RRTX, what would it need to be profitable now?

[Viconius]

One more thing... sort of. What if it's not called Railroad Tycoon?

[CrownVic95]

Sorry to give wrong info there.   Because I had a custom map loaded, I couldn't load the originals to test it.

 

Found some better info, and tested it. It seems that you can never have NO track on the map, so you must build some more first that must start at one of the ends of your starting track. Also, you actually need to select the track by your starting terminal and then delete that. As long as you have another section of track on the map this will work. The guys over there talked about this trick, but didn't reveal the exact way they are using it. Maybe so that they had an edge in multiplayer matches? I am yet to see the use of this trick.

 

Here's an idea to start somewhere else on the map relying on the fact that most track building costs get refunded to you when you delete track. You need to lay rail across the map with as little extra cost for leveling as possible. Uproot the track behind you and you can get a long way before you burn through 200k. There is no real point to bulldozing your original terminal unless you feel that this is the only way to prevent this from seeming like a cheat. 

 

Also, engine costs are refunded completely if they are brand new, some people use this trick to buy extra trains to force trains onto the right track of a multiple track station/siding. And then simply keep the one they want and retire (get money back) on the rest. (Nobody's pretending that realism is this game's strong point.)

Ok, that works. And true enough that you get back most of the cost of track when you delete it. For the terminal, I got back $75,000....which at first seems half the cost, but is really only 1/4th of the cost to build a new one considering the necessary stages of depot, station, terminal.

 

Though it may not technically be a cheat, it feels too much like one to me to capture much interest. Considering that in reality tearing up all that track would just be a significant added cost, rather than a refund. The only scenario where I could see ever wanting to use this would be for a map generated with far superior resource quantity and placement that you knew would never be repeated in a hundred more restarts.

 

For now I prefer saving, at the start, a map generated with the start city you want and using it as a platform for new games.

 

And thanks for the extra engine idea for multiple track stations. But I probably won't use it for the same reason. Having to resort to that kind of silliness is the kind of thing that just makes me shake my head and go back to RRTII.

 

None of that nonsense in RRTII with double tracking or in the original Railroad Tycoon, if memory serves. And for years I just took for granted that they just simply and smoothly work. Sid had to have known better, but someone or something forced an unfinished Railroads! game to release, as Gwizz has said.

[Gwizz]

I finally crashed Railroads stock market.  I merged one AI but the other two AIs had stock in all RRs including a majority control in my RR. It took 18 million to do it.  I took out the AI owning the most stock in all Railroads.  Like in real life when the biggest stock holder went down the other followed.   

 

In the real world the market is set up so that the biggest stock holders control the market.  Maybe when the real crash comes, it will happenn so fast the members of the exchange won't have time to hit the freeze button.  

They did a successful stop the market about a week ago.

 

Whom ever did the games "stock market" did a good job of repucating it.

 

 

 

What was left out if the finished game:  I'd have to think about that. I might be able to  do a cut and paste.

My memory is no longer what it used to be. 

[MaglevForever]

So, what would a system that was able to pull in resources to a city based on it's size and the resource proximity? If the game system encouraged more city investing/services like you saw up until the 1950's. Encourage the city to grow, it will gather more things without more stations. Dedicated stations would still be required for some things, but not all due to proximity and cost.

 

I'm thinking that this would mitigate some of the open world issues with resources and at the same time provide a focus for players to invest in cities as another new or better scenario goal.

 

Should station upgrades be IN the open 3d world or tucked inside of a "station" diorama? My joy meter says outside, but the peanut butter in me says it's going to be messy visually.

This is basically where I was going with my ideas to fix the RT3 cargo re-hauling game flaws. Good point about the development of the cities before 1950. Generally it seems unrealistic to have a collection station in the countryside simply covering a resource or two given the scale of the maps which are normally at least state or even country size. Normally, cities will spring up along the rail line at most important hubs, and a small town could be used for the major mining districts or even a special station for those places that only run unit trains in modern times. What you said about scale is 100% true, I also think that it's critical to decide first before designing play options around this decision. Having a siding for each industry works for the scale of Trainz and pure sims, but loses it appeal as the scale grows (shrinks?).

