Fey

Playing around with the D2k campaign

120 posts in this topic

Hey guys!

I've been playing around with the original Dune 2000 campaign. Modding is a hobby I really enjoy, and I wanted to try my hand at Dune 2000. Being done with, uhh... three levels in the Ordos campaign and four levels in the Atreides and Harkonnen campaigns, I figured it's about time to let folks know what I'm doing and see what they think.

There are two components to my work: Map redesign and slight modding. The core mechanics of the game remain the same, for the most part, though a few subtle changes have been made. Things like:

Spoiler

 - Upgrades are significantly more expensive. The High Tech Factory of every faction must be upgraded to support a Research Center.
 - Structures in general require very slightly more power. Wind Traps are slightly less expensive.
 - Refineries are significantly more expensive. Harvesters are slightly less expensive.
 - Tech tree modified slightly. Certain units are available sooner or later.
 - Grenadier nerfed and made available to all factions at tech level 2.

In terms of map design, I wanted to accomplish things like:

Spoiler

 - Improving map non-linearity. Infantry-only entrances are a little more common, and all-inclusive base entrances are also more common.
 - Expanding the maps. In order to account for increased enemy presence and harder AI, killing fields need to be made larger.
 - Making aesthetically pleasing changes to the terrain. Hopefully the new designs look good!
 - Rethinking enemy base layout, accounting for multiple AI teams.
 - Formatting the player's starting units and structures differently.

If you want to see the maps I've done so far, have a look at this imgur album.
http://imgur.com/a/THuRY

I'll put some details about the maps here.
A1V1:

Spoiler

Starting units: 10 Trikes
Starting base: None.
Enemy AI: 2
Objectives: Raid a Harkonnen base and an MCV will be delivered to you. Finish off the rest of the Harkonnen in the area once a base is established. Harvest 2,500 Solaris.
Unique aspects: Trike and Trooper reinforcements become available once you set up your base. Destroying the Harkonnen outpost prevents any enemy reinforcements from finding the battlefield.
Fey's comments: This mission is functionally exactly the same as H1V1 and O1V1, à la Emperor: Battle for Dune.

A1V2:

Spoiler

Starting units: 7 Light Infantry, 2 Trikes
Starting base: ConYard, Wind Trap (x2), Barracks, Refinery, Silo (x2)
Enemy AI: 2
Objectives: Harvest 2,500 Solaris. Defend your base.
Unique aspects: Limited reinforcements are available over time and if you lose some structures. Destroying the Harkonnen outpost prevents any enemy reinforcements from finding the battlefield.
Fey's comments: This mission is functionally exactly the same as H1V2 and O1V2, à la Emperor: Battle for Dune.

A2V1:

Spoiler

Starting units: 6 Light Infantry, 2 Trikes
Starting base: ConYard, Wind Trap (x2), Light Factory, Heavy Factory
Enemy AI: 2
Objectives: The Harkonnen base to the south must be destroyed. Destroying the Smuggler outpost rewards an MCV.
Unique aspects: A Smuggler outpost is located in this region. Destroying the enemy outposts prevents most enemy reinforcements from finding the battlefield.
Fey's comments: One of the Harkonnen refineries is uncomfortably close to the Atreides base on this mission and I don't really like that. Other than that, the AI does a fine job defending its base and attacking your own. Despite not being available yet, some Harkonnen reinforcements have a single Grenadier to support them, which further encourages the mass production of Trikes over infantry. It's also worth noting that the Harkonnen forces and Smugglers are neutral with each-other, just like you are - if you get them to fight each-other, you might have an easier time.

A2V2:

Spoiler

Starting units: 6 Light Infantry, 2 Trikes
Starting base: ConYard, Wind Trap (x2), Barracks, Heavy Factory
Enemy AI: 2
Objectives: The Harkonnen base to the south must be destroyed. Destroying the Smuggler outpost rewards an MCV.
Unique aspects: A Smuggler outpost is located in this region. Destroying the enemy outposts prevents most enemy reinforcements from finding the battlefield.
Fey's comments: Unlike the other version of this map, you receive infantry reinforcements instead of Trikes, and you start with a barracks instead of a Light Factory. On the plus side, there are less Grenadiers to go up against, enemy defenses are a little more spread out, and there are more avenues into the enemy base. It's also worth noting that the Harkonnen forces and Smugglers are neutral with each-other, just like you are - if you get them to fight each-other, you might have an easier time.

A3V1:

Spoiler

Starting units: 10 Light Infantry, 5 Troopers, 4 Trikes, 2 Quads
Starting base: ConYard, Wind Trap (x2), Refinery
Enemy AI: 4
Objectives: Harvest 5,000 Solaris. Destroying the Smuggler base rewards an MCV.
Unique aspects: A Smuggler base is located in this region. Mercenaries assist the Ordos.
Fey's comments: Level 3 is a skillgate. If you were to fight the Ordos, you'd find the difficulty's quite increased from level 2. It's not necessary to fight them, though. A casualties trigger is in place to make the Ordos and Mercenaries fight each-other if you inflict enough damage, but I haven't seen that happen yet. I'm not even sure if it works, though I copied the format and such from a later Ordos mission, so, in theory, it should. It's also worth noting that the Ordos forces and Smugglers are neutral with each-other, just like you are - if you get them to fight each-other, you might have an easier time. The Ordos may clear the Smugglers out anyway if the Mercenaries decide they want a base up there.

A3V2:

Spoiler

Starting units: 10 Light Infantry, 5 Troopers, 4 Trikes, 2 Quads
Starting base: ConYard, Wind Trap (x2), Refinery
Enemy AI: 4
Objectives: Harvest 5,000 Solaris.
Unique aspects: An MCV is rewarded for crushing one of the Ordos' expansions.
Fey's comments: Since this is a purely green map on the mission selection screen, there are no extra factions present here, although the number of enemy AIs is the same. Once again, fighting the Ordos isn't necessary, but if you decide to, the AI is significantly tougher than it was on level 2.

A4V1:

Spoiler

Starting units: 10 Light Infantry, 5 Troopers, 4 Trikes, 2 Quads, 4 Combat Tanks, 1 MCV
Starting base: ConYard, Wind Trap (x2), Outpost, Heavy Factory
Enemy AI: 4
Objectives: Break the Harkonnen blockade. Prevent the Fremen Sietch from being destroyed.
Unique aspects: None.
Fey's comments: You start with an MCV in this level, making it much easier to set up your base faster or expand quickly. MCVs are not available until level 5 with the modifications I've made, so this remains quite helpful. The AI will also avoid training Grenadiers on this level because you'll probably be massing tanks. Due to the neutrality of most of the Harkonnen AIs, the Fremen aren't in terrible danger unless they wander into each-others' territory. The Fremen are neutral to you, too, despite your allegiance to them, so try not to tick them off.

H1V1:

Spoiler

Starting units: 10 Trikes
Starting base: None.
Enemy AI: 2
Objectives: Raid an Atreides base and an MCV will be delivered to you. Finish off the rest of the Atreides in the area once a base is established. Harvest 2,500 Solaris.
Unique aspects: Trike and Trooper reinforcements become available once you set up your base. Destroying the Atreides outpost prevents any enemy reinforcements from finding the battlefield.
Fey's comments: This mission is functionally exactly the same as A1V1 and O1V1, à la Emperor: Battle for Dune.

