecters) on 1 spice field, IF you have more like you do (7refinery's and all upgrades = 21 harvesters) then you'll get some trouble with the harvester bug...

and btw. i enjoyed the single player par a lot and i never EVER EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! got ANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 trouble with ANY!!!!!!!!!! bugs, and even today i got VERY LITTLE!!! trouble with the bugs in the game >:(

[nemafakei]

Hmmmm. Interesting. I agree that this is a problem (As a modder, I know Aprit Chard inside out, and I get that bug there as well), but there is little that can be done about it, except micromanagement. The 'reality' of dune would, of course be that a lot of your time would be spent supervising harvesting operations, but this error does give players with certain tactics an unnecessary avantage. (which would not be the 'reality' on Arrakis...)

[GhostHunter]

THAT IS IT!!!!!! NAV I THINK I SPEAK FOR EVERYONE WHEN I TELL YOU TO STFU!!!!!! ALL YOU DO IS COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW THE BUGS EFFECT THE GAME AND HOW THIS AND THAT IS CHEAP!!!! ITS NOT BECAUSE OF BUGS OR CHEAP UNITS ITS BECAUSE YOUR A LITTLE IMATURE FREAK WHO DOESNT HAVE ANY SKILL AT THE GAME AND B*CTHES ABOUT HOW SOOOOOOOO MANY THINGS ARE WRONG WITH IT! IF YOU DONT LIKE IT, DONT PLAY THE GAME, NOT THAT HARD TO FIGURE OUT!!!!!! Until next post, Vilgent.

[Navaros]

Hmmmm. Interesting. I agree that this is a problem (As a modder, I know Aprit Chard inside out, and I get that bug there as well), but there is little that can be done about it, except micromanagement. The 'reality' of dune would, of course be that a lot of your time would be spent supervising harvesting operations, but this error does give players with certain tactics an unnecessary avantage. (which would not be the 'reality' on Arrakis...)

Micromanagment? That is no solution. You stop all your harvesters, send them to the correct spice field, then as soon as they dock at the Ref they will be right back in the wrong spice field again. There is *no* way to micromanage this problem so it corrects itself, just as there is no way to micromanage the problem away when harversters are clumping (unless you get *really* lucky eventually, but that is a matter of sheer dumb luck and lots of wasted time while your enemy is building things and you can't build anything).

PS: Vilgent you have no clue what you are talking about and I'd like to see you rank higher than me in QM at the end of a month if I am playing QM in that month, but I don't think that'll ever happen 'cause you're a newbie and a former hobbtz. LOL

[GhostHunter]

I'm the newb here? Whos the freak goin round saying Da big ass devaitor needs to be downgradded, the rocket tank needs to be downgraded, this game sucks, all of the bugs ruin it. No my dearest nav YOUR the NEWB.Until next post, Vilgent.

[GhostHunter]

And P.s you probally would rank higher, because I dont quit when a guy rushes me under 3 min, I dont duck people, and I dont quit when I get a bad spot on the map. And when I do loose I dont come flaming on the boards yelling THIS IS IMPOSSIABLE TO BEAT! IT NEEDS TO BE DOWNGRADED!!!Until next post, Vilgent.

[Taqwa11]

Emperor is the best RTS I've ever played. It's cheap right now, too. At Sam's Club, it was on sale for 15 dollars. I just bought a copy on E-bay for a friend, and it cost me $2.26!

[Seal89999]

Navaros you dont know wtf you talking about and you suck at the game so just stfu! >:( You make your self look like you all that and are a really good player but you dont know squat and 4 the little you do know you stress it and when you lose a game you say WW was at fault! Learn how to play the game and then dont act so cocky!