 

With good graphical design I don't see a reason that station upgrades couldn't be outside the stations, and still retain a nice look and feel. That brings up another point of whether freight switching yards could be included in an abstract way but still having an effect on gameplay possibly increasing the overhead and increasing the distance bonus for haulage, while hopefully not sacrificing realism?

 

I tend to like the way in RT3 that cargo will reach industry and cargoes will be produced where the player doesn't have a network yet. The fact that many resources in RTII are basically just eye-candy as they never come into play in a standard game is a slight realism spoiler. Railroads! is in the same boat as far as needing player involvement before any industries will start producing. On the inverse side, Railroads! is all about investing in the cities and arranging service to help strategic ones grow which is a nice feature. The routing problems are the main thing that keep me from playing Railroads! more, all I can do is try to keep signals to an absolute minimum, and use re-routing to un-jam most "stuck" situations, it's just tedious. The random bonuses also take some of the challenge out of the game, as receiving a good one such as the mail price increase will make any hard start game seem almost easy even on Robber Baron. Business challenge is lacking, and together with trains that looked further ahead with the signals, and a bit of bug-fixing would make me at least play that game regularly. Custom maps have been made much larger than the original ones so this partially fixes the scale issues, but could always be improved some more.

[Gwizz]

Still testing Sids Railroads.  

 

But, First:    RRT2 code was old and not easy for the programers to work with.

 

            RRT3 was built on a newer different engine.  I don't know where it came from or who wrote the code.

 

            I was not happy when passengers were removed from RRT3 ports.   That is why the Gwizz-Port was created.   

            There was a list of features that were tried and dropped..  I thought I had the list on a CD but I'm not finding it.  

            I know that when I receive the work in progress for RRT3, I felt the game was not finished, Yet there was a rush to get it out the door.

            It went Gold over the week-end. 

 

 

 

            I want to take data off of my old floppies and put it on USB sticks.  First I need to set up some old equipment to do this.

 

           I'm not sure it is worth the effort to remodel the RRT2 engine.

 

          The RRT3 engine seemed to have problems as well.  There is a war tank running around looking for a train to shoot at.

           It was fun but I never figured out a good purpose for it.  Maybe as a RR car ferry that could be controled.

 

          Sid has a talent for RR games and I believe that there is a lot that could be done with Sid's Railroad game.

          It seems solid but it was made for a duel purpose. For Tycoon fans and a version, toy like, for a younger generation.

 

         My 6 year old grandson has it on his i-pad.  He was showing me how it works.  It has been simplfied and modified a lot.

         He got frustrated with me when I wanted to try it.  You just don't argue with a 7 year old.  He won.  So I still don't really know how it works.

 

     I like Sids Railroads game.   It has a lot of potential.  

 

Near the end of todays game I had lots of cash, 12 million plus more $ by removing AI track and bridges.  I ended up with 31 locomotives and the last AI has about 10 more.  I will merge him during the last year.  He built a fine looking curved wooden bridge. 

[Viconius]

Okay, here is a more free form question:

• This is assuming core code to support user and developer content was in as well as the core game. If project scope needed to get more condensed (content costs) would a core game with assets for say just Steam Locomotives and US architecture of say 1880-1930 be an okay subset to START?

Just so you guys understand, I'm actually trying to get something going but not trying to MOD an existing title. I'm also not going to try and get this coded by some people with spare time. If it works... IF... I actually plan on making something real from scratch. I'm hoping to know something by mid next month. So I REALLY appreciate your input.

[Gwizz]

This is a big job for one person.  I will help where I can.  At first keep the project simple.

 

I would suggest creating an open flow chart on your computer.  Chart what you want to accomplish. 

 

Discribe what is to happen and what programing will be needed.  You can always add to the chart later as you progress.

 

Good Luck

[CrownVic95]

Okay, here is a more free form question:

• This is assuming core code to support user and developer content was in as well as the core game. If project scope needed to get more condensed (content costs) would a core game with assets for say just Steam Locomotives and US architecture of say 1880-1930 be an okay subset to START?