H1V2:

Spoiler

Starting units: 7 Light Infantry, 2 Trikes
Starting base: ConYard, Wind Trap (x2), Barracks, Refinery, Silo (x2)
Enemy AI: 2
Objectives: Harvest 2,500 Solaris. Defend your base.
Unique aspects: Limited reinforcements are available over time and if you lose some structures. Destroying the Atreides outpost prevents any enemy reinforcements from finding the battlefield.
Fey's comments: This mission is functionally exactly the same as A1V2 and O1V2, à la Emperor: Battle for Dune.

H2V1:

Spoiler

Starting units: 10 Light Infantry, 5 Troopers, 6 Trikes
Starting base: ConYard, Wind Trap (x2), Refinery, Silo (x2), Heavy Factory
Enemy AI: 3
Objectives: The Atreides bases must be destroyed.
Unique aspects: Crushing enemy bases yields reinforcements.
Fey's comments: Despite having another AI trying to kill you, the Harkonnen version of level 2 is fair when compared to the Atreides version because in the Atreides versions, the Harkonnen bases were pretty condensed for the most part. In the Harkonnen versions, the Atreides have one noteworthy production expansion, one refinery expansion with a starport nearby, and a main base. You'll also receive reinforcements for taking out enemy bases, so that helps you keep momentum and roll over the Atreides.

H2V2:

Spoiler

Starting units: 10 Light Infantry, 5 Troopers, 6 Trikes
Starting base: ConYard, Wind Trap (x2), Refinery, Silo (x2), Heavy Factory
Enemy AI: 3
Objectives: The Atreides bases must be destroyed.
Unique aspects: Crushing enemy bases yields reinforcements.
Fey's comments: Pretty much the same as the other version, only with a different layout.

H3V1:

Spoiler

Starting units: 10 Light Infantry, 5 Troopers, 4 Trikes, 2 Quads
Starting base: ConYard, Wind Trap (x2), Barracks, Light Factory, Outpost
Enemy AI: 3
Objectives: The Atreides base must be destroyed.
Unique aspects: Infinite Harkonnen reinforcements arrive, provided you maintain your outpost's integrity.
Fey's comments: Harkonnen mission 3 is probably the hardest of all the mission 3s. In fact, it's currently overtuned, and needs some adjustment. The enemy's position is extremely defensible. Although you begin with capable production, getting your economy up and running is quite difficult, especially as opposed to the last mission. To make matters worse, the enemy AI is very fond of grenadiers, and will be sending quite a few your way. The infinite reinforcements you'll receive will help out over time, but it's not very much at the beginning - it'll refund your starting units after a whopping 54,000 tics. At least you'll receive more substantial reinforcements for destroying parts of the enemy's base!

H3V2:

Spoiler

Starting units: 10 Light Infantry, 5 Troopers, 4 Trikes, 2 Quads
Starting base: ConYard, Wind Trap (x2), Barracks, Light Factory, Outpost
Enemy AI: 3
Objectives: The Atreides base must be destroyed.
Unique aspects: A Smuggler base is located in this region. Infinite Harkonnen reinforcements arrive, provided you maintain your outpost's integrity.
Fey's comments: Less of a pain than the other version of mission 3. The enemy base is a little bit more accessible, and one of the AIs is sitting out on the edge with a small expansion. They still send loads of Grenadiers at you, but they're a little bit easier to deal with when you don't have to poke into a turret-lined choke point to get them out of their base. You'll also receive your MCV by leveling the Smuggler base, as opposed to the uselessness of the other version's MCV delivery. It's also worth noting that the Atreides forces and Smugglers are neutral with each-other, just like you are - if you get them to fight each-other, you might have an easier time.

H4V1:

Spoiler

Starting units: 10 Light Infantry, 5 Troopers, 4 Trikes, 2 Quads, 4 Combat Tanks
Starting base: ConYard, Wind Trap (x2), Refinery, Heavy Factory
Enemy AI: 6
Objectives: All enemy forces must be destroyed.
Unique aspects: An MCV will be delivered for one of the Atreides bases (and nearby Fremen camp) you completely destroy.
Fey's comments: Two of those enemy AIs are Fremen, so you'll be up against pretty much the same thing the Atreides were up against in terms of enemy AIs. Have fun rolling over those Fremen, but remember - the AI won't bother with Grenadiers on this mission. You have Combat Tanks, and they'll send Troopers.

O1V1:

Spoiler

Starting units: 10 Raiders
Starting base: None.
Enemy AI: 2
Objectives: Raid a Harkonnen base and an MCV will be delivered to you. Finish off the rest of the Harkonnen in the area once a base is established. Harvest 2,500 Solaris.
Unique aspects: Raider and Trooper reinforcements become available once you set up your base. Destroying the Harkonnen outpost prevents any enemy reinforcements from finding the battlefield.
Fey's comments: This mission is functionally exactly the same as A1V1 and H1V1, à la Emperor: Battle for Dune.

O1V2:

Spoiler

Starting units: 7 Light Infantry, 2 Raiders
Starting base: ConYard, Wind Trap (x2), Barracks, Refinery, Silo (x2)
Enemy AI: 2
Objectives: Harvest 2,500 Solaris. Defend your base.
Unique aspects: Limited reinforcements are available over time and if you lose some structures. Destroying the Harkonnen outpost prevents any enemy reinforcements from finding the battlefield.
Fey's comments: This mission is functionally exactly the same as A1V2 and H1V2, à la Emperor: Battle for Dune.

O2V1:

Spoiler

Starting units: 10 Light Infantry, 4 Raiders, 1 MCV
Starting base: ConYard, Wind Trap (x2), Outpost, Heavy Factory
Enemy AI: 3
Objectives: Destroy all Harkonnen forces.
Unique aspects: None.
Fey's comments: Your base is in the middle of the map and you're up against three enemy AIs. At least they only have small bases. As long as you defend your own, you'll be able to retaliate just fine.

O2V2:

Spoiler

Starting units: 10 Light Infantry, 4 Raiders, 1 MCV
Starting base: ConYard, Wind Trap (x2), Outpost, Heavy Factory
Enemy AI: 2
Objectives: Destroy all Harkonnen forces.
Unique aspects: A Smuggler base is located in this region.
Fey's comments: The two enemies you'll be up against here have full bases of their own. The first one to go down will probably berserk early and the other will retaliate in force when that happens. You're not in the middle of the map, though you could expand there if you want, so your position is a little easier to defend.

O3V1:

Spoiler

Starting units: 10 Light Infantry, 5 Troopers, 4 Raiders, 2 Quads, 1 MCV
Starting base: ConYard, Wind Trap (x2), Light Factory, Repair Pad
Enemy AI: 6
Objectives: Destroy all Harkonnen forces.
Unique aspects: There is an Atreides base in this region.
Fey's comments: The world map may look like you're striking the corner of the world, deep in Harkonnen territory, but the world has no corners. On the opposite side of the world map is Atreides, so you'll be seeing Atreides attacking this region. The Atreides and Harkonnen will fight each-other and ignore you for a while, which is great because you'll be fighting superior forces - Combat Tanks, Siege Tanks, and Missile Tanks arrive via their starports. If you decide to pick a fight, expect to have a serious fight on your hands. If you don't bother them, they won't really notice you unless you go poking around inside or very close to their bases, or until the battle has been going on for a while. If you're careful, you can weaken the Harkonnen forces and give the Atreides an easier time without attracting their attention, and they can clear out the Harkonnen for you, but the Harkonnen may retaliate against you in the meantime. You only need to destroy the Harkonnen, so go about that however you like.

