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[WIP] Harkonnen Campaign progress thread

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4 minutes ago, Runtowin said:
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Most of the game, Imperial force kept 1 quad in that right side, because I had to move my force out to protect my harvester, and he lost his job. He didn't even move one inch, you know.

I saw 1 quad, 1 grenadier, 1 light infantry from mercenary at Smuggler's base after I destroyed their CY and production buildings. Not significant IMO.

 

Spoiler

That's weird. There are usually more Imperial forces at that defense zone and more mercenary forces at the other. I'll see about adjusting it, I suppose.

 

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Played mission 2v2 and 3v1.

Spoiler

To me mission 2v2 seems almost the same as the last time I played. Maybe this time there were a second missile tank wave that before it wasn't; don't remember right now.

I think I just did the same as the last time, first taken top-right side, then top-left, then the bottom one. The only different thing I did was building the outpost early, so I intercepted 1 message.

Mission 3v1.
I am guessing this time the map works as intented: Destroying a few smuggler buildings, receiven unlimited reinforcements, and then the smugglers reborn and become another enemy.

Personally I don't know if I prefer the reinforcements or taking out the smugl/merc to avoid the future fight with all those units they receive and build later.

Overall I play the map as the last time I did. Only difference using the reinforcements and took me less time to win.

Now, the briefing said something about "Atreides attacking now that they force you to retreat" (something like that). However, the Atreides attack are laughable: 1 grenadier, a few minutes later 1 trooper, a few minute laters 2 light vehicles and 2-3 infantry-troopers-something... and that's it, I was on the attack at this moment so no much for any Atreides attack.

The only remarkable attack were 4 raiders and 7-8 infantry when the smuggler were still preparing.

 

Edited by Cm_blast

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6 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

Played mission 2v2 and 3v1.

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To me mission 2v2 seems almost the same as the last time I played. Maybe this time there were a second missile tank wave that before it wasn't; don't remember right now.

I think I just did the same as the last time, first taken top-right side, then top-left, then the bottom one. The only different thing I did was building the outpost early, so I intercepted 1 message.

Mission 3v1.
I am guessing this time the map works as intented: Destroying a few smuggler buildings, receiven unlimited reinforcements, and then the smugglers reborn and become another enemy.

Personally I don't know if I prefer the reinforcements or taking out the smugl/merc to avoid the future fight with all those units they receive and build later.

Overall I play the map as the last time I did. Only difference using the reinforcements and took me less time to win.

Now, the briefing said something about "Atreides attacking now that they force you to retreat" (something like that). However, the Atreides attack are laughable: 1 grenadier, a few minutes later 1 trooper, a few minute laters 2 light vehicles and 2-3 infantry-troopers-something... and that's it, I was on the attack at this moment so no much for any Atreides attack.

The only remarkable attack were 4 raiders and 7-8 infantry when the smuggler were still preparing.

 

Spoiler

Yep, more Missile Tanks! And I made some adjustments to defense zones and Imperial resources, but they don't seem to have helped much. Did you get the message where Durant says he'll send troops to guard Sumadi's base?

Yeah, sorry about H3V1 being broken the first time. XD This was one of the earliest concepts for a Harkonnen mission I came up with, so I'm glad it's finally working properly.

The reinforcements on this mission are without a doubt the most effective reinforcements in any mission I've designed. You get constant deliveries up until Summers turns on you, and considering the Atreides' choke point being tough to break through, it does help plenty! Once the Atreides go down it ain't too hard to take down the smugglers, but they are a capable adversary if left to build up and stuff.

I'm glad it took less time to win! That means the reinforcements are working, no doubt. :D

Huh? Man, I dunno why I can't get the AI to cooperate. In my version, they attack fairly often with a decent force. I guess I'll tweak it again and see what happens...

Thanks for testing, Cm! Good luck on H3V2-H5V1.

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On 24/3/2018 at 7:31 AM, Fey said:

Did you get the message where Durant says he'll send troops to guard Sumadi's base?

Yes.

On 24/3/2018 at 7:31 AM, Fey said:

Huh? Man, I dunno why I can't get the AI to cooperate. In my version, they attack fairly often with a decent force. I guess I'll tweak it again and see what happens...

The few test I did for the defense areas I saw the AI doing different stuff in the same situation. When I show in the other post (one of yours I think) and created 2 defenceareas, sometimes the AI split the units between the 2 areas and new units are prepared to future attacks. But I also remember pressing the test button again withouth barely editing anything and looking how the AI send all the units but 3-4 to 1 defence area; because of this new units will go to the defece area 2 to fill it.