Just so you guys understand, I'm actually trying to get something going but not trying to MOD an existing title. I'm also not going to try and get this coded by some people with spare time. If it works... IF... I actually plan on making something real from scratch. I'm hoping to know something by mid next month. So I REALLY appreciate your input.

Yes, that's about the time frame I would use. In fact, I often input 1880 as a start year because you have the Consolidation by then. For me, steam is where the nostalgic interest lies. But not so much with the earliest engines as they were so limited and slow. The more capable locomotives make for a much more captivating game.

 

So you're a developer and you're going to write this yourself? Bravo! I did a lot of programming myself in the earliest days of home computing on the Commodore 64. It was so easy to learn back then with the excellent and readily available basic manuals. But I got lazy when that era soon ended and moved to the IBM PC platform. I never went out of my way to make the transition and I kick myself for it. Because I, too, have often thought (dreamed is more like it) about writing my own new RRT game.

 

How extensive is your background in game development? 

[Viconius]

I've been making games full-time since '93, but did it part-time starting in '85. I'm currently working with 3 other people that are interested in this project with whom I've worked in the past. We lost our jobs a little while ago and when I suggested this project, they said yes so we started working. We've got an unattractive track laying prototype working with bridges and tunnels and some temporary world tech. It all looks very promising and we're hoping to be able to spin up the company based on this project. Anyway, we are working to get a kickstarter project going and hope to start it by 5/15. IF it works, we've got other people lined up to get working ASAP. 

 

We've all been beat up over the years by the industry, or at least by the decision makers and we thought we'd do something about it if possible. Our biggest issue has been the cost of doing business here in the US, investors want guarantees for the kind of money we need. I've always found that notion to be counter to the taking of risk, but that's the rules for this "game". I'm not talking about absorbent salaries for a bunch of kids having Nerf gun fights and a juice box bar. We're kinda boring old geeks and we've seen the flash and sizzle companies and been burned. We'll try for something different and more grounded in reality.

 

I have a special fondness for games based on simulating real-world concepts and so does our core team. I'm hoping that we can provide games that are generally ignored by console and mobile game companies. Although we like many of those as well, we feel this market is underserved. Hopefully, I'll be able to talk with you guys more with no veils in the near future. I've been stalking the boards like the Terminal and Hawk & Badger for years. I always ended up having to stop because it was so frustrating to not see things happen.

[Viconius]

This is a big job for one person.  I will help where I can.  At first keep the project simple.

 

I would suggest creating an open flow chart on your computer.  Chart what you want to accomplish. 

 

Discribe what is to happen and what programing will be needed.  You can always add to the chart later as you progress.

 

Good Luck

Oops, did this out of order. That and some proof of concept work is what we're hammering on now. We've approached "money" people already but getting them to act is like pulling a 5-mile consist up the Rockies with a 3-truck Shay... it has a chance but we can't count on it. Right now our plan looks like we could get done in about 12 months. It's a pretty solid estimate but we have some dependencies that could push it out. We plan on being pretty transparent about the process since unlike business types, we don't have anything to hide in particular. As a kickstarter project, we're hoping to appeal to those that want this project and can see we're not being flighty. That's pretty much it, besides the full details that will be coming out soon.

 

I've learned that these things can disintegrate fast, but so far so good. If we get the response I'm hoping for we'll have something to talk about over the next 15 years.  :D

[CrownVic95]

I've been making games full-time since '93, but did it part-time starting in '85. I'm currently working with 3 other people that are interested in this project with whom I've worked in the past. We lost our jobs a little while ago and when I suggested this project, they said yes so we started working. We've got an unattractive track laying prototype working with bridges and tunnels and some temporary world tech. It all looks very promising and we're hoping to be able to spin up the company based on this project. Anyway, we are working to get a kickstarter project going and hope to start it by 5/15. IF it works, we've got other people lined up to get working ASAP. 