O3V2:

Spoiler

Starting units: 10 Light Infantry, 5 Troopers, 4 Raiders, 2 Quads, 1 MCV
Starting base: ConYard, Wind Trap (x2), Light Factory, Repair Pad
Enemy AI: 4
Objectives: Destroy all Harkonnen forces.
Unique aspects: A Smuggler base is located in this region.
Fey's comments: This version of the map is just a 1v1, if you don't like bothering with the Atreides and Harkonnen at once. Most of the Harkonnen production is located in the middle of the map, but a smaller segment of rock to the north, connected with a bridge, holds Harkonnen economy structures, as well as a starport.


It's been fairly slow progress, and since I need to re-tune these missions due to some mod changes, it'll be even slower, but I'm making progress, so... lemme know what y'all think, if y'don't mind. Do the maps look good, or bad? Why? Are there any unique circumstances in any of the missions that sound annoying or pointless or something? Which unique circumstances are really cool, that I should have more of? I listen to all suggestions and use the feedback to improve the maps. Maybe in a little while, I'll release the first three or four missions.

Thanks for reading.

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Well I quite like the way missions were presented. I'm happy that you're taking advantage of the neutral status, especially in the third Ordos mission. About the design, the maps look pretty good. A few walls are a bit weirdly placed, but generally it looks good. For example, the map with the isolated Atreides starport in the middle looks very well in my opinion. One question I have: are you going to add allies? Because the only original missions where you had allies were O7,8,9 and H8V1 providing you captured the merc factory (i'm not counting A4V1 because the fremen didn't do jack shit there). Are you trying to stick with the original missions system or going to add allies in other missions too? I'm asking this because I can tell you the most beloved features in custom missions created by the community has been having allies that acutally fight alongside you. It is something that only Dune 2000 missions really emphasized, from all C&C games (and even Starcraft doesn't do this). I'm sure everyone loves the mercenaries because everyone remembers fighting alongside them in those final Ordos missions (and they were quite helpful, if not as a strong ally, then at least as a good distraction for the enemies).

 

One thing I noticed: you mentioned the world conquest map and stuff like that. Are you using the latest mission creation tools and the latest system that we use to play custom missions? Because we no longer use the "replace original missions then play them from the campaign screen" method from back in the days, we now have a patched Dune 2000 that supports custom missions being started from a Mission Launcher external program (an .exe program that can detect all missions - custom or vanilla - from the missions folder and can launch them directly, without the need to replace any file). Also for the briefing and in-game messages, we use .ini files, they will be read by the Mission launcher for the briefing and by the game for in-game custom messages. All these things allow us to add new stuff without replacing anything at all and keeping the game compatible with online play too (although in your case online play does not matter since you added modded units, and also I never recommend playing custom missions and online from the same Dune folder). I also noticed that there is no concrete under the buildings in the editor screenshots: you either disabled it from the mission editor or you do not have the latest mission editor. I recommend getting the latest versions of all these tools if you don't already have them, here is the link for it: https://d2kplus.com/map-and-mission-editor/

 

Another question, by "harder AI" do you mean that you modified the AI segments (like production speed etc) or that you just added more of them? 

 

Overall, good job, I'm looking forward to these missions and if you need a tester, feel free to send them to me. I can give better feedback after playing them. I might even record them for YouTube if you want, once they are released, since I haven't posted videos in ages :D.

 

EDIT: Oh, another suggestion. If you could integrate some sort of a story inside, it would be pretty awesome. Good campaigns always need a good story, it might not seem that important but it is, at least for me :D I'm more determined to play the missions when there's a good story, since I want to find out what's going to happen next. The original Dune 2000 story was, simply put, kinda in-existent. If you want to stick with the vanilla style then it's fine, but if you planned the campaign to be original (I'm assuming yes since modded units) then I recommend thinking about a story, although it is up to you.

Edited by FedaYkin
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Hey.

First of all, I really appreciate that you took the time to reply to me like that. You know so much about this game and editing it, and although I call modding a 'hobby,' it's something I'm passionate about. So, thanks for your reply!

I'm very fond of your work on YouTube, and I have a channel, myself, where I uploaded a couple of the original versions of these missions. I've since redone them (what you see here), since the AI was overtuned, yet the mod I was using was ironically more hazardous to the AI's difficulty than I realized, and you were stuck fighting in super cramped maps. Here are those (outdated) videos:

As you can see, it's not exactly polished. I didn't really play with the terrain, I just added enemy forces and stuff. My new policy is:

Spoiler

 - Don't give the player too much to start with.
 - - They should be allowed to build their own base, not given one.
 - - Too many units, and they can gather them all up and rush one of the enemy bases.
 - - But they shouldn't start with nothing. A few things just to get started, and to help deal with a harder AI.
 - Design the units around the terrain, not the terrain around the units.
 - - Focus on natural-looking terrain, then find space for structures.
 - - If need be, expand terrain in a good-looking way, then return to doing enemy units.
 - - Improve unit pathing by providing lots of space to move in and out between cliffs, and create 'killing fields' where solely the fighting can be focused on.
 - Create exploitable and unique weaknesses for the AI to reward the player for alternative strategies.
 - - Pit other factions against each-other if possible.
 - - Place a few crucial enemy structures outside the main base, or near an infantry-only entrance.
 - - Encourage the player to be aggressive or defensive, such as rewarding them for destroying enemy structures, or giving the enemy reinforcements to prevent the player from moving out too early.

That said, lemme start actually replying to what you're saying...

I'm glad the maps, for the most part, look good. What did you mean about the wall placement? In the player's base, or the enemy's? In the player's base, the walls may be far out from the main structures just for the purpose of building across the terrain faster, though I really should cut it down some. In enemy bases, I try to cover entrances or create artificial loose choke points with walls.

On the subject of allies, I really like 'em too. The Ordos actually originally had Mercenary allies in the first drafts of O2V1 and O3V1, but I figured it was a little early for that. They got the money for it later on in the playable campaign. The Ordos do have Mercenary allies in A3V1, but they're your enemy in that case. I'm trying to think of ways to incorporate allies for the player, and I have some ideas... but I'll get to that in a few.

I believed I had the latest versions, but, apparently, I don't. I have indeed been overwriting the original campaign maps, and keeping spare copies of everything just in case. Those screenies weren't from the editor, but the renderer, which had the option to export as PNG. I would absolutely love to make use of the new tools, and although this project was intended to be an enhancement for the original campaign, I realize that being able to customize in-game messages and other things would greatly improve the potential for a stronger narrative. So, you know, I'd be able to expand on the Dune 2000 story. Which, I agree, is extremely important and a good idea. How would I go about using this new method of design?

As for the modded units, I changed up the tech tree and stuff just to provide more options for AI design. Troopers are available with Trikes and Light Infantry, and Grenadiers are available with Quads, providing actual counters for enemy units at tech levels 1 and 2.

And as for the AI, I actually have just been playing around with existing AI. Last I read, y'all didn't know anything about editing Dune 2k AI segments, but were able to export segments of existing AI from the missions to use. I guess that's outdated now. I would be quite excited to try and edit the AI, myself. As it is, currently, the enemy has consisted of multiple AIs working together, and they're usually of varying strength. Like, on A2V1 or A2V2, the Emperor has great production, but no ConYard, so they have a more productive AI. The regular Harkonnen team has a less productive AI.