Even the traditional spawns works different too. I can place a 10 unit spawn timer=1 and usually the 10 units are going to patrol the base but I also saw too that sometimes a few of those units are grouped as an attack force, making the first AI attack a bit stronger that intented.

Maybe we are pushing the game too far.

New Edit:
Mission 3v2 map it's broken.
 

Spoiler

I destroy the north merc base first. Since when I scout I saw that base starting to build a refinery I rush to take it down before become to strong.

Game told me something about being a risky move; well, the bridge choke it's a total destruction for their units by using my own grenadiers, more easy since a VCM it's delivered. 

But, to the point After clearing the first merc base to the north I went against the one to the left aaaaaaand, Crash. A loop of infantry it's spawned making the game crash, a flag over there it's wrong or something.

 <--- Yep, infinity spawn :P.

I decided to continue playing but destroying the ref last, so I take out the rest of the north-west base. I barely am using quads for all these early missions. At least using the bridge as a choke full of grenadiers, infantry and a few troopers it's enough to destroy anything that moves. Then the few quads-troopers that are alive are enough to take out factories, barracks or whatever.

 

There it's a game crash; a bad flag or something, need to look asap.

New edit bis:
Also played mission 4

Spoiler

I did my part of the job. Then I help a bit my ally until no factories were left (I ignored windtraps and stuff like that).

And the rest just was choosing how/when/where to attack the enemy. Only a few waves come at me, but they seem to fill different zones with units, like the in middle area. Because of that I found some fremen by accident; Iwanted to retreat my 5-6 tanks into my base but that area was filled with some tanks and quads, so I went to the top area and there were are. I take the oportunity to take them down, but I did bad; I should wait to use a bunch of infantry, but anyway, Atreides didn't launch any early big attack so I didn't care too much about loosing more tanks that intended.

From there just attacking 2-3 times alongside my ally and win.

It's the first time I played this mission, so for now all are surprises to me.

Edited by Cm_blast

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6 hours ago, Cm_blast said:
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I destroy the north merc base first. Since when I scout I saw that base starting to build a refinery I rush to take it down before become to strong.

Game told me something about being a risky move; well, the bridge choke it's a total destruction for their units by using my own grenadiers, more easy since a VCM it's delivered. 

But, to the point After clearing the first merc base to the north I went against the one to the left aaaaaaand, Crash. A loop of infantry it's spawned making the game crash, a flag over there it's wrong or something.

5ab654115ead6_Broken2.png.23e26c9f3b8bcb6dd84c108e1240d94b.png <--- Yep, infinity spawn :P.

I decided to continue playing but destroying the ref last, so I take out the rest of the north-west base. I barely am using quads for all these early missions. At least using the bridge as a choke full of grenadiers, infantry and a few troopers it's enough to destroy anything that moves. Then the few quads-troopers that are alive are enough to take out factories, barracks or whatever.

 

There it's a game crash; a bad flag or something, need to look asap.

Oh, crud. I wonder how I broke that. Okay, I'll have a look and see what the heck I did wrong. lol

6 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

Also played mission 4

  Reveal hidden contents

I did my part of the job. Then I help a bit my ally until no factories were left (I ignored windtraps and stuff like that).

And the rest just was choosing how/when/where to attack the enemy. Only a few waves come at me, but they seem to fill different zones with units, like the in middle area. Because of that I found some fremen by accident; Iwanted to retreat my 5-6 tanks into my base but that area was filled with some tanks and quads, so I went to the top area and there were are. I take the oportunity to take them down, but I did bad; I should wait to use a bunch of infantry, but anyway, Atreides didn't launch any early big attack so I didn't care too much about loosing more tanks that intended.

From there just attacking 2-3 times alongside my ally and win.

It's the first time I played this mission, so for now all are surprises to me.

Spoiler

No early attacks? What the heck? They send plenty for me lol

Uuuugh, more stuff to fix. :P Thanks, Cm. I hope you enjoy the bonus mission and level 5. :D

 

Edited by Fey

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1 hour ago, Fey said:

No early attacks? What the heck? They send plenty for me lol

At the beggining they were sending lonely units. Then after a while (the mid area covered with stuff) they send a big attack. After that yes, they send a few more attacks from time to time until I advance against them. 

Edited by Cm_blast

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I'll see if there's anything that might screw the H4V1 AI up. Thanks!

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Finished the available campaign.