 

We've all been beat up over the years by the industry, or at least by the decision makers and we thought we'd do something about it if possible. Our biggest issue has been the cost of doing business here in the US, investors want guarantees for the kind of money we need. I've always found that notion to be counter to the taking of risk, but that's the rules for this "game". I'm not talking about absorbent salaries for a bunch of kids having Nerf gun fights and a juice box bar. We're kinda boring old geeks and we've seen the flash and sizzle companies and been burned. We'll try for something different and more grounded in reality.

 

I have a special fondness for games based on simulating real-world concepts and so does our core team. I'm hoping that we can provide games that are generally ignored by console and mobile game companies. Although we like many of those as well, we feel this market is underserved. Hopefully, I'll be able to talk with you guys more with no veils in the near future. I've been stalking the boards like the Terminal and Hawk & Badger for years. I always ended up having to stop because it was so frustrating to not see things happen.

Well, I'm routing for you. And I would love to see a new game tailored not by the "flash and sizzle" crowd, but by "boring old geeks" - of which I'm one! :)

 

I wonder how many of us are left? Which goes back to the question you opened with. I just don't know, but my sense is that we're of a group dwindling in number. As why else is Flight Simulator gone, along with simulation games generally?

 

A 1995 Lincoln Town Car is far superior in almost every way to cars produced today, but tell that to the kids and they just laugh. The mindset of current youth is one I've given up trying to understand. I don't want to be a downer, but if I were writing a new RRT game today, it wouldn't be for the expectation of profits. It would be for the love of the game. 

 

Best of luck to you proving my hunch to be misguided! 

 

By the way, are you in the US or elsewhere?

[Viconius]

I'm in the US. I agree that it's possible to be wrong on the topic, although I think as I mentioned before it's likely that the topic is just not presented in a way that modern consumers expect because it's been so long since it's been done. My best example would be Cities: Skyline. Paradox never expected the kind of results they got because they saw even big games like SimCity Online tank hard. The difference was SCO was a BAD GAME on top of a bad monetization system. Cities: Skyline is the opposite and people have come to it in wonderful numbers, I'd be happy with their first month alone. It's still a geek game, but it's a complete game with graphics and presentation that customers today want.

 

Back in the 90's we got a lot of games because only the geeks did game dev... they did what they knew. Over time the new people and the "hip" people started to steer towards trends and not just games. Trend following in this industry is horrendous. If you tell someone that you could make a game for $1m and earn $8m over 2 years, they'd say no. For the most part it's all run by big money sources and the numbers need to be 10x these. The mobile market switched that around for a brief time but the big money condensed small teams and now they are huge and FARM games. Literally and figuratively. So, I don't expect this to be a GIANT money maker, but I expect that it'll allow us to keep going and scratch the un-scratched niche of core PC game players that are actually larger in number than they were before 2000 world wide.

 

I've "learned" to understand todays customers. In the end they are just like us, but have different types of tolerances and expectations. Since most people are very consumer oriented, they have specific ideals of what is "good" and "bad". All of which makes sense otherwise advertisement agencies would be out of business if things never changed. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I think there will be an uptick in old geek gamers over the next 15 years or so since so many baby boomers around the world will be retiring and finding other entertainment activities. The "techie" retirees are only now just hitting the markets and as their bad backs fill doctor's offices in record numbers, they'll be looking for more to do indoors too.

 

Thanks for the encouragement though, it's appreciated.

[MaglevForever]

Good to see that you are serious about this. As you said, making a great game should be the first consideration. Everyone sets out to do this but whether due to a poor plan or implementation decisions, management forcing their hand, the money men being impatient for a return, or many other potential issues this can be difficult to achieve. Best of luck with this project! I hope everything goes smoothly for your team.

 

I know little about programming, but isn't most of the hard work in developing the game engine, 3D world, and code for the various features that give a game it's strategic value? Does content creation take almost as much time as the actual coding? I have no problem with starting with a limited time period and location. At the end of the day, focusing on quality is sure to make the game last longer and you can add stuff later.

 

The name doesn't matter for me. That is an advertising decision, as long as the game is solid, I really don't care.