I would be happy to send you what I have so far, but due to recent changes in the mod, the levels tend to be overtuned. That should be no problem for an expert, though, right? Where should I link you a zip file with the missions? I'll also include a link to the mod, which you'll need to implement via TibEd... unless there are some files TibEd edits that I can send instead, or something.

Thanks again for your reply. I look forward to your response.

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Like Feda Said, I Highly recommend the new tools. They are amazing. You can place a reinforcement (indicated on the map with a "R") and then moving it by just click and drag. Also the keys on your keyboard allow to quickly select group of tiles "1" for topleft corner, "2 to 4" to top rifts, "5" for topright corner, etc... Makes the creationg of maps really easy =). Also everything Feda said ".ini" files, and etc, so right now I can have my 10 custom campaings/mission available at once withouth worrying about back ups (except for the ones which modified values to the game, like yours, but that's the back up of 1/couples of files, not the 9-X maps you are about to done).

By looking to your videos in general looks good.

You can download this new mission editor from here.
https://forum.dune2k.com/topic/27226-release-dune-2000-map-and-mission-editor-v12/

You can create the map, create the events, change values to the AI and a tons of things... all in one single tool. Also a option to quick test the map playing as any player.

Here there are the post I made with a good amount of AI properties done by me.
https://forum.dune2k.com/topic/27429-reviewing-map-and-mission-editor/?do=findComment&comment=393236
If you see "IA" it's mean to be "AI"; I am spanish so I write "IA" a lot of times there. The same with "VCM/MCV" and other typos. anyway I think this information would help you on your way to editing the AI.

 

Edited by Cm_blast
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Thanks a ton, CM. I'm already looking over the tool; this looks like an incredible upgrade.

If you'd like to test as well, I'd be happy to send you what I've got done so far. The above maps are all draft 2, but draft 1 I've got up to A7V1, H7V1, and O6V1 & 2 done. I'm not sure I'd be willing to share those publicly, just because they're super, uhh... unpolished.

If you have any more information about AI segment editing, I'd be happy to hear it. I've only ever edited the maps and mission events / conditions before.

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Here are some tutorials I made for the new tools, there are a few more in the playlist, check them out (including AI editing) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KLzy1wDPeU&list=PLEE243ED0667FE5E9&index=25

 

You can put the missions in a zip file and send them to me through the forum private message.

With the walls I meant that in some missions there is like one wall not connected to anything (like the single wall in A2V1 near the Harkonnen Heavy Factory), but it's really no big deal, maybe just my preferences, as I usually like walls to be nicely connected, usually in straight squares and lines.

Btw, Ordos mission 6 was supposed to have smugglers as allies of Ordos, originally, however it didn't happen for some reason. You might use this as a way to give the player some allies in the Ordos missions that were not present in the vanilla missions :D

 

I'll test them if you send them to me and will give you more feedback once I'm done.

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I'm actually on my fourth video of your's, looking at the new mission / map editor. I just finished the introduction to AI editing. They're extremely helpful, so thank you.

Oh, I see. Some of Westwood's building placement bugged me, too; I've been making the AI bases nice and neat. Not too much clutter, clusters of wind traps, buildings in nice places, usually an Outpost, Refinery, or Repair Pad on the outskirts of the base, if not in an expansion base...

That particular wall you're talking about, I know that wall, and it's there to help choke the valley into the back of the Harkonnen base. There's a complete wall on the opposite side of the valley, above the Refinery east of the Harkonnen base. That single wall segment is supposed to be part of the two tiles of wall on the opposite side of the Heavy Factory.

Some of my walls are neat and look really good, I'm happy with them, and others, like that wall, I wish I could make a little more... pretty. Still thinking of ideas. Maybe I could add a tile of Infantry Rock where the Heavy Factory is placed, since they don't overwrite each-other, and add another piece of wall on the other side.

Really? You know, that makes sense, what with them smuggling in illegal technologies. Given that this mission editor allows you to customize briefing and in-game messages, I'm inspired to take full advantage of this and redo the campaign with some adjustments that allow for more liberal use of this or that.

The multiplayer-only units are available during the campaign, so since the Harkonnen will have Sardaukar, I could say some of them defected...

Anyway, I'll pack some missions up and send 'em to you, along with a copy of the TibEd mod. Just a moment, please.

Edit: Zip sent, Feda. There should be the TibEd file in there and all of the maps listed above. Just to emphasize this, I'll reiterate: I've been playing with balance and, right now, the maps are overtuned, harder than they're supposed to be. Or, at least, that's the state I expect it to be in after the changes. I like including a difficulty curve if I do a campaign, so it builds up to something, and right now it's not quite right.

Please feel free to familiarize yourself with the mod. I would be quite grateful for an opinion on the changes made and how they feel, but consider that unnecessary. There are a few interesting changes, and I tried to balance each Tech Level, but, again, it's a work in progress.

Edit 2: Just for the sake of familiarity, here are some specific changes that you'll definitely run into in the first four levels:

Spoiler

 - Light Infantry / Barracks can be trained / built on level 1, at Tech Level 0.
 - Troopers can be trained at Tech Level 1, on level 2, to counter the introduction of Trikes.
 - Grenadiers can be trained at Tech Level 2, on level 3, to counter infantry massing, Trike shortage due to the introduction of Quads, and to support light vehicles or infantry squads. They're pretty good support for light vehicles, as it turns out, but they tend to get infantry killed if you throw in a mass of Grenadiers with other infantry, or themselves.
 - All infantry can patch themselves up to 50% HP. They're still delicate and can be killed easily, but there are more strategic uses for them.
 - Repair pads are available as early as level 2, provided you're able to afford the pricey Heavy Factory upgrade.
 - Combat tanks have had their firing rate spread a little bit more between all the factions. Harkonnen tanks fire slightly slower, Atreides tanks' firing rate remains unchanged, and Ordos tanks fire quite fast. This results in a change in damage, and supports the playstyles of each House.
 - This isn't part of the mod, it's about the levels themselves, but it's worth mentioning for testing purposes: Each and every level contains an MCV for the player. Like, the Atreides can destroy the Smuggler outpost on level 2 and receive an MCV for it, or the Harkonnen can conquer Atreides land in their version of level 2.

Thanks for giving it a look! If you do record a video, I'd love to check 'em out. It would surely help me to balance the map's design around the intuition of players... but, again, consider that unnecessary.

Edit 3: Don't wanna double post, so this reply is getting another edit. I've been playing around with the new editor and I've got some questions...

1. There appears to be a bug with the "Set Cash" thing. It was on a reoccurring timer (500 tics, repeating) and caused a crash 1500 tics into the game. Something about... real -1? Something 0? Not sure, don't remember, but hopefully that sounds familiar.

2. Played around with some AI ratios. Made them build lots of troopers, quads, trikes... and put no delay between training stuff. Like, 1 tic. They stopped sending attacks my way. How can I control the amount of stuff they'll include in an attack / defense group? Did that have to do with the ratios I played around with at all? I plan on referencing Feda's vid on AI functions later, when I have time to look at it.

3. I got the "Invalid Filename" error when trying to quick start. I redid the path in the INI, and it seems correct, no typos or anything, but it just ain't working.

4. I noticed that the mission launcher has links to all the community-made campaigns, like the Fremen campaign, the War of Assassins, other stuff... how do I start my own missions up to make sure the briefing and stuff all works? Can I implement them into the launcher or something?

