RRTX, what would it need to be profitable now?

[jeffryfisher]

My initial runs show little, if any, speed penalty for pulling 6 cars with only one filled.

Long trains are not only heavier, but they cover more track too. That can be a problem at intersections, because each train blocks traffic (or is overrun) for a longer time. It can be a big headache if a train is long enough to occupy two busy branches at the same time.

[jeffryfisher]

My 2c on the main topic:

1) Gamewise, I'd prefer to work from RT2 platinum with its scope, route-finding, business strategy, and event editor. As buggy as some other parts were, it's amazing that the route-finding worked so well, even on very complex track.

2) Fix bugs (or completely re-program it).

3) Improve scaling (i.e., a train should not fill 75 miles of track on a continental map). Perhaps each map should "know" how many miles each square really is. Above a certain scale, tracks should be able to share a square with a building.

4) Add some features to relieve tedium in large companies (e.g. Replace many engines at once)

5) I think the graphics are good enough, but I also know that I'm not "most people".

6) In a couple of my maps, I've created events that enable a player to influence track-building costs by delivering iron wood etc. Such dynamics could be worked into the "advanced economic model" of a new game to goad players into serving industries rather than just carrying mail and pax.

7) In track building, give players some control over how much terrain modification they can pay for (and possibly reduce mountain-moving costs with announced inventions like TNT, steam-shovels, and modern earth-moving eq).

8) Make the AI players a little more sane (ok, a *lot* more sane). It would be dirt-simple to improve some decisions like what size station to build.

9) Let me see and adjust a train's waypoints on the main (zoomed in) display so I can get them exactly right even in a track tangle.

All my ideas might not add up to profit. However, if enough history were added, then a business-sim-not-a-toy could be marketed to parents as edutainment.

[CrownVic95]

My forth try this time using all 3 AI RRs.    The AIs must have a special price on track.  I built as far as I could with out bridges or tunnels. The AIs built almost twice  as far with many bridges but no tunnels.  3 years into the game and I was still in the hole.

 

I started to catch up.  At about 17 years I was about even.  At about 30 years I went over 6 million.  The closest AI had all most 3 milion and the other two just over one million.  I had stated an eight car gold train.  It had major problems.

 

I had started a stock take over of the richest AI.   the 8 car train that was full of gold, wouldn't go to the correct station.  It came to one of my Y tracks that was under an AI bridge and it jumped off of the track and flew back to another lead to my Y track going back to the station it just came from.  Tried to reroute the train, change cities, even shortened the route and finally got it on track and out from under that bridge.

 

It finally reached the correct station and the gold disappeared putting me 1/2 million in the hole.  How who took the 6 million in gold bars from me.  Maybe it fell out ehrn it was under the bridge. 

 

Went back to a saved game and looked for that 6 million.  I never could get my RR in the the black again got fired in 1899.  Still owned 80% of the stock of the best AI.  No one owned any of my stock. Not even me. 

I called the police ; but they must have been paid off and sent me packing.  

 

Watched  a Game on E-bay.  Every locomotive had its own track to run on.  It is a way to win but no fun.

:D Sorry that didn't work out for you.

 

Yeah, just about everything to do with track is a weakness, if not a nightmare in Railroads!. A while back I resigned myself to having to play at the "easy" level because at the higher levels it never took long for a train to get stuck permanently with nothing (within reason) you could do about it. Also drives me nuts that you can't specify a track for a new locomotive to start on when you've multiple tracked. It invariably starts on one already occupied by another train unless that train happens to be at the start station when you buy it.

 

I'm intrigued by some of Railroads! features, but run out of patience quickly with others. There's nothing like RRTII.

[Gwizz]

I would like to see the eye candy of Railroads put into the RRT2 game engine.

 

 

Does the signals work.   Trains seem to get stuck at a signal with another train also stuck at a distance and also at a signal.

I had one of my trains wait at a signal under a bridge while the train of a AI RR crossed over a bridge above my loco.

 

There seems to be a problem with rerouted trains making 180 degree turns between stations after being rerouted when not in a station.  

[Gwizz]

Well heck, testing Sids Railroads was a pain without a cheat code to speed up testing.

 

I concure:  RRt2@ is a much better game.

 

Sids Railroads has a lot of problems that doesn't stir my Irenic.

I went back to a saved game too many times and only reached the programed end of game once.

 

The signal system was a failure, although the trains did seem to know when a train was coming, but

seldem picked the right empty track to turn on to.   The resulting jam-up with the only control a re-routing of trains.

I never figured out how to know what direction the loco was headed after rerouting it.  Although I didn't spend much time on this.