 

You didn't discuss the stock market yet. What are your plans for this? Except for Railroads!, the stock market has been a fairly important part of the games. While I like the more general stock market, I have never enjoyed the robber baron style of play. I have never felt that any scenario I played was designed around this behavior, it seems more like a semi-legal cheat. I know some people like this style of play, but I would at least like to see that there is a fairly substantial risk for bad in-game consequences when a player uses these methods. I am surprised to slowly discover more and more loopholes the game developers left (either strategically or accidentally) in both RTII and RT3 that open all sorts of doors that can give almost free money. If you have cheat codes, maybe they should not give true medals/awards but have a pirate(?) symbol next to a medal/award obtained with them.

[CrownVic95]

My view on the stock market may well be that of a small minority, but here's my 2 cents worth.

 

I don't like the stock market and would rather see a new game without it. When playing a game, my participation in it has never been for any purpose but to prevent being bought out. And I have always considered that threat to be an annoying distraction from the true enjoyment that the game otherwise provides.

 

My vote is put the financial manipulation in a different game altogether for those who enjoy it and leave RRT to railroaders just wanting to make an honest living building and running the best railroad.

[CrownVic95]

I'm in the US. I agree that it's possible to be wrong on the topic, although I think as I mentioned before it's likely that the topic is just not presented in a way that modern consumers expect because it's been so long since it's been done. My best example would be Cities: Skyline. Paradox never expected the kind of results they got because they saw even big games like SimCity Online tank hard. The difference was SCO was a BAD GAME on top of a bad monetization system. Cities: Skyline is the opposite and people have come to it in wonderful numbers, I'd be happy with their first month alone. It's still a geek game, but it's a complete game with graphics and presentation that customers today want.

 

Back in the 90's we got a lot of games because only the geeks did game dev... they did what they knew. Over time the new people and the "hip" people started to steer towards trends and not just games. Trend following in this industry is horrendous. If you tell someone that you could make a game for $1m and earn $8m over 2 years, they'd say no. For the most part it's all run by big money sources and the numbers need to be 10x these. The mobile market switched that around for a brief time but the big money condensed small teams and now they are huge and FARM games. Literally and figuratively. So, I don't expect this to be a GIANT money maker, but I expect that it'll allow us to keep going and scratch the un-scratched niche of core PC game players that are actually larger in number than they were before 2000 world wide.

 

I've "learned" to understand todays customers. In the end they are just like us, but have different types of tolerances and expectations. Since most people are very consumer oriented, they have specific ideals of what is "good" and "bad". All of which makes sense otherwise advertisement agencies would be out of business if things never changed. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I think there will be an uptick in old geek gamers over the next 15 years or so since so many baby boomers around the world will be retiring and finding other entertainment activities. The "techie" retirees are only now just hitting the markets and as their bad backs fill doctor's offices in record numbers, they'll be looking for more to do indoors too.

 

Thanks for the encouragement though, it's appreciated.

Thank you for that insight. Makes all the sense in the world and explains exactly what I've seen.

 

I'm so glad you popped in here and I'm excited about your project!

[Gwizz]

Game mechanics are always changing.  People styles are different.  How many of the todays youth know much about a steam engine or care to?

 

Different individual likes often are at odds.   A game needs to be flexable,  kind of like many games all within one game.

 

 

I have programed well over 100 tycoon maps.  I use the old IBM flow charting and often hand charted my direction.  problems were then easy to discover.

 

Within a map, I often used choice buttons to allow players to fine tune play style.

 

 

 

There for:     The best games seem too have the choice factor built in, with some type of set-up choice buttons.

                     

 

    Buttons  for:         Stock Market                 Yes,       Some or     none at all

                                Extra cash yes or no      None     or a bank loan with interest and pay back, etc.

                                Skill level                       Easy,     Normal,     Hard or    Very Hard.

                                Etc.

 

In other words a good game needs to serve as many different playing styles as possible to be successful over time. 

 

 

My source code programing skills are very rusty.  So, my help maybe limited. But again, I will help where I can.

[Viconius]

Thanks for all the feedback folks, nice to hear.

 

The thing I'm thinking of is making the stock market into something more abstract, but I'm not ready to throw it out there yet. However, I think the game needs some of the tycoon manipulation to keep the feel in line. I know it was often ignored which means that the focus of the player even back in 98 was more casual. The upside to RT2 was that the game played fine without HAVING to use the stock market. In the end, getting thrown out of your company is never fun but the threat of that situation is fun, adds a sense of urgency and drama.