If anyone knows the answers, or has any ideas, I'd be most appreciative if they would convey them to me. Thank you.

Edited by Fey
Asking questions.
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1. That should work assuming it doesn't fire in an infinite loop, but you said there's a delay of 500 ticks, so it should work fine. Maybe try increasing the delay, I've never encountered that issue before.

 

2. If you only changed UnitBuildRate and the UnitBuildPriority values, it should not affect the attacks. Make sure the FirstAttack interval or whatever it is named has a proper value, and also that TimeBetweenAttacks has a good value as well. Try setting both to 4000, they should send pretty regular attacks, if they have enough units. I think they only send units to attack if the GuardGroupSize is fine with it (meaning if they have the units specified there to defend the base with), but I'm not sure about this. Also the Morale has some influences on attacks, according to cm_blast a morale of 1 means he will almost never attack. So the greater, the more frequent he should attack.

 

3. try to add a "/" without the quotes after the filename. If i remember correctly, that was the issue, I think I had it too

 

4. the launcher will detect any missions placed in the missions folder and will display them in the all missions"section, under the corresponding house. If you want to have a custom entry like War of Assassins, Rise of the Mercenaries etc. then you might need to talk to FunkyFr3sh, the creator of the launcher. Or, if i get my hands on the source code and if it is C#, i might be able to do it myself (i'm learning WPF at work right now for a project that i will be allocated to, and i have a feeling the launcher was made in either wpf or winforms or something).

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1. If I encounter it again, I'll report the full error message.

2. Ah. I set them to have no defenders whatsoever for testing purposes, at least during my last test. Maybe that had something to do with it...

3. That fixed it. Thanks! I'm running into some other issues, though - the game path was set to data, so I changed it to the main D2k folder, but it derps out. When I leave the path alone and let it look in data, the game quick launches just fine, but, you know, it's in low res. Is there anything I can do about that?

4. Oh, I see it now. That's wonderful. I see that there's a scrollbar, too, so we can write as much as we want, eh? Another one of my hobbies is writing... might make for a more interesting project.

Thanks a ton for the help, Feda. Hey, did you get the chance to check out any of them there missions?

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3. Do you use the patched Dune 2000 from funkyfr3sh? That one has a Dune 2000 config .exe that can set the resolution you want. I mean, you should not have any issues with the res. I don't really know why it is happening.

4. Yep, briefing supports huge amounts of text, just look at War of Assassins Sandstorm Expansion Mission 4 for example (for any house, same briefing), it's huge and I could still write more, the program would let me. Do be careful with the in-game messages tho, they might be custom, but they still have to be one row, otherwise they won't show up entirely.

 

Yes, I played the Atreides missions. In A1V1 the win event does not fire at all. I made sure i killed all harkonnen stuff + had more than 2500 credits. I didn't check the mission file in the editor to see what the issue is. Except for this, all missions worked fine. Indeed, they are quite difficult for the first levels. I would suggest to add more spice, or closer to the player base in the missions where carryals are not available, since if u dont win quickly you will run out of spice very soon and will pretty much die. So far good job anyway.

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3. I'm using the Gruntmods Edition with a decent window to look at the mission from. It resets to 640x480 or whatever Dune 2k is normally set to whenever I quick launch from the editor :(

I can deal with it, I was just wondering is all.

4. Good to know about the in-game messages. I actually already checked out some of the Sandstorm missions! Or, at least, their briefings. >.> I only played through a couple of levels in the Fremen campaign, the miniature Mercenary campaign, and I think an Emperor mission so far. There's a lot to look at.

Good to know about in-game messages. Do people usually play campaigns with... 640x480? I play at, like, 1024x768. I mean, I guess I could try and tune messages for the smallest resolutions, it would ensure maximum compatibility... eh, I'll figure it out later.

Huh? The win event in A1V1 doesn't work? That's preposterous, I tested it myself and it worked just fine! :( I'll give it a look, see what I can do about fixing it.

Thanks for the feedback. I've been working on spice balance, actually; I try to put temporary fields in the open and replenishing fields against cliffs or in corners, just so the spice blooms don't murder everyone. There are exceptions where spice fields in the middle of a killing field have blooms, just for higher intensity, but that's done on purpose. As for distance to the player's base, I think a good example of that sort of that balance is H3V1... there's a single spice field very close to the player's base, and then there are more spice fields spread around, demanding the eventual production of harvesters. But, to start, there should be enough to get some production going. Not enough, though, it needs a buff... you get the idea.

I've been drawing up some new briefings. The missions in the Atreides, Ordos, and Harkonnen campaigns will definitely be based on the original campaign, but I'll try and expand on stuff. Like, here's the new briefing for A1V1:

Spoiler

ATREIDES 01: The Atreides Gain

     On a balcony overlooking the first Atreides base on Arrakis, you reflect on the journey here. The troops below look disciplined and toil diligently and loyally to organize and move out, as you requested. Despite their genuine enthusiasm, you cannot help but wonder if these proud, honorable men can hope to stand against the ruthlessness of the Harkonnen. No doubt, now that you've made your choice, you'll face enemies who take pleasure in battle, and will murder those men without a moment's hesitation.

     The sound of weighted footsteps blew along the ramparts with the howling wind, and you turn to face a regally-decorated man approaching you. Despite his relatively small stature, his grayed, but thick hair offered an impression of wisdom. As suddenly as you turned, he greeted you with an amiable, but formal expression and extended his hand to you. You shake it firmly.

     "Welcome, Commander," he says, glancing down at your hand, and then looking you in the eyes. "I see you've already familiarized yourself with the men. That's very good. I am Noree Moneo, Mentat to the Duke." He turns to look over the balcony. You do the same. After a pause filled with contemplation, he continues with remorse disguised by his dutiful tone: "Are you wondering about the conscripts? Surely you've been briefed on the dangers already; this bloody sand pit eats careless men alive. It's crawling with Harkonnen, who'd rather drink our blood than their mother's milk. Filled with sand worms the length of a hundred men. They'd be clinging to the safty of rocks like children."

     The tragedy of war clouds your mind with doubts.

     You look in his direction with a disheartened gaze. Noree meets it with puzzling confidence. "Let me remind you we are here to fight for the Duke. For the Duke, we will mine Spice in the Imperial Basin, and for the Duke, we will rid this land of Harkonnen." With a hand placed on your shoulder, his faith in the Atreides is felt through the strength of his grip. "Keep that in mind, and you'll be a Dune man, yet." He lets go and faces forward again.

     You continue to look at him expectantly, and as a flurry of whirring Trikes rides off into the distance over the sands below, Noree explains, at last. "The Harkonnen have already made their presence known. Our scouts report they've air-lifted a construction crew into the Imperial Basin. You will demolish the base there and establish your own. We need that Spice, Commander. Make the Duke proud."

     You're left alone on the balcony to watch the Trikes disappear over the dunes.

     Loyalty. Therein lied the secret to the Atreides, the truth that hadn't quite set in until just now. Now that you've been given your task, it's time to give the men something to die for.

OBJECTIVES:
1. Drive the Harkonnen out of the region.
2. Establish an Atreides base.
3. Mine 2,500 Solaris.

Good luck.

Given that there won't be cinematics to go on, I'd like to tell a bit of story in the briefing. You know, text screen-style, like in Doom, for instance. Give some character to the faction you're playing, give context in an engaging sort of way, and give the story a bit more depth.