Spoiler

Bonus map:
First enemy attack wipe out my north base... and that's it. I loose a few other buildings of mine (hard to know what buildings are mine and what not). Although the map was harder than the previous versions, even with the 50 units patrolling their area wasn't enough to stop me to destroy them. They had time to attack me once with a good force, later were only some infantry type of attacks against my left base; I don't know if he send tanks or not, I was looking at my south base.

Map lasted 25 minutes or so. I failed a couple of times because I lost the sonic tank (I was thinking that the eengineer was "myself", but once I realice it that tank was placed in a safe area and that's it).

I would like to read that text when you defeat the Harkonnen; the mission accomplished didn't gave me anytime to read.

Mission 5:
Probably there is a defence area in the south area to your ally. Well, he only send 1 infantry there. At some point he died that unit and send 1 grenadier instead. Probably better without anybody around, didn't want my ref to get blocked by ally units.

I don't know about using the black colour in this situation: I didn't care in the "blitz attack" map, but here with a bigger and more open map it's a bit hard tracking when my ally it's attacking or figthing a group in the middle of the map. 

It's hilarious the message that appear when you are attacking the main base of the Atreides "Harkonnen are destroying our main entrance (or something like that) and I was "yeah, I know; I was there" xD.

With this the maps are officially completed!

Edited by Cm_blast

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4 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

Finished the available campaign.

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Bonus map:
First enemy attack wipe out my north base... and that's it. I loose a few other buildings of mine (hard to know what buildings are mine and what not). Although the map was harder than the previous versions, even with the 50 units patrolling their area wasn't enough to stop me to destroy them. They had time to attack me once with a good force, later were only some infantry type of attacks against my left base; I don't know if he send tanks or not, I was looking at my south base.

Map lasted 25 minutes or so. I failed a couple of times because I lost the sonic tank (I was thinking that the eengineer was "myself", but once I realice it that tank was placed in a safe area and that's it).

I would like to read that text when you defeat the Harkonnen; the mission accomplished didn't gave me anytime to read.

Mission 5:
Probably there is a defence area in the south area to your ally. Well, he only send 1 infantry there. At some point he died that unit and send 1 grenadier instead. Probably better without anybody around, didn't want my ref to get blocked by ally units.

I don't know about using the black colour in this situation: I didn't care in the "blitz attack" map, but here with a bigger and more open map it's a bit hard tracking when my ally it's attacking or figthing a group in the middle of the map. 

It's hilarious the message that appear when you are attacking the main base of the Atreides "Harkonnen are destroying our main entrance (or something like that) and I was "yeah, I know; I was there" xD.

With this the maps are officially completed!

Yay!

Spoiler

Yep, that's where they set up their own base. Did you like how I opened the map up some? It gives more opportunities for attack, although the AI is still quite impressive in how quickly they set up. Did you have a hard enough time beating them up?

The briefing implied you were piloting a "prototype Sonic Tank" :P I suppose I could make that more clear, it's only implied.

Right, I'll see what I can do about that.

Hehe, yeah. They usually send more, but hopefully not too much... and the defense area should be around un-buildable areas only, so. Hopefully that's all well and good. I'll see if I can adjust the terrain and stuff.

Maybe I could swap some colors around. Gunseng could use the dark brown Harkonnen color I'm currently using on H6V1. Black and red both look good on Harkonnen forces.

The Atreides on H5V1 are panicked. If you start losing ground on H5B1, Laskos or Atreides infantry will comment about it. On this one, they call for reinforcements when you attack the turret nests and are alarmed when you're inside their base. The flailing of a dying animal is fierce, yet fleeting, in Krillys' own words. Did the Sonic Tanks at the turret nests give you much trouble? And how about the turret nests themselves? How were the Imperials?

Thanks for testing, Cm. I appreciate it!

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Spoiler
1 hour ago, Fey said:

Did you have a hard enough time beating them up?

I build a few units from time to time meanwhile I was building a few more harversters, once the economy was more stable I grouped everything I had at my base an march against them.

The first attack was enough to weak them enough by destroying a good amount of units plus later 4 or 5 harverster. With this AI were busy building remplacements while I was just building more units, so by the time only a few vehicles were left, I retreat into my base to do some reparation and had already a second group to attack; smaller, but enough to harass them even more. With this second group one AI went berseker and I needed a third group just to finish the other.

1 hour ago, Fey said:

The briefing implied you were piloting a "prototype Sonic Tank" :P I suppose I could make that more clear, it's only implied.

Yeah, even if you are piloting a Sonic Tank doesn't necessary means that loosing that unit you will loose. It could be a map "you are driving the only devastator available" and when the devastator died a message pop "don't worry, I could escape in a carryall/I am safe under a rift" or something, so having the unit it's just like "You have this mammoth tank, but you only have one, use it wisely".