 

We're definitely focusing on trains and railroad building, that is core to the fun. That game must focus on resources and asset management. We're going to bake stock market for a bit and see if there's anything we can add or remove.

[CrownVic95]

Thanks for all the feedback folks, nice to hear.

 

The thing I'm thinking of is making the stock market into something more abstract, but I'm not ready to throw it out there yet. However, I think the game needs some of the tycoon manipulation to keep the feel in line. I know it was often ignored which means that the focus of the player even back in 98 was more casual. The upside to RT2 was that the game played fine without HAVING to use the stock market. In the end, getting thrown out of your company is never fun but the threat of that situation is fun, adds a sense of urgency and drama.

 

We're definitely focusing on trains and railroad building, that is core to the fun. That game must focus on resources and asset management. We're going to bake stock market for a bit and see if there's anything we can add or remove.

Not for me. I can only reiterate that I find that threat as enjoyable as I find the sudden explosion sound of a breakdown in RRTII enjoyable. My game would have neither.

 

You asked earlier whether the game should be named Railroad Tycoon. And my gut reaction was that it doesn't matter to me. But on deeper reflection, I realize that the "tycoon" aspect of the game is not at all what draws me to it. In fact, more and more as I age I am repulsed by the idea of financial manipulation conceptually. It is far too often a tool used by those short-changed when scruples/ethics were passed out for obscene personal gain that hurts lots of others in the process. Therefore, since I'd like to see a game with at least the option to play with your railroad privately held, I vote to take "tycoon" out of the name. 

[CrownVic95]

I finally crashed Railroads stock market.  I merged one AI but the other two AIs had stock in all RRs including a majority control in my RR. It took 18 million to do it.  I took out the AI owning the most stock in all Railroads.  Like in real life when the biggest stock holder went down the other followed.   

 

In the real world the market is set up so that the biggest stock holders control the market.  Maybe when the real crash comes, it will happenn so fast the members of the exchange won't have time to hit the freeze button.  

They did a successful stop the market about a week ago.

 

Whom ever did the games "stock market" did a good job of repucating it.

 

 

 

What was left out if the finished game:  I'd have to think about that. I might be able to  do a cut and paste.

My memory is no longer what it used to be. 

My apologies for another Railroads! post (not the thread topic). But since we had the dialogue about Railroads!, I wanted to ask if you have ever played Lama's California map. I downloaded it a couple days ago and just finished with better than double my previous high score, again as President of the United States.

 

It covers San Francisco, LA, and San Diego and most major towns between. And has you build east to Salt Lake City through Carson City, Winnemucca, and Elko. And down south out to Palm Springs, Death Valley, and Flagstaff. Definitely one of the better maps I've played in Railroads! and lots of fun.

[jeffryfisher]

This is assuming core code to support user and developer content was in as well as the core game.

If project scope needed to get more condensed (content costs) would a core game with assets for say

just Steam Locomotives and US architecture of say 1880-1930 be an okay subset to START?

Unless artwork is difficult to come by, I wouldn't restrict the time period. For the most part, covering

more decades of locomotives, cargoes, cars, industries etc is just adding to data tables, and we already

have gobs of those based on research we've done to mod RRT2.

I expect the big work of developing a replacement game to be things like routing and graphical animation

at multiple scales. Once you have difficult problems like that ironed out, then you may as well leverage

that work over as much data (time period and map richness) as possible to attract a wider audience.

User interface is a dual challenge as well, needing to be both intuitive and efficient. We can look at

what actions (such as locomotive replacement) become tedious in large RT2 companies, and then we can

develop extra layers of UI to alleviate the tedium in those situations.

Just so you guys understand, I'm actually trying to get something going but not trying to MOD an

existing title. I'm also not going to try and get this coded by some people with spare time.

If it works... IF... I actually plan on making something real from scratch. I'm hoping to know something

by mid next month. So I REALLY appreciate your input.