I've also been wanting to play around with some lore, too, but I see someone has already done a defense of Shield Wall and Arrakeen map. :P

Edit: Hey, I've been playing around with the AI editing. I'm trying to make the AI attack in very tiny groups (for testing purposes at this juncture), and I looked over your AI functions tutorial, but they just keep spamming Light Infantry (that's the only infantry they're set to build) and never really seem to attack. At all. Any ideas about why this might be happening? Or, am I just not looking at the right functions?

If it helps to mention, I set their buildrate to 1 and I've tried setting their AttackBuildingStrength, ProtectStrength, and DefendStrength to 5, 4, 3, 50, 40, 30, and 500, 400, 300, respectively. None of it seems to work.

Edited by Fey
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I play in 640x480 :P.

The maximum possible to a message is this long.
message.PNG

 

4 hours ago, Fey said:

Edit: Hey, I've been playing around with the AI editing. I'm trying to make the AI attack in very tiny groups (for testing purposes at this juncture), and I looked over your AI functions tutorial, but they just keep spamming Light Infantry (that's the only infantry they're set to build) and never really seem to attack. At all. Any ideas about why this might be happening? Or, am I just not looking at the right functions?

Check "First attack building delay". This is the number that set when the enemy attack for the first time.
Is not an absolute value. "5 min" the AI can attack at 4 or a 6;

Also "Time between buildings attacks" determine the time between one attack and another. I think this really works as a absolute value (3 mins are 3 mins, if the AI have enough units).

 

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Thanks for showing me the maximum length. I'll write that down.

The attack delay was played around with a bit. I set it to 22,000 and waited a while, I set it to 9000, I set it to 1, etc etc. The enemy keeps building units until it's ready to attack; I'm not sure how to make the AI feel ready. Like, I've tried setting the morale super duper high, first 100, then 1000, doesn't seem to do anything.

If you have a functioning example I could look at, I'd really appreciate it if you'd point me to it.

Edit: Hey, sorry for all the questions, I know I ask a lot of them, but I have another one.

Is it possible to allow the Mercenaries to build Missile Tanks, but not the Ordos or Smugglers? When I try to allow the Mercenaries to build Missile Tanks, the Mercenaries count as an Ordos faction, apparently, despite the Mercenaries using a unique Heavy Factory, so it allows the Ordos and Smugglers to be able to build them with normal Ordos factories. Has someone figured this out already, by any chance?

I'm gonna look around some more and keep playing around with it anyway, but if there's already an answer...

Edit 2: Never mind, I figured it out!

Hehe. I thought I already checked what I needed to, but apparently I missed a spot. Pardon me. :)

Edited by Fey
Missile Tank question. (Resolved!)
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1 hour ago, Fey said:

Thanks for showing me the maximum length. I'll write that down.

The attack delay was played around with a bit. I set it to 22,000 and waited a while, I set it to 9000, I set it to 1, etc etc. The enemy keeps building units until it's ready to attack; I'm not sure how to make the AI feel ready. Like, I've tried setting the morale super duper high, first 100, then 1000, doesn't seem to do anything.

If you have a functioning example I could look at, I'd really appreciate it if you'd point me to it.

Edit: Hey, sorry for all the questions, I know I ask a lot of them, but I have another one.

Is it possible to allow the Mercenaries to build Missile Tanks, but not the Ordos or Smugglers? When I try to allow the Mercenaries to build Missile Tanks, the Mercenaries count as an Ordos faction, apparently, despite the Mercenaries using a unique Heavy Factory, so it allows the Ordos and Smugglers to be able to build them with normal Ordos factories. Has someone figured this out already, by any chance?

I'm gonna look around some more and keep playing around with it anyway, but if there's already an answer...

Edit 2: Never mind, I figured it out!

Hehe. I thought I already checked what I needed to, but apparently I missed a spot. Pardon me. :)

22000 = almost 15 minutes (real time)
but keep something in mind.
1 = less than 1 second. But this happens
timer = 1 second (less than 1) the AI said "time to attack... wait, not enough forces, will wait"
Here is where you need to look at the "time between attacks". If that is set to a high number then that's the reason why he don't attack.

My recomenation, if you really wants to try the AI attacking set this way.
First attack building delay = 500 (This is 20 seconds in real time, 10 at max speed)
Time bewteen attacks = 500 (so every 20 seconds the AI try a new attack)
morale attack building = 100 (original maps use 50,80 and 100, so I think 100 is the max, don't place more because maybe the AI goes crazy trying to figure out)
Attackbuilding streng = 20 (a low number, since the infantry have very low value).

But then, look at something.
Is the AI training units and moving them around their base or those soldiers are stacking at the entrance of the barraks?

If every unit trained by the AI is being moved around the base, is because the AI have a quota of units to guard his base.
"Guard group side" define how many units (quality + quantity) are going to protect the base, so those units don't attack (thus ignoring "first attack building delay" and "Time Bewteen attacks").

If you want to see how the AI is doing you have two options. One creating a reveal map event with a timer = 1, the value of the reveal map set to 0 (all the map is revealed). Or else using the test option in the editor and choose the house controling the AI. You can see everything he does (and even give orders to their units).

1 hour ago, Fey said:

Is it possible to allow the Mercenaries to build Missile Tanks, but not the Ordos or Smugglers? When I try to allow the Mercenaries to build Missile Tanks, the Mercenaries count as an Ordos faction, apparently, despite the Mercenaries using a unique Heavy Factory, so it allows the Ordos and Smugglers to be able to build them with normal Ordos factories. Has someone figured this out already, by any chance?

Is possible right?
I don't use too much tibed, but I have a crazy video which I make the "sandworm side" (Index = 8) be able to build the three heavy factories at once, having separated queues.

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Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try that. I wasn't sure exactly how the strength worked, and surely the time will help.

I figured Morale was a percentage, but I wasn't quite sure. Thank you.

In response to your query about the infantry doing stuff, they make a couple of them guard the base, literally just two or three, and then the rest decide to just chill at the barracks for a long time.

Usually I just change my side to theirs using debug so I can watch them do stuff. Easier than adding a new trigger, right?

Yes, it's possible to do the thing with the missile tanks. I got it to work :) If you have a link to that video, I would love to see it. I'm always up for learning new tricks.

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6 hours ago, Fey said:

3. I'm using the Gruntmods Edition with a decent window to look at the mission from. It resets to 640x480 or whatever Dune 2k is normally set to whenever I quick launch from the editor :(

I can deal with it, I was just wondering is all.

4. Good to know about the in-game messages. I actually already checked out some of the Sandstorm missions! Or, at least, their briefings. >.> I only played through a couple of levels in the Fremen campaign, the miniature Mercenary campaign, and I think an Emperor mission so far. There's a lot to look at.

Good to know about in-game messages. Do people usually play campaigns with... 640x480? I play at, like, 1024x768. I mean, I guess I could try and tune messages for the smallest resolutions, it would ensure maximum compatibility... eh, I'll figure it out later.

Huh? The win event in A1V1 doesn't work? That's preposterous, I tested it myself and it worked just fine! :( I'll give it a look, see what I can do about fixing it.