A "primary objetive: don't die" or something like that would be more clear.

1 hour ago, Fey said:

Hehe, yeah. They usually send more, but hopefully not too much... and the defense area should be around un-buildable areas only

Just looking into the map, I had my refinery occupying 2 tiles into the area, one being the spot when the harv drop the stuff.

1 hour ago, Fey said:

Black and red both look good on Harkonnen forces.

Any colour look good on harkonnen buildings :P, even blue!

1 hour ago, Fey said:

Did the Sonic Tanks at the turret nests give you much trouble? And how about the turret nests themselves? How were the Imperials?

Sonic tanks did his job, I guess. Any unit can give too much trouble if you are looking away, or if the enemy trooper just stop walking into a only infantry area and etc.

I had the trouble in the first turret nest, to the bottom. 2 turrets plus the sonic tank deal a good amount of damage. The other nest was taken out by a few troopers I send to take the first building and, when I wasn't looking, my ally destroyed more stuff, so when I went there with another group the turrets wasn't shooting due low energy.

Just want to let you know that this map took me near 2 hours!!!

Naaaah, I am joking; I stopped to eat and then I had the game in pause for a long time. Probably the map lasted 40 min or so, maybe a bit more.

Overall (so far) I like the maps.

Edited by Cm_blast

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9 hours ago, Cm_blast said:
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I build a few units from time to time meanwhile I was building a few more harversters, once the economy was more stable I grouped everything I had at my base an march against them.

The first attack was enough to weak them enough by destroying a good amount of units plus later 4 or 5 harverster. With this AI were busy building remplacements while I was just building more units, so by the time only a few vehicles were left, I retreat into my base to do some reparation and had already a second group to attack; smaller, but enough to harass them even more. With this second group one AI went berseker and I needed a third group just to finish the other.

Yeah, even if you are piloting a Sonic Tank doesn't necessary means that loosing that unit you will loose. It could be a map "you are driving the only devastator available" and when the devastator died a message pop "don't worry, I could escape in a carryall/I am safe under a rift" or something, so having the unit it's just like "You have this mammoth tank, but you only have one, use it wisely".

A "primary objetive: don't die" or something like that would be more clear.

Just looking into the map, I had my refinery occupying 2 tiles into the area, one being the spot when the harv drop the stuff.

Any colour look good on harkonnen buildings :P, even blue!

Sonic tanks did his job, I guess. Any unit can give too much trouble if you are looking away, or if the enemy trooper just stop walking into a only infantry area and etc.

I had the trouble in the first turret nest, to the bottom. 2 turrets plus the sonic tank deal a good amount of damage. The other nest was taken out by a few troopers I send to take the first building and, when I wasn't looking, my ally destroyed more stuff, so when I went there with another group the turrets wasn't shooting due low energy.

 

Spoiler

That works out. The Imperials have their Harvesters all stacked up in the base, so they're a little harder to cheese that way.

Right. I'll make it more clear.

Wait, there are blue Harkonnens? I need to look through the color index list again. lol

Yeah. The H5V1 turret nests are really inconvenient if you ignore them, but they have some critical weaknesses. The Wind Traps at each location only barely power the whole thing. Besides getting in to the turret nest to take out the power, the second-biggest challenge is the Sonic Tank guarding each nest. They're a fantastic counter against most units you'll be using and they're placed to fire into whole lines of approaching attackers or through choke points.

 

9 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

Just want to let you know that this map took me near 2 hours!!!

Naaaah, I am joking; I stopped to eat and then I had the game in pause for a long time. Probably the map lasted 40 min or so, maybe a bit more.

Overall (so far) I like the maps.

Hah. :P

I'm glad! I like to hope I'm getting better at this D2k mapping thing. In retrospect, the smuggler campaign was conceptually advanced for my skill level and implementing all those events effectively to get the right gameplay probably would have been easier if I did that campaign after a more straightforward one... like this one. lol

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5 hours ago, Fey said:

Wait, there are blue Harkonnens? I need to look through the color index list again. lol

Nah, I mean that doesn't matter what colour you place on Harkonnen buildings, they look good. You can look at this image from my "special skirmish" map; here I swapped the color editing the colour.bin file (although now there is available a tool to change colours withouth requiring any hex editor).
https://forum.dune2k.com/uploads/monthly_2016_06/574f5329edd23_SpecialSkirmish1.PNG.d903cfe4f94952e64c86f305d54a0969.PNG
(or just playing in practice and using any color on Harkonnen side).