I am currently working, so I have almost zero time free. However, if/when my current contract ends, I

could be interested in coming on board. Have you picked a development language and IDE yet? Java and

Eclipse work for Minecraft, so they might work for this. The game would become (supposedly) platform

independent, and it would be amenable to modding, which could grow the audience.

[Viconius]

Hi guys,

Again, thanks for all the feedback. I'm in the process of lining up some artwork, hopefully a commitment to more than just the initial phase. It's with a great team I've worked with in the past and are an industry respected team and wicked good artists. I hope to know more by next week.

 

We're going to use the Unity 5 engine. Our team has quite a bit of experience with Unity and Steam. If I can get the money we'll be adding a friend who is a brilliant coder, probably the best guy I've ever seen in 30 years. He worked for lots of places on lots of lost causes. The only project that he worked on with significant success was Cave Dog on the Total Annihilation series. That said, he made a world generation system in about 3 weeks in Unity that was absolutely amazing and I want him to recreate that for us. Our CTO wants to see if there is anyway for us to legitimately use open source for something that won't simultaneously destroy us financially. As he said, we can do that when we have something to financially destroy. :)

 

This week has gone by with some ups and downs. It looks like we might have a fight with a partner that wants to start something else and he may start swinging at us. It'll just make it harder, but won't stop us because it's mostly an emotional fight, something that only seems to happen with "friends". Still, it's draining. This whole thing is like getting married to multiple partners demanding everything at the same time. We started the paperwork to create an LLC and the state of Washington says it'll be about 10 business days because they are running behind. I guess that's good for business. A few weeks after that we'll try and do a KickStarter project. It feels like a hail Mary pass... but a bit better. Sadly, I think we have to ask for too much money and that could crush this process. Not that others haven't asked and even received, but if something can go wrong, it probably will and that's as good as any reason. However, I think we'll burn that bridge when we get there. On the upside, the ugly track laying system... while still very ugly... already has tunnels, terrain leveling, ballast, track grade and bridging working. My squeals of joy know no bounds! It's not a game, but for those of us with a vision... it's like rays of light from heaven.

 

I may be slow to post, but I'll be sure to visit here often and sure to try and involve you guys for input. My years of stalking the boards have not been in vain... so to speak. As always, good night Terminal, I'll likely kill you in the morning.

[Gwizz]

I just read a net news item 4 or 5 days ago, about free government money and programs for start up businesses that generally are going unclaimed. 

 

It seems the money (Billions of dollars worth) have been approved for use and is just sitting in a bank account waiting to be given away.

 

There were other money programs going unused in the same news item.  I read net news items almost daily.  I didn't bookmark this one.  Sorry.

 

Maybe you can do a search of news items. 

[Viconius]

I just read a net news item 4 or 5 days ago, about free government money and programs for start up businesses that generally are going unclaimed. 

 

It seems the money (Billions of dollars worth) have been approved for use and is just sitting in a bank account waiting to be given away.

 

There were other money programs going unused in the same news item.  I read net news items almost daily.  I didn't bookmark this one.  Sorry.

 

Maybe you can do a search of news items. 

Thanks Gwizz, I'll take a look. These kind of funds have been around but usually had a very specific need the business must meet. Still, can't hurt to take a look.

[Viconius]

Gwizz, did you use any specific scale when you made maps for RT2? did you have a preference?

[Gwizz]

The bigger the area that the map covered, at least for RRT2 and 3,  Then the smaller the trains would be.  The trains didn't change size.

 

I liked smaller maps as the size became more realistic. and game time was shorter. 

 

My Spokane City map was the same size as my US map.   Yet, scale wise they were very different.  

 

The Trainz maps were again different in another way because it depended upon how many tables the layout used for the maps.  

All of the maps (tables) could fit together to form one large map in your computer.  Sid's Railroads is like that. 

 

Of course you could zoom a map and do the same thing as in the google map program.  I zoomed down to the Copper Canyon RR in Mexico.

 

Although the Google map was not real time,  The trains and track I saw were real.  I don't think scale is that important for computer gaming.

 

Now, If you were building an HO model train layout, scale is important.  1/87 scale.