Thanks for the feedback. I've been working on spice balance, actually; I try to put temporary fields in the open and replenishing fields against cliffs or in corners, just so the spice blooms don't murder everyone. There are exceptions where spice fields in the middle of a killing field have blooms, just for higher intensity, but that's done on purpose. As for distance to the player's base, I think a good example of that sort of that balance is H3V1... there's a single spice field very close to the player's base, and then there are more spice fields spread around, demanding the eventual production of harvesters. But, to start, there should be enough to get some production going. Not enough, though, it needs a buff... you get the idea.

I've been drawing up some new briefings. The missions in the Atreides, Ordos, and Harkonnen campaigns will definitely be based on the original campaign, but I'll try and expand on stuff. Like, here's the new briefing for A1V1:

  Reveal hidden contents

ATREIDES 01: The Atreides Gain

     On a balcony overlooking the first Atreides base on Arrakis, you reflect on the journey here. The troops below look disciplined and toil diligently and loyally to organize and move out, as you requested. Despite their genuine enthusiasm, you cannot help but wonder if these proud, honorable men can hope to stand against the ruthlessness of the Harkonnen. No doubt, now that you've made your choice, you'll face enemies who take pleasure in battle, and will murder those men without a moment's hesitation.

     The sound of weighted footsteps blew along the ramparts with the howling wind, and you turn to face a regally-decorated man approaching you. Despite his relatively small stature, his grayed, but thick hair offered an impression of wisdom. As suddenly as you turned, he greeted you with an amiable, but formal expression and extended his hand to you. You shake it firmly.

     "Welcome, Commander," he says, glancing down at your hand, and then looking you in the eyes. "I see you've already familiarized yourself with the men. That's very good. I am Noree Moneo, Mentat to the Duke." He turns to look over the balcony. You do the same. After a pause filled with contemplation, he continues with remorse disguised by his dutiful tone: "Are you wondering about the conscripts? Surely you've been briefed on the dangers already; this bloody sand pit eats careless men alive. It's crawling with Harkonnen, who'd rather drink our blood than their mother's milk. Filled with sand worms the length of a hundred men. They'd be clinging to the safty of rocks like children."

     The tragedy of war clouds your mind with doubts.

     You look in his direction with a disheartened gaze. Noree meets it with puzzling confidence. "Let me remind you we are here to fight for the Duke. For the Duke, we will mine Spice in the Imperial Basin, and for the Duke, we will rid this land of Harkonnen." With a hand placed on your shoulder, his faith in the Atreides is felt through the strength of his grip. "Keep that in mind, and you'll be a Dune man, yet." He lets go and faces forward again.

     You continue to look at him expectantly, and as a flurry of whirring Trikes rides off into the distance over the sands below, Noree explains, at last. "The Harkonnen have already made their presence known. Our scouts report they've air-lifted a construction crew into the Imperial Basin. You will demolish the base there and establish your own. We need that Spice, Commander. Make the Duke proud."

     You're left alone on the balcony to watch the Trikes disappear over the dunes.

     Loyalty. Therein lied the secret to the Atreides, the truth that hadn't quite set in until just now. Now that you've been given your task, it's time to give the men something to die for.

OBJECTIVES:
1. Drive the Harkonnen out of the region.
2. Establish an Atreides base.
3. Mine 2,500 Solaris.

Good luck.

Given that there won't be cinematics to go on, I'd like to tell a bit of story in the briefing. You know, text screen-style, like in Doom, for instance. Give some character to the faction you're playing, give context in an engaging sort of way, and give the story a bit more depth.

I've also been wanting to play around with some lore, too, but I see someone has already done a defense of Shield Wall and Arrakeen map. :P

Edit: Hey, I've been playing around with the AI editing. I'm trying to make the AI attack in very tiny groups (for testing purposes at this juncture), and I looked over your AI functions tutorial, but they just keep spamming Light Infantry (that's the only infantry they're set to build) and never really seem to attack. At all. Any ideas about why this might be happening? Or, am I just not looking at the right functions?

If it helps to mention, I set their buildrate to 1 and I've tried setting their AttackBuildingStrength, ProtectStrength, and DefendStrength to 5, 4, 3, 50, 40, 30, and 500, 400, 300, respectively. None of it seems to work.

Very interesting briefings, and unique, it is like reading a book :D Good idea, and you quite know to make it sound really good. I also love a good atmosphere before I start a mission, as it really makes u feel that you play that mission for a reason, that it has a purpose, it's not just "let's beat the AI" like skirmish. Also, I also agree with giving each side a good image and profile through the briefings, that's what I did in War of Assassins/Sandstorm. For example, the desperate alliance between the Atreides and Ordos breaks since the Ordos want more technology, and they explicitly call it a "move for profit" instead of "betrayal" as there is no such word in their dictionary (like literally none). Also, the Harkonnen are supposed to be one of the strongest Houses in the known universe (and the strongest between the three of them present in Dune2000, with Atreides following after), so I made the missions in such a way that they are very strong at the beginning, and they would have probably won the war if the Emperor didn't get involved. However, the big blow for them was the rebellion of their people, which does happen for a House that rules over its people with terror and torture. Also, House Ordos is extremely weak compared to the other two Houses; they only have money, but their military strength is very low, and this is emphasized in the briefing when the Ordos Executrix states Ordos will not win the war on the battlefield. In my opinion, these profiles for the three Houses could be generally correct for any Dune campaigns that want to stick to the original view, as that's the way it was in the books (with the exception of Ordos ofc, who do not exist in the books).

 

I write a lot when it comes to plots and stories, I know :D To sum it up, I really like the way you presented the briefings, and I'm curios how the next briefings will look like. 

 

EDIT: Didn't have time to test the rest of the missions today, got home from work pretty late then I watched my country's teams playing in Europa League, I'll hopefully do it tomorrow evening :) About the A1V1 event, I don't know, everything Harkonnen-based was dead except the walls (i triple checked the map, no shroud left) plus i had over 4000 credits. It did not fire.

Edited by FedaYkin
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Just now, FedaYkin said:

Very interesting briefings, and unique, it is like reading a book :D Good idea, and you quite know to make it sound really good. I also love a good atmosphere before I start a mission, as it really makes u feel that you play that mission for a reason, that it has a purpose, it's not just "let's beat the AI" like skirmish. Also, I also agree with giving each side a good image and profile through the briefings, that's what I did in War of Assassins/Sandstorm. For example, the desperate alliance between the Atreides and Ordos breaks since the Ordos want more technology, and they explicitly call it a "move for profit" instead of "betrayal" as there is no such word in their dictionary (like literally none). Also, the Harkonnen are supposed to be one of the strongest Houses in the known universe (and the strongest between the three of them present in Dune2000, with Atreides following after), so I made the missions in such a way that they are very strong at the beginning, and they would have probably won the war if the Emperor didn't get involved. However, the big blow for them was the rebellion of their people, which does happen for a House that rules over its people with terror and torture. Also, House Ordos is extremely weak compared to the other two Houses; they only have money, but their military strength is very low, and this is emphasized in the briefing when the Ordos Executrix states Ordos will not win the war on the battlefield. In my opinion, these profiles for the three Houses could be generally correct for any Dune campaigns that want to stick to the original view, as that's the way it was in the books (with the exception of Ordos ofc, who do not exist in the books).

 

I write a lot when it comes to plots and stories, I know :D To sum it up, I really like the way you presented the briefings, and I'm curios how the next briefings will look like. 

Thank you. That's very encouraging.