5 hours ago, Fey said:

I'm glad! I like to hope I'm getting better at this D2k mapping thing. In retrospect, the smuggler campaign was conceptually advanced for my skill level and implementing all those events effectively to get the right gameplay probably would have been easier if I did that campaign after a more straightforward one... like this one. lol

I can tell your campaigns are really advanced. I don't know if you played the most early campaigns ever made (the ones in the d2kplus.com, which requires overwritting the original files).

The editor back in them wasn't that easy to use, so doing a new map took lots of works. Also adding and removing events was paintfull as well. The flags didn't update numbers when removing unused events, so the game would mess up pretty easy.

But still, people try to do the best it could; some are pretty simple, but there are interesting concepts and 3 vs 3 or 3 vs 4 battles (rares back then when we only have 2 vs 3 from the original campaign) and playing as Emperor, smuggler, fremen... something even more rare.

Others campaigns were a bit more advance, but nothing like your smuggler-harkonnen one. It's impresive how easy people can create complicated scripts/maps thanks with the current editor.

In case you never played those early campaigns/single maps; I recommend to do it. I like a lot the Ferda's Mercenary (my merc campaign it's a straigh recicled/steal of one of his maps, but with a variation); not only because you play as mercenary, but also was the first campaign I played with some twists.

The missions on the "rise of the mercenary" unfinished campaign have a painfull surprise, and the mulciber map from "MVI" have a only infantry area unreachable until you don't do something first.

Sometimes people had good ideas, but the limitations from the editor were making hard to do something better. I have a mission (in the Butlerian campaign one) where you need to capture a repair pad and use the carryall to transport the MCV by the sky above the enemy base. I took this idea for one of those campaigns.

Or the night mission on the Fremen campaign!!! Those campaigns are simple but worth to play.

Edited by Cm_blast

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43 minutes ago, Cm_blast said:

Nah, I mean that doesn't matter what colour you place on Harkonnen buildings, they look good. You can look at this image from my "special skirmish" map; here I swapped the color editing the colour.bin file (although now there is available a tool to change colours withouth requiring any hex editor).
https://forum.dune2k.com/uploads/monthly_2016_06/574f5329edd23_SpecialSkirmish1.PNG.d903cfe4f94952e64c86f305d54a0969.PNG
(or just playing in practice and using any color on Harkonnen side).

Ooh, pretty! But, you can't change colors for sides beyond 7, right?

43 minutes ago, Cm_blast said:

I can tell your campaigns are really advanced. I don't know if you played the most early campaigns ever made (the ones in the d2kplus.com, which requires overwritting the original files).

The editor back in them wasn't that easy to use, so doing a new map took lots of works. Also adding and removing events was paintfull as well. The flags didn't update numbers when removing unused events, so the game would mess up pretty easy.

But still, people try to do the best it could; some are pretty simple, but there are interesting concepts and 3 vs 3 or 3 vs 4 battles (rares back then when we only have 2 vs 3 from the original campaign) and playing as Emperor, smuggler, fremen... something even more rare.

Others campaigns were a bit more advance, but nothing like your smuggler-harkonnen one. It's impresive how easy people can create complicated scripts/maps thanks with the current editor.

In case you never played those early campaigns/single maps; I recommend to do it. I like a lot the Ferda's Mercenary (my merc campaign it's a straigh recicled/steal of one of his maps, but with a variation); not only because you play as mercenary, but also was the first campaign I played with some twists.

The missions on the "rise of the mercenary" unfinished campaign have a painfull surprise, and the mulciber map from "MVI" have a only infantry area unreachable until you don't do something first.

Sometimes people had good ideas, but the limitations from the editor were making hard to do something better. I have a mission (in the Butlerian campaign one) where you need to capture a repair pad and use the carryall to transport the MCV by the sky above the enemy base. I took this idea for one of those campaigns.

Or the night mission on the Fremen campaign!!! Those campaigns are simple but worth to play.

Oh man, you jogged my memory. The smugglers campaign wasn't actually the first one I did, I was using primitive tools to edit the original campaign missions. No AI editor, the flags weren't up, trying to set my side to 3 crashed the game... I think I have this community to thank for the phenomenal editing tools that made making the smugglers campaign such a pleasure. :)

I did play that one, I think, a long while ago when playing the alternative factions was like *MIND BLOWN.* It is the Rise of the Mercenaries campaign, right?

I love the Repair Pad / Carryall thing. And what's the "night mission"? Did someone change the colors of the tileset or something? :P Actually, that might be really easy to do. I kind of want to try now...