The loco did seem to travel the old route without revenue cars before switching to the new route.  

 

Track laying was a challenge I did enjoy but my method was different then the AI RR used.  I used open track sidings with both ends attached to the main line with few exceptions.  Four tracks at major stations and a two track main line. didn't make a major try at using less signals.  But with correct spacing they seemed to control the trains better. 

 

Only once was I able to merge an AI RR.  On my last try I built up 2.5 million in cash in an effort to drive up the price of stock.

Dumb luck when all AI RRs bought back a few shares of stock.  I went back a couple of game saves. No luck.  I think merging has a trigger amount that tells the AI that I'm about ready to merge an AI.  

 

As with a lot of the triggers for Railroads, they do add more challenge, almost too much.  

 

Being able to watch when a train is about to reach a station was a plus for RRT2.  This is generally missing in Railroads. 

 

It is too bad that so many errors or unfinished events tend to reduce what could have been a great game. 

It is simular to RRT3 in this respect. 

 

            Chow

[CrownVic95]

Well heck, testing Sids Railroads was a pain without a cheat code to speed up testing.

 

I concure:  RRt2@ is a much better game.

 

Sids Railroads has a lot of problems that doesn't stir my Irenic.

I went back to a saved game too many times and only reached the programed end of game once.

 

The signal system was a failure, although the trains did seem to know when a train was coming, but

seldem picked the right empty track to turn on to.   The resulting jam-up with the only control a re-routing of trains.

I never figured out how to know what direction the loco was headed after rerouting it.  Although I didn't spend much time on this.

The loco did seem to travel the old route without revenue cars before switching to the new route.  

 

Track laying was a challenge I did enjoy but my method was different then the AI RR used.  I used open track sidings with both ends attached to the main line with few exceptions.  Four tracks at major stations and a two track main line. didn't make a major try at using less signals.  But with correct spacing they seemed to control the trains better. 

 

Only once was I able to merge an AI RR.  On my last try I built up 2.5 million in cash in an effort to drive up the price of stock.

Dumb luck when all AI RRs bought back a few shares of stock.  I went back a couple of game saves. No luck.  I think merging has a trigger amount that tells the AI that I'm about ready to merge an AI.  

 

As with a lot of the triggers for Railroads, they do add more challenge, almost too much.  

 

Being able to watch when a train is about to reach a station was a plus for RRT2.  This is generally missing in Railroads. 

 

It is too bad that so many errors or unfinished events tend to reduce what could have been a great game. 

It is simular to RRT3 in this respect. 

 

            Chow

My view is that for Railroads!, the devil is in the details....the issues with track and train routing and such. The fact that you can't choose your start location.....that sort of thing. In other words, the small things. Conceptually it is sound - and similar to RRTII. It could be repaired, tweaked....and be great!

 

RT3, on the other hand, is conceptually flawed. At least for anyone who wants to run a railroad operationally. Perhaps its appeal is to the financial manipulators....the folks who want the railroad to run itself, like it does in RT3, while they play Gordon Gekko. I have no such interest whatsoever - either in real life or in games - so RT3 for me was almost dead on arrival. I remember how excited I was when I first installed it. And how quickly I lost all interest. I was and still am today baffled when I hear the game's defenders.

 

So with RT3, I see nothing to salvage beyond its 3D engine and maybe the train consist manager. But an even better solution than that for RRTII's erratic mail/passenger supply would be to simply fix it. Railroads! has no such problem and got many others things right as well.

[Gwizz]

After a rest period, I picked saved game number #8 for another try at completeing it with a gold star.

 

Well !'m up to 1932 with18 years to go.  Have about 26 million in net-worth.  The remaining 2 AIs has 6 and one 7 million.  I now have18 trains, Have merged one AI and own all but one share in the 2nd AI and own 50% in the last AI.  I have 4 goals to complete.   I'm now beating the AI to its cargo, mostly gold $50 and goods $32 and other high price cargo such as food and wine each $24; and grapes,livestock and oil each $20 a carload.

 

I Left the mail and passengers and most of the corn to the AIs to keep them alive.  Dug no tunnels and built few bridges.

 

Early in the game I owned one bottomless gold mine  which I was unable to draw down below 8 loads using 5 locos on two tracks.

The AI RRs never seem to have many locos.  The one I merged had two locos.  The AIs don't have old locos and up-date with every new loco. 

 

I have added more city sidings now 7 at two stations.  I have found less congestion with about 50% of the trains taking the correct sidings. Have yet to understand what method works best with this problem.  I guess that is like tossing a coin. 