Yeah, that makes sense. It's said in Emperor that they have hundreds of words for profit, and no words for the concept of trust, so betrayal, naturally, wouldn't exist. I'm very eager to figure out more potential stuff for the Ordos, since I barely know anything about their lore.

I actually adjusted my strategy a bit and plan on using some named characters. For instance, the Atreides field commander you'll play as is, currently, named Cyril Victor. Guess where I got that first name :P

I should say it was very inspiring to see the interactions you came up with for the War of Assassins campaign. It really gives one ideas about the lengths to which they could go...

I'll be sure to update this thread with any major changes. Hey, what do you think about giving the mercenaries Missile Tanks? I'm sure it irks every Dune 2000 player ever that the Ordos can't build Missile Tanks, but if they can buy an ally that can use them... well, it seems like it would make sense.

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I'm fine with that, mercs could use some more firepower. Although they could get them from the starport (for free), since the most iconic thing for the mercenaries is, and i'm sure we all agree on this, the starport receiving free reinforcements, so either way works fine if you ask me.

 

EDIT: Wasn't Cyril the name of the Atreides mentat from Dune 2? It's been a long time so I might be totally wrong :)

Edited by FedaYkin
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Oh yeah, I hated (in a jealous sort of way) how they always got free stuff from the starport. I wanted to order twenty infantry from the starport like they could, but noooo! I always found it kind of odd that they ordered stuff, though; the Ordos are the guys that buy stuff, and they buy the Mercenaries' help to conquer Arrakis, but the Mercenaries just buy stuff from their starport, too... maybe it'd be more fitting for them to produce units. I dunno, maybe that's just me.

Yes, that was indeed the name of the Atreides mentat from Dune 2. :) I'm not gonna make borrowing names a habit, but... I needed to start somewhere!

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1 hour ago, Fey said:

Oh yeah, I hated (in a jealous sort of way) how they always got free stuff from the starport. I wanted to order twenty infantry from the starport like they could, but noooo! I always found it kind of odd that they ordered stuff, though; the Ordos are the guys that buy stuff, and they buy the Mercenaries' help to conquer Arrakis, but the Mercenaries just buy stuff from their starport, too... maybe it'd be more fitting for them to produce units. I dunno, maybe that's just me.

Yes, that was indeed the name of the Atreides mentat from Dune 2. :) I'm not gonna make borrowing names a habit, but... I needed to start somewhere!

Being fair, the poor Mercs won't do any regular orders.

Is bad to think that Ammon looks more human that Cyril?

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Just now, Cm_blast said:

Being fair, the poor Mercs won't do any regular orders.

Is bad to think that Ammon looks more human that Cyril?

The Ordos mentat? He does look pretty human to me. So does Cyril. Lol

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The Harkonnen mentat however... let's just say he can scare a kid really badly

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Hahah. The evil eyebrows, right? :P

I've been experimenting with the features of the new editor, and I think I came up with at least the first mission of a Smugglers campaign. I also bugfixed a few things in the mod that would cause fatal crashes!

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So, you're saying that you started working on a Smuggler campaign?

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Ah, well... I suppose I have. This new editor is great; I was able to throw the thing together super fast and efficiently. I ran into a few glitches, but that was with the mod on account of some experimental changes made recently, not, uhh, not the map.

>.> I guess I could drop the briefing here...

Spoiler

 

SMUGGLERS 01: Petty Thievery

     As you watch the furious sandstorm through your Carryall's window, you wonder if the endless desolation will ever end. It's been bad luck after bad luck - rumors of a great war fast approaching, circulating mere days after your arrival. Nearly caught by Sardaukar while attempting to reach your Smuggler contact. Now, the very planet was trying to eat you alive.

     For the promises of wealth, power and prestige the other commanders uttered to you, all you've been in charge of thus far were logistical mining operations with only the occasional sandworm to deal with, issued by no more than lackeys to the Smuggler leader. Certainly not appropriate for a woman of your intelligence and skill.

     An attendant standing to your left draws your attention with a sealed letter meant for you. Could it be that you were finally being informed of what you were doing in this Carryall, flying out to nowhere? In desperate need of the distraction, you accept it quickly and skim the cover.

     EYES ONLY: ROWE SUMMERS

     That's you. Once the attendant walks away, you open the letter and begin to read:

**************************************************

     Commander Summers,

     The news has finally come out. The emperor has issued a challenge to each of the Great Houses - whoever can produce the most spice will control its source. It's said there will be no rules to how they can achieve the goal.

     Do you know what this means? It means Arrakis is about to be neck-deep in blood and chaos. Our blood, if we don't afford some security. That means we need Spice.

     Corrino's been buckling down on us and all my other field commanders are busy assassinating scouting parties and fending off Imperial raids, so I finally have a task for you: Raid Pasty Mesa. Two weakly-defended Imperial mining camps are located in the mountains you're headed to. When you get there, take command of our outpost's defenses. It's a new base and the Imperials haven't attacked it yet, so we can only assume they don't know about it yet. Use the element of surprise to your advantage. Your targets are the Imperial silos. Destroy them, pillage the Spice contained within, and when you're done, scram before reinforcements arrive. You're of no use to us dead, and I have more work lined up for you.

     Remember that the worms are attracted to vibrations in the sand, so keep an eye out and don't let your Raiders wander to their deaths. I'm giving you limited units for this mission. We're spread thin as it is.

     Don't worry yourself too much. Since this is your first operation, I'll be in constant communication. After this, you're on your own.

     Finally, don't think that just because this is your first mission that it's not important. This is a trying time for our organisation and you're expected to carry out your orders to the best of your ability. You've found us, and proven you're worthy of our attention. We're outlaws, and our lives are fraught with peril, but with great risk comes great reward: Water, coffee, liquor, and Spice. Serve us long enough and you'll earn your wealth. If you should fail in your grasp for power, know we'll smuggle you safely off-planet, if you can afford it.

     Welcome to Dune.

     - Ketua Sumadi

**************************************************

     At last, recognition from the Smuggler leader. As the Carryall sets down on a high plateau overlooking Pasty Mesa, you think to yourself that you will, indeed, earn your wealth. The troops are awaiting your command. It's time to get started.

PRIMARY OBJECTIVES:
1. Destroy all Imperial silos.
2. Pillage 10,000 Solaris.

 

And the map image...


It's just level 1, so it has a pretty small size. I dunno if it'll go anywhere, but I can say I know more about the new program than I did earlier! I mean, I've got a rough story draft drawn up and stuff, but, well, you know, there are a LOT of maps to do, so... I dunno if or when I'll get around to it :P

If you're curious for more details about the map itself...

Spoiler

I included some custom text (Sumadi does indeed keep in constant communication, commenting on your progress and letting you know you're receiving reinforcements, and the Imperial infantry right outside your base will shout when they see you), and it's over pretty fast. You get four combat tanks, four quads, and eight raiders. Most of the Smuggler buildings are there for decoration, except for the repair pad and outpost. The Imperial AIs do indeed send Sardaukar and even tanks at you, but they're not extremely dangerous, given that their production rate is pretty low and you have enough firepower to burst enemy resistance down pretty easily.

As for the rough story draft...

Spoiler

Essentially, the Smuggler campaign is about evading Imperial law enforcement and ensuring the future of the Smugglers by seeking protection with or striking alliances / deals with the various Houses. Rowe may have her own opinions about how the Smugglers' goals should be reached, and if this does become a thing, that will definitely come into play.

Edited by Fey
Few more details...
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