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Well, speaking about colors, I wonder if anyone still has the tiiedata.bin editors. The link here is corrupted. I can see potential possibilities, if we can place any building for any faction, like Harkonnen Windtrap for blue side.

 

1 hour ago, Cm_blast said:

I have a mission (in the Butlerian campaign one) where you need to capture a repair pad and use the carryall to transport the MCV by the sky above the enemy base.

I remember that. That one is brilliant, I intend to use that idea in my mission.

I also remember trying to time it perfectly so my infantries made it to the base without losing any.

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I'm wondering about the tiledata editor, myself.

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On 26/3/2018 at 2:59 PM, Fey said:

Ooh, pretty! But, you can't change colors for sides beyond 7, right?

Not for now. Akafeda asked for implementing custom colours into the .ini file, so the file would have:
<color>
Side 0= something something.
And this make the atreides on the map called "awesome campaign 1.map" to be painted in green but just for this map. For now we don't get this, who knows in the future.

On 26/3/2018 at 2:59 PM, Fey said:

Oh man, you jogged my memory. The smugglers campaign wasn't actually the first one I did, I was using primitive tools to edit the original campaign missions. No AI editor, the flags weren't up, trying to set my side to 3 crashed the game... I think I have this community to thank for the phenomenal editing tools that made making the smugglers campaign such a pleasure. :)

Oh yes, I remember the day the make the sub-house fix (just a modified .dat from the original game) that force the game to check if the player used any index bigger than 2, change it to 2, so you could play as imperials but to the game he thinks you were playing Ordos.

Flags were called "Dummy" (or Dummy something).
To do my mission 5 (I think) from the "a new house" (my first campaign ever made) you don't know all the work I went through to program the first 5 minutes of the map.

Just a bunch or ST. raiders attacking your buildings, and then marching against your engineers just for turning into as neutral before they reach you (but only if you run; if not they still got you) so they went against a soldier placed in another part of the map and then, after 5 minutes of game, those raiders once again become enemy, so they march against you (they were berseker).

Tons of test here calculating times, flags/dummy and stuff just to be sure that work as intended, that the raiders become neutral when I told them to (but later you add/remove somthing and the dummy point to a wrong number and no longer work). I remember noone of my early campaigns have the harverster remplacement (but the Dune 2 based) just because how complicated was to do (and a bit of being lazy).

On 26/3/2018 at 3:51 PM, Runtowin said:

Well, speaking about colors, I wonder if anyone still has the tiiedata.bin editors. The link here is corrupted. I can see potential possibilities, if we can place any building for any faction, like Harkonnen Windtrap for blue side.

You only can change colours by editing colours.bin, but it's not possible to place a Harkonnen windtrap for Atreides (except by using Tibed).
This was something I asked to klofkack (the creator of the editor) and he told me that only the palaces are in a different index:
Atreides Palace = 32; Harkonnen Palace =33; Ordos Palace =34 (made up numbers, just an example)

However, the three version of the windtraps are stored in the same index = 20 (made up number). The game simply just choose the version depending if they are available for one house or another. Same happen with the tanks, because I was thinking on the versions of the combat tanks but that wasn't possible for the same reason.

For example, if I open Tibed, the three windtraps "buildingbehaviour" are "WINDTRAP"; if I check the Atreides Palace instead his "buildingbehaviour" it's "ATREIDES_PALACE". So every palaces are a different index-building, but the windtraps not.

So in short: right now we have all the buildings and units available possible to add manually with the editor. 8 Sietchs (before were only 2), 1 player with the four Palaces at the same time (before only 1 affiliated to that side); the present of the sandworm side... but we can't place an Atreides combat Tank for Ordos (we can still spawn them or make a reinforcement).

In fact, if you place a Sardaukar to the emperor and another to the Harkonnen in a map and make them both fight you'll see how the Imperial are getting the campaign Sardaukar while the Harkonnen get the Multiplayer version (slow ROF).

On 26/3/2018 at 3:51 PM, Runtowin said:

I remember that. That one is brilliant, I intend to use that idea in my mission.

Idea from the "Time based Smuggler" campaign. The autor had 1 heavy factory trapped with junk at the entrance, so anything you build there only could move 3 tiles away.

Then the mission was about capturing an enemy Repair pad, sending a MCV over there and deploy a new CY in a more open area to build a new heavy factory and start using tanks against the enemy.

On 26/3/2018 at 2:59 PM, Fey said:

And what's the "night mission"?

Oh, here it's how looks the night mission:
 

Spice looks weird and the crates from shooting are not changed, but it's a good experiencie overall just playing "at night". Looks a bit mess, but I really enjoy this new fresh just for one map.

