Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Cm_blast

[Release] Jorney to the past - a Dune 2 kind of map

Recommended Posts

Here, I created a new single map using the Dune 2 tileset. On this map Ordos try to rewrite history going back in time to the beggining of the war, but they end by mistake in 1992, a time period where Ordos didn't exist, so the Atreides and Harkonnen join to face that new enemy.

The story it's just an excuse, what matters it's the gameplay from the game. I tried to emulate the old Dune 2 behaviour as much as I could. Not only using the tileset, but trying to make the AI to act like it is 1992 again, including the well know team bug that prevent the AI to group units to attack.

List of Dune 2 behaviour for this map:
*AI "Cheat" on the money they got, to avoid running out of credits.
*No wandering units around the base, just the normal units placed on the map.
*AI passive until hostilities begin (via reinforcements or if the player goes too far).
*Both Enemy and allied reinforcements dropped on some random spots.
*The Atreides won't use the Fremen expected from Dune 2000 but dune 2: visible Fremen spawns an amount of units (bewteen 5-10) in a different spot each time (with some kind of limit).
*Atreides don't train Troopers. Harkonnen don't train Infantry and don't build Trikes.
*The Sandworm won't spawn unless you scout certain areas. They don't fully dissapear (not possible in Dune 2000) but a sandworm shooted/feeded will remaining in sleeping mode for near 18 in game minutes.

Mission v1.0 & Mission v1.07 + fix
The single map includes two versions, one based on Dune 2 v1.0 and another one inspired on Dune 2 v1.07 plus the extra fix. The briefing tells the player the changes on that second version compared to the first one. The most noticeable, it's how the "team bug" it's fixed and now the AI will group vehicles to attack too.

Screenshot:
Double click to enlarge the imagen.

1693471812_Journeytothepast.thumb.png.8f97ab3f06fdc82343de01461d777f2a.png

File and instrucctions:

Journey to the past.zip
UPDATE: Edges, corners and concretes are now buildable; the are where the player starts is smaller (less rock area) but you will have the same room to build buildings as before. Other smaller editions to avoid players to deploy a refinery separated from the base without using a MCV. The image provide on top doesn't match 100% the current, but it's the same map overall.

Each corefile needs to be copied in thes same path that I created the zip.
The missions have both versions separated. Both maps can be hard and take times to beat due the low amount of initial money given to the player plus the non-stop production of the AI (even if he send units 1 by 1 there is never time to rest).

BLOXRETR.R16 it's a core file needed to play the map at all. Won't mess your game so don't worry about this.
COLOUR.BIN will overwrite the original and alter your game with new colors for the main houses. This is an optional file.
DATA.R16 will also overwrite the original altering the game. This changes the default crates generated when you shoot the ground for a the ones from Dune 2. It's also an optional file.

Map is still playable withouth the modded colour.bin and data.r16, only bloxretr is required (and this one won't alter you game).

Edited by Cm_blast

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for this! This map looked interesting so I gave it a try.

I played some real Dune 2 recently, so being familiar with its gameplay style, I was just amazed how you managed your mod to be as close to Dune 2 as possible. The "enemy unit approaching" message and changing music is how I imagined these new events would be used. The enemy behavior and way of defeating enemy bases and guarding units was pretty faithful.

It looks very interesting how you managed to script random enemy reinforcements (I mean, the initial reinforcement may appear on one of three possible places randomly) and how enemy starts to build units and attack you after these reinforcements. You made some sort of "hack" with the events and flag conditions chains. Also giving Hark or Atr barracks, light factory and heavy factory to three different sides is nice hack how you make attacks of groups of infantry, light and heavy vehicles.

There are still some differences from real dune 2 which could, but mostly could not be replicated with Dune 2000, like enemy having IX and sending special tanks (in Dune 2 they don't), spice won't be destroyed when shot, concrete in enemy bases cannot be built on, "static" spice blooms, and some other details which I don't mind.

However there are two things I disliked (these are rather related to the tileset):
- You cannot build on the edges of rock area (in Dune 2 you can and it's more fun to play like that) - changing this would really improve gameplay and fidelity
- The thick spice doesn't look good (it's cut on some sides) - just visuals

But still, great work! Will you make more maps in this style? (didn't try your Dune 2 campaign yet)

Edited by Klofkac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Klofkac said:

Thanks for this! This map looked interesting so I gave it a try.

Thanks to you for playing!