 

Dobra outra.  from Russian;     Hiogazoma  from Japan. 

 

Meaning:  may the great god in the fermament bless you or something like that.

[CrownVic95]

After a rest period, I picked saved game number #8 for another try at completeing it with a gold star.

 

Well !'m up to 1932 with18 years to go.  Have about 26 million in net-worth.  The remaining 2 AIs has 6 and one 7 million.  I now have18 trains, Have merged one AI and own all but one share in the 2nd AI and own 50% in the last AI.  I have 4 goals to complete.   I'm now beating the AI to its cargo, mostly gold $50 and goods $32 and other high price cargo such as food and wine each $24; and grapes,livestock and oil each $20 a carload.

 

I Left the mail and passengers and most of the corn to the AIs to keep them alive.  Dug no tunnels and built few bridges.

 

Early in the game I owned one bottomless gold mine  which I was unable to draw down below 8 loads using 5 locos on two tracks.

The AI RRs never seem to have many locos.  The one I merged had two locos.  The AIs don't have old locos and up-date with every new loco. 

 

I have added more city sidings now 7 at two stations.  I have found less congestion with about 50% of the trains taking the correct sidings. Have yet to understand what method works best with this problem.  I guess that is like tossing a coin. 

 

Dobra outra.  from Russian;     Hiogazoma  from Japan. 

 

Meaning:  may the great god in the fermament bless you or something like that.

Are you still running the Southwest scenario?

 

I hadn't played that one for years, so thought it might be fun to try one again this morning. I have 3 gold mines feeding a smelter in Tehachapi and bought out my one AI competitor in 1871. I liquidated his track jungle and now it's one to connect Las Vegas, Flagstaff, and Phoenix.

 

I'm running separate feeder tracks from each raw material source and so far that seems to keep things running well.

[Gwizz]

Yes, SW Map.  I fogot about the 3 city connection by 1899.   Darn.

 

My net worth is just under 40 million.  Merged the second AI. The last #2 AI sold one share held by the 3rd AI before I merged #2.

 

MY problem now is that last stock was worth several million and with money the 3rd AI ran track through 3 of my protected cities.

 have two years to merge the last AI.  He has 5 locomotives and is sell the 6th share I need to merge him for $8 million.

 

I scraped the RR #2 AI had lost to me.   Saved some track to use on my RR and connected it to my track.

The scrapping was worth just over one million. My cash is just under a million. Merge cost is 8 Million.  It doesn't look good

 

Plans for the last 2 years:

 

I have 25 locos about 2/3  are new, Pacifics, Northerns, GG1 electic. etc.  I have a lot of gold on about 10 trains.

I will pick out those that are close to a demand station and deliver.

I'll scrap any train not making money to reduce expenses and scrap track I don't need. 

 

I may not exceed.  But This is just a test to better under stand the game.  I also need a power plant.  How do I do that?

 

 

Thinking back about the RRT2 game engine.  I was told they had to go to a better game engine for RRT3.

The RRT2 engine was not strong enough to be a more involved RR game engine. 

I don't remember who reprogramed a game engine (for the Sids Railroads game) from what ever it was before.  

I don't believe either was a RR program. I might be wrong on that. 

 

Duwa           I think that is French???

[CrownVic95]

Yes, SW Map.  I fogot about the 3 city connection by 1899.   Darn.

 

My net worth is just under 40 million.  Merged the second AI. The last #2 AI sold one share held by the 3rd AI before I merged #2.

 

MY problem now is that last stock was worth several million and with money the 3rd AI ran track through 3 of my protected cities.

 have two years to merge the last AI.  He has 5 locomotives and is sell the 6th share I need to merge him for $8 million.

 

I scraped the RR #2 AI had lost to me.   Saved some track to use on my RR and connected it to my track.

The scrapping was worth just over one million. My cash is just under a million. Merge cost is 8 Million.  It doesn't look good

 

Plans for the last 2 years:

 

I have 25 locos about 2/3  are new, Pacifics, Northerns, GG1 electic. etc.  I have a lot of gold on about 10 trains.

I will pick out those that are close to a demand station and deliver.

I'll scrap any train not making money to reduce expenses and scrap track I don't need. 

 

I may not exceed.  But This is just a test to better under stand the game.  I also need a power plant.  How do I do that?

 

 

Thinking back about the RRT2 game engine.  I was told they had to go to a better game engine for RRT3.

The RRT2 engine was not strong enough to be a more involved RR game engine. 

I don't remember who reprogramed a game engine (for the Sids Railroads game) from what ever it was before.  

I don't believe either was a RR program. I might be wrong on that. 

 

Duwa           I think that is French???

I went back to my game at 1871 and proceeded east to connect to Vegas, then built the power plant there. To do that, you just go to the terminal tab for that city  - where you see it's industries and click on an empty lot. Then you click on the industry you want to build. I think the power plant was $500,000.

 

Then I connected Flagstaff and Phoenix, had all objectives met, and retired as a Congressman in 1877.

 

A real easy scenario played as a Mogul. Next time I'll have to go up a peg or two in difficulty.

[Gwizz]

Thanks    I took a quick look and missed that.

 

 

I was thinking how is it I'm worth almost 40 million and I can't raise 8 million for the merge.

 

I forgot I own all of my stock.  That is where most of my net worth is located.

 

Thinking about stocks:

 

A takeover only requires a 51% ownership in real life.   The money manager must be taking his 9% cut.       

[CrownVic95]

Thanks    I took a quick look and missed that.

 

 

I was thinking how is it I'm worth almost 40 million and I can't raise 8 million for the merge.

 

I forgot I own all of my stock.  That is where most of my net worth is located.

 

Thinking about stocks:

 

A takeover only requires a 51% ownership in real life.   The money manager must be taking his 9% cut.       

So this morning I started out early at the next higher tycoon level on the SW map. I had momentarily forgotten that it was only good fortune that had started me in LA the first time - when it was so easy.

 

First start put me in Bishop, second in Yuma, third in Bullhead City....with the AI in LA, San Diego, or Phoenix. Didn't have a chance.

 

So once again my patience is exhausted with a game of great potential, but glaring gaffs.

 

As time goes on, the gem that is RRTII only becomes clearer.

[Gwizz]

I washed out as well.  With two years left I was able to raise 7.8 million.  I needed 8.8 million to merge that last AI.

 

I went back to a 1920 saved map but the saved game kept crashing after opening.

 

Since I was having a slow start up.  So i put the computer into an all night scan. 

 

The scan found 4 problems, all back doors. Two were Micro-Soft doors, one in my network and one unknown.  I'm guessing NSA.

 

This morning I closed the doors.  The computer now loads in 11 seconds.  But, the game still crashes after I load a map. 

 

I'm on a 7 machine after making it compatible.  THe game was desiged to run on XP.  So I may have to start over.  Time for a brake.  

 

Hodge podge    Meaning:  A heterogeneous mixture.  ( I'd say this is true about this game, it is about half done, with parts missing ) 

 

The more I play the game the more I like what it could be if finished.

[CrownVic95]

I washed out as well.  With two years left I was able to raise 7.8 million.  I needed 8.8 million to merge that last AI.

 

I went back to a 1920 saved map but the saved game kept crashing after opening.

 

Since I was having a slow start up.  So i put the computer into an all night scan. 

 

The scan found 4 problems, all back doors. Two were Micro-Soft doors, one in my network and one unknown.  I'm guessing NSA.

 

This morning I closed the doors.  The computer now loads in 11 seconds.  But, the game still crashes after I load a map. 

 

I'm on a 7 machine after making it compatible.  THe game was desiged to run on XP.  So I may have to start over.  Time for a brake.  

 

Hodge podge    Meaning:  A heterogeneous mixture.  ( I'd say this is true about this game, it is about half done, with parts missing ) 

 

The more I play the game the more I like what it could be if finished.

My feeling exactly.

 

I like it well enough that I had to try again later in the day....and this time got a San Diego start. This one is much tougher at the Tycoon level and I don't have the gold as close as I had in the other game. Later this afternoon I'll get back into it and see what I can do. I think I played about 15 years and the AI is still ahead of me in $$. I don't like being the frowning face on the competition screen, but I like that feature.

 

I double tracked the line between San Diego and LA 'cause it was too much for one train. Added the second train and - sure enough - started on the same track as the first one.   Oh, well....what'r ya gonna do? Good thing I'm playing easy routing, so they'll run over each other.

[Gwizz]

Most of my free time wAS WORKING ON THE CRASH TO DESKTOP PROBLEM.

 

It looks like the game is using about 20% of my free memory.  But it spikes to 100% now and then.  

 

The program I ran last night added about 3 GB of usable memory.  Same problem.  

 

When I save a map I save two since sometimes just loading a map can crash the game.

 

I added an USB thumb drive.  It has almost 40 free gaga bites and I set it up to add to the free memory.  It seems too have helped. 

 

I played about 20 years today without a crash.   I also used the task manager to run the game and the compatiblity program together. 