Edited by Cm_blast

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Ohh, I see. I'd love to make a new tileset one of these days. I've done spritework before but it's not really my cup of tea.

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5 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

You only can change colours by editing colours.bin, but it's not possible to place a Harkonnen windtrap for Atreides (except by using Tibed).
This was something I asked to klofkack (the creator of the editor) and he told me that only the palaces are in a different index:
Atreides Palace = 32; Harkonnen Palace =33; Ordos Palace =34 (made up numbers, just an example)

However, the three version of the windtraps are stored in the same index = 20 (made up number). The game simply just choose the version depending if they are available for one house or another. Same happen with the tanks, because I was thinking on the versions of the combat tanks but that wasn't possible for the same reason.

I'm not well-versed in this subject, but I has a feeling that there is more to it. In the last post of that thread, klofkack said that he had a version of "tiledata.bin" that allowed you to build all buildings from all sides. Again, that link is dead.

Is there anyone familiar with "tiledata.bin" for us to to ask?

 

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I found the post where I asked for klofkack to add different heavy factories and combat tanks and this is his explanation:

On 12/9/2016 at 1:28 PM, Klofkac said:

No, that's not possible to do, because the game itself does not support it. In TILEDATA.BIN it is possible to specify any building/unit type, but NOT the version of a building/unit - by version I mean the "visual" version of building (atr/hark/ord have own versions of all buildings, there are also merc heavy factory and smugglers starport versions) as well as the different versions of combat tank. In some cases, the "visual" version has also impact on unit types you can build in the building (light factory, heavy factory) - that's exactly what you're talking about.

How it actually works in the game: when you either build a building/unit or pre-place it on a map using map editor, the game calls "MyVersionOfBuilding" and "MyVersionOfUnit" functions, which return the respective building/unit version for the respective side (according to allocation index). In other words, if you are Harkonnen and build a combat tank, you will ALWAYS produce harkonnen combat tank, regardless the heavy factory version you produce the tank in - even if you capture Ordos or Atreides heavy factory. Similar situation is on H7V1 - you capture Atreides construction yard and you still build harkonnen-style buildings, BUT you can build Atreides high tech factory, because it is actually different building TYPE.

I have no idea of the inners of the game, but to me he seems very clear that can't be done.

1 hour ago, Runtowin said:

that allowed you to build all buildings from all sides

I think he means you can build all the palaces, sietchs and both the Atr-high tech for non Atreides as well as the regular High-tech for ATreides (because those are two different buildings). The windtraps are technically only 1 building. Visually changes, but fot the game only exist 1 building with different colors (same as "blue quad" and "red quad" it's just "quad", the color it's just for the player).

Or at least I undertand this with the Klofkack explanation.

Original post in case you are curious to read all:
https://forum.dune2k.com/topic/27429-reviewing-map-and-mission-editor/?do=findComment&comment=393220

 

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5 minutes ago, Cm_blast said:

The truth.

Hope crushing moment. I guess we take what we can get.

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Yeah, that's sad. Hey, we can still spawn in or reinforce special tanks. :P

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8 hours ago, Runtowin said:

Hope crushing moment. I guess we take what we can get.

 

7 hours ago, Fey said:

Yeah, that's sad. Hey, we can still spawn in or reinforce special tanks. :P

At least we can do stuff that I didn't even think of. Changing the tech in mid game, making sides to literally explode for no reason, changing the music or the attack intervals, unit build rate, etc in mid game, making the sandworm to last longer or respawn faster, spawming 5 Fremen from the Atreides Palaces instead 2...

By the way; I finished your second mission: The game was so advanced that I decided to try one last thing before starting from the beggining again:

Spoiler

I started to build units amassing an army (8-9 ligt vehicles, 20-25 infantry) and when I saw the Atreides base more than half destroyed I marched quickly.

Fortunately, all my previous attacks seems to defeat most of the enemy defenses, so I could take the remaining turret/units that block my path by brutal force and reaching the spice area.

From there I keep destroying harverster after harverster; by the time I saw multiple carryalls droping units on the Atreides side that base only had the outpost alive.

I could recommend to add some kind of message when all the harverster are destroyed (or when the Atr receive the reinforcement); I kept destroying harversters and from time to time looking in the Atreides base to see if something happened. A message like "We are getting the upper hand!" or "Keep going like that!" something like that, just to be able to reada confirmation that I am actually destroying all the harverster.

Or at least show the message the first time; this way I'll read it and said "ok, I am in the good track; I'll continue to take out more harversters that appears" withouth needing me to look around the map searching for something to happen.