2 hours ago, Klofkac said:

I played some real Dune 2 recently, so being familiar with its gameplay style, I was just amazed how you managed your mod to be as close to Dune 2 as possible. The "enemy unit approaching" message and changing music is how I imagined these new events would be used. The enemy behavior and way of defeating enemy bases and guarding units was pretty faithful.

On my dune 2 based campaign, Once you introduced the addition of the "play sound" was one of the first things I added, although in the dune 2 based campaign the audio/message triggers more closely to the enemy units dropped, not when they enter (here I went straigh to the same timer).

2 hours ago, Klofkac said:

It looks very interesting how you managed to script random enemy reinforcements (I mean, the initial reinforcement may appear on one of three possible places randomly) and how enemy starts to build units and attack you after these reinforcements. You made some sort of "hack" with the events and flag conditions chains. Also giving Hark or Atr barracks, light factory and heavy factory to three different sides is nice hack how you make attacks of groups of infantry, light and heavy vehicles.

And if the game didn't have a limit to script I would like to make enemy units that spawn out of nowhere when you reach X specific square and going against the player. The "ambush" order. But that would required at least 7-10 tile revealed more to do it propertly.

2 hours ago, Klofkac said:

There are still some differences from real dune 2 which could, but mostly could not be replicated with Dune 2000, like enemy having IX and sending special tanks (in Dune 2 they don't), spice won't be destroyed when shot, concrete in enemy bases cannot be built on, "static" spice blooms, and some other details which I don't mind.

They have at mission 7 the IX centre, they lost it at mission 8 for whatever reason (I guess building limits or something). On my map both factions have the Palace which doesn't happen either on the game (only 1 have the Palace).

Of course, the other things are dune 2000 style like the spice that no dissapear; the concrete I had a tile which you still could build on top of it. It behaves as normal rock so placing a building over that concrete the building still have 50% HP. The reason I changed that it's because then would appear crates on top of the concrete but the concrete (tile) still appear, looks really bad. And the bloom, I wish one of those 4 limited blooms behave to a "only once deploy".

2 hours ago, Klofkac said:

However there are two things I disliked (these are rather related to the tileset):
- You cannot build on the edges of rock area (in Dune 2 you can and it's more fun to play like that) - changing this would really improve gameplay and fidelity
- The thick spice doesn't look good (it's cut on some sides) - just visuals

The main problem it's how dune 2000 works. Besides how blocky can appear (just like in Dune 2), the main problem are the crates. The crates on dune 2000 don't generate at the middle of the tile but in bewteen the tile you are shooting and the tile on top of that.

If the upper-side tile it's shoot, the crates will take half the sand, so I prefer having this way.

I know I am sacrificing fidelity with the rock-edges, but look:
crates.png.56a393f515e8e20e1cc5029467bc5ebc.png this is what happens with the crates, they appear on the tile on top of the one being shoot; and this is using "blocky rock tiles", now imagine if I use the edges as buildable area.

The thick spice, unfornatelly, generates at random, wich means I can only use a limited set of tiles or only 1 tile for all but... which one? The full block just look too blocky; and the others, well, you know, random corners, random all. And the 1 tile only thick spice in a big field doesn't look like you are into a big mine field at all, but like cheese or something like that.

If Dune 2000 thick was like the normal it could be easy to add, but nope, 4 random tiles, any combination will look bad.

2 hours ago, Klofkac said:

But still, great work! Will you make more maps in this style? (didn't try your Dune 2 campaign yet)

Just keep in mind that campaign although it's also close and heavily inspired it's much less closed to the source material. Overall the timers have been speeded, like instead 12 minutes takes 8 or something like that. Loops works all the time and the reinforcements are doubled (it's not the same figthing 1 tank and 1 trooper in dune 2 that in dune 2000); you start with 2.5 amount of money compared to the original and things like that.

Although in this map, this "jorney" I place the reinforcements as "vehicle - triple infantry - vehicle" so, if you play on easy, you still get a "vehicle - infantry - vehicle" so they keep the original reinforcements.

Dunno if I do more like this. For example the last map it's impossible to recreate with the amount of Ais required, even on this I wanted to drop imperials being troopers, but since no AI available (but the sandworm one, but that can't be activated) then I was forced to choose Atreides-Harkonnen sides and use Sardaukar instead.

But I may use the tileset at some point in a campaign.

By the way, did you play both versions of the same map?
I added a few "bugs" on purpose for the sake of the version xD.

Edited by Cm_blast

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I changed the concretes pre placed on the map, which weren't buildable now they are. You can place concretes on top of those other concretes (but if you place a building will act as if there weren't any concrete at all, keep that in mind), will create crates when shooted, etc... I realize that sometimes crates are created even on top of concretes, I don't know how (the ones you build are mean to be destroyed when shooted, so dunno); for this reason I just decided to add a new concrete-tile that behave as buildable; but only that one tile in the middle of the tileset, so... now you can capture any AI building and expand your base at you will.

first post updated, file updated.

Edited by Cm_blast

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/23/2019 at 10:32 PM, Cm_blast said:

Once you introduced the addition of the "play sound" was one of the first things I added, although in the dune 2 based campaign the audio/message triggers more closely to the enemy units dropped, not when they enter (here I went straigh to the same timer).

I actually think that having longer delay between the message and units dropped is better. The player has slightly more time to prepare for that, and it gaves more sense to me. I think it is even more like this in original Dune 2 - the message is told when enemy carryall enters map, not when units are dropped on ground.

On 10/23/2019 at 10:32 PM, Cm_blast said:

And if the game didn't have a limit to script I would like to make enemy units that spawn out of nowhere when you reach X specific square and going against the player. The "ambush" order. But that would required at least 7-10 tile revealed more to do it propertly.

Just wondering (a little off-topic) if Dune 2000 could be modded to support more events and conditions.

On 10/23/2019 at 10:32 PM, Cm_blast said:

The main problem it's how dune 2000 works. Besides how blocky can appear (just like in Dune 2), the main problem are the crates. The crates on dune 2000 don't generate at the middle of the tile but in bewteen the tile you are shooting and the tile on top of that.

If the upper-side tile it's shoot, the crates will take half the sand, so I prefer having this way.

I know I am sacrificing fidelity with the rock-edges, but look:
crates.png.56a393f515e8e20e1cc5029467bc5ebc.png this is what happens with the crates, they appear on the tile on top of the one being shoot; and this is using "blocky rock tiles", now imagine if I use the edges as buildable area.

Well, not sure, just thinking, when you use the Dune2-graphics craters, it will probably not look that much bad. Don't remember, but craters in Dune2 could generate on border tiles as well?

So in my opinion, for me it would be more fun to be able to build on border tiles (like in original Dune2), while having craters on them which "don't look that good". So you can give it a try.

On 10/23/2019 at 10:32 PM, Cm_blast said:

For example the last map it's impossible to recreate with the amount of Ais required, even on this I wanted to drop imperials being troopers, but since no AI available (but the sandworm one, but that can't be activated) then I was forced to choose Atreides-Harkonnen sides and use Sardaukar instead.

You could save some AIs by using only two AIs to a side (Atr/Hark) instead of three. Like merging part of base having only barracks with the part having light factory.

On 10/23/2019 at 10:32 PM, Cm_blast said:

By the way, did you play both versions of the same map?
I added a few "bugs" on purpose for the sake of the version xD.

Yes, I tried both. I actually fully finished the first (buggier) version and noticed that famous revealed tile on bottom-right corner of map. Pretty good mimic to the original (but originaly, I was not even thinking it was a bug).

I also tried the second version for comparison, but did not finish it (destroying all enemy base was quite time consuming).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Klofkac said:

I actually think that having longer delay between the message and units dropped is better. The player has slightly more time to prepare for that, and it gaves more sense to me. I think it is even more like this in original Dune 2 - the message is told when enemy carryall enters map, not when units are dropped on ground.

It's the other way: https://youtu.be/X3fec0zzGFg?t=800
You can see the Ordos carryall entering the screen but the line it's not told until it dropped some troopers.

2 hours ago, Klofkac said:

Just wondering (a little off-topic) if Dune 2000 could be modded to support more events and conditions.

I leave that for thsoe code-programmin-breakers guys, I honestly have no idea. Fey will be happy (but, I feel like we both will fill the room available anyway xD).

2 hours ago, Klofkac said:

Well, not sure, just thinking, when you use the Dune2-graphics craters, it will probably not look that much bad. Don't remember, but craters in Dune2 could generate on border tiles as well?

So in my opinion, for me it would be more fun to be able to build on border tiles (like in original Dune2), while having craters on them which "don't look that good". So you can give it a try.

I am currently playing my own Dune 2 campaign using the retro-style; and I Feel like not building on those tiles feels a bit wrong... so yeah; I am taking in consideration to actually change the tileset and make 9 tiles as buildable.
The 4 corners, the 4 sides (top side, bottom side, left/rigth sides) but also you can see there are other 4 tiles that are really small... all but 1, the one looking to the right it's acctually buildable (I just pick dune and build a concrete on top of it to be sure you actually can).

When I finish playing my own Atr campaign with the actual set up; I will do the change and try to play another house using the expanded version; will make building a base much more easy (will give the player like 2 rows and 2 columns of extra space). I will look what the overall feeling is, and if It is not too wrong, I'll change those tiles to be also buildable.

Of course, this specific mission, "jorney to the past" I will reduce the rock area available for the player, but since you will can build on tiles you couldn't before it should be the same amount of room to build as before.

2 hours ago, Klofkac said:

You could save some AIs by using only two AIs to a side (Atr/Hark) instead of three. Like merging part of base having only barracks with the part having light factory.

But then how you make the AI to actually build 1 trike and sending it to attack but keep grouping infantry?
I could get use of proportions to place 1 trike per 7 infantry, but even then, that AI:
a) will build 6 infantry straigh, meanwhile, no extra trikes or quads are produced (and waiting outside the factory since the infantry AI it's using a delay time bewteen attacks)
b) infantry are much slower than the other vehicles, when the fast vehicles died and the infantry are still on his way (or figthing whatever other unit you have alone), the AI won't produce any infantry anymore while but producing several trikes/quads that attakc together due the time bewteen attacks, big enough to group at least 2-3 vehicles togheter.

Placing together heavy and light factory Ai's it's a bit the same; this AI already struggle to get a full rotation of the 4 tanks, and that's just thanks that I place tons of dunes to slow doen the enemy AI. If they share the AI, I doub you will see devas/sonic tanks, or even missile or siege tanks (but you may argually said that dune 2 behaves a bit like that, like producing 2-3 siege tanks and only combat tanks if not enough money to build the siege one).

2 hours ago, Klofkac said:

Yes, I tried both. I actually fully finished the first (buggier) version and noticed that famous revealed tile on bottom-right corner of map. Pretty good mimic to the original (but originaly, I was not even thinking it was a bug).

I did a record for a channel (the video on the link it is myself playing it) and, because the owner of the channel want to make it as international as possible and using the original material; I asked MrFlibble to let me know the "clean" copy (no bug-fixes, no super-dune-changes, no altered versions, even for the anti-copy question) and he told me about the version v1 which I wanted to patch into the v1.7, somehow I did it wrong, so I found the reveal map on the bottom side and thinking "well, this is weird... but I am used to the european version in spanish, so maybe the US version it's this way".

I knew I wasn't playing the correct version because the AI didn't ever cheat, on 1 map he was sending 1 missile launcher per wave... literally, no quads, no infantry, just a missle launcher... and on the next map with the starport disable the whole game... because AI has his own starport... only when I took the starport I could do orders myself, but here I was 100% sure "ok, not just because it is the us version, this is not v1.7 at all".

Patched the game and all was fine.

And since in this forum there are a couple of post talking about the differences bewteen v1, v1.7 and the "fix" It was easy to me to find what things I could affect; like the trooper for Atreides, on the final mission on dune 2 you get a squad of three troopers; I always like to preserve these guys alives, since it's the first and last time you will use it; wait until I spawn fremen and, if they spawn near my area, I send my own troopers and join the raid (talk about fun strategies xD).

2 hours ago, Klofkac said:

I also tried the second version for comparison, but did not finish it (destroying all enemy base was quite time consuming).

True.
Well, since this is only a single map I don't mind lasting for a while.
The dune 2 campaign based shouldn't take this long figthign 2 enemies, not just because you have a much better start in credits, but the enemy don't make use of a emergency value, so attacking or not attacking the AI still builds always at a 500 ticks, which it's not too much too figth against.

Edited by Cm_blast

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/4/2019 at 11:14 PM, Klofkac said:

So in my opinion, for me it would be more fun to be able to build on border tiles (like in original Dune2), while having craters on them which "don't look that good". So you can give it a try.

Alright guys; check the first post.

I updated the file. Now you can build on the edges; of course, the rock area around the player base now it is smaller because the point it's controlling a bit the room available; overall, you will have the same exact buildable tiles as before (maybe 1 or 2 squares more or less).

Because of that, I changed a part of the surrounding rocking areas, players now can reach an area it shouldn't and deploying a refinery or things like that withouth recurring to a MCV; now you can still expand a bit (concretes and maybe turrets) but I removed a bit the available area so you cannot place a 3x3 building.

The other amount of rock-islands are the same as before; same size (thus bigger room to build); but those are fine since you need an MCV before. Same for the enemy's bases; they are the same as before but on a few parts the building (or the concrete) it's touching a sand tile, just like in Dune 2.

The "fake" Concretes are also buildable, so you can do whatever you want into the enemy's inner base.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...