Ps: I get a bit bored waiting for the Atreides to win (took me around 40 minutes more to finish the map) so I decided to destroy all the imperial buildings, turrets, windtraps... everybody :P.

Ps: The map it's indeed a good idea. 

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Spoiler
2 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

I could recommend to add some kind of message when all the harverster are destroyed (or when the Atr receive the reinforcement); I kept destroying harversters and from time to time looking in the Atreides base to see if something happened. A message like "We are getting the upper hand!" or "Keep going like that!" something like that, just to be able to reada confirmation that I am actually destroying all the harverster.

Will do.

 

2 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

only had the outpost alive.

Intended effect. The Atreides's base should be half-destroyed when you finish the map. It is essentially a timer.

 

2 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

Ps: I get a bit bored waiting for the Atreides to win (took me around 40 minutes more to finish the map) so I decided to destroy all the imperial buildings, turrets, windtraps... everybody :P.

Should be fast. Do you think it's too long?

 

All right, doing something different other than testing the same map over and over again. BTW, I'm still surprised by your campaign count, Cm_blast.

H3V1:

Spoiler

- Enemy attacked in really small wave. I meant 1-3 units at first. There were bigger wave later on, but mostly like that.

- I took out Summers the Great first. I knew she would be trouble, and she actually was.

- They were supposed to surrender, but I was in middle of my rampage, so they turned hostile  again. Destroyed the whole base.

- Then I took out the Atreides base. The entrance was small, and consisted of many guards. Thanks harvester for tanking the way.

- I destroyed Summers' base again after I took out Atreides CY.

- I feel this mission is easier than H2V1. The enemy mostly left me alone building a massive army of light vehicle, infantry, and harvester.

 

H3V2:

Spoiler

- Enemy attack was not too tough, but at least better than H3V1.

- I took out the mercenary's base directly to the north right after the message.

- MCV arrived. I set up a barrack, a refinery, a few windtraps there.

- I used infantry to guard the bridge, hoping to waste their resource.

- I destroyed the small base to the west my starting position. Didn't destroy the left part because I didn't see it.

- Guess what? Ordos charged in with a harvester crushing all my infantry under his its track, while grenadier followed. My top base didn't last long.

- As a revenge, I took out Ordos base without using harvester. They fall really fast.

- The topleft base was little tricky, mostly because of small path. Had to attack multiple time, and drained their resource by constantly destroying harvesters.

- When the topleft base was done, after a bit of scouting, I found the left part of the west bases. Destroying it resulted in a massive amount light infantry appeared. Game crashed right after.

 

H4V1:

Spoiler

- The first time, I went together with Gunseng, For some reason, his infantries attacked me! Guess I broke something.

- I restarted, now went to destroy the east base properly. When my MCV came, Gunseng leisurely controlled his tanks to destroy harvesters. C'mon, take your job seriously.

- Same behaviors as H3V1. While I was building my economy, enemy constantly attacked with 1-3 unit, alternated with a bigger wave, but not tough.

- Later on, Gunseng took most of Atreides attack from me.

- The bottomright base annoyed me based on the fact that harvesters kept respawn despite destroying all buildings nearby.

- I flanked from the bottom, and destroyed the main base shortly after. I daresay this map is easier than H3 & H2.

 

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I posted a big response here instead in the mercenary fall of emperor, my bad.

Edited by Cm_blast

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H5V1:

Spoiler

- I hate how limited building space in this map. I was unable to build Outpost and High Tech Factory.

- Gunseng was kinda a liability midgame. I had to delay my attack to defend his base and his harvesters. At that point, all he build was harvester, harvester and harvester.

- I built 4 turret in his base so I did not need to defend with my own force.

- The constant attack kept me busy. Although I managed to destroy 2 forward bases, at the same time, Gunseng recovered, and spam unit like he had never did.

- Gunseng and I destroyed Atreides together, then took out Imperal base.

 

HBON:

Spoiler

- I managed to defend the Harkonnen's initial attack. When I destroyed Red Harkonnen's MCV, two more appeared. What?

- "Stand your ground" ? Were you serious, First Lieutenant? This mission was hard for you? Demote time!

- The game ended pretty quick, since their bases were in early state.

- Is this supposed to be a defense map? I saw the timer, and the briefing hinted at that. Maybe a leftover from testing.

HBON.thumb.jpg.9653927d5a3bd46728a3677d140bdef4.jpg

- Overall, it was easy, quick map. Same as smuggler's bonus map, I guess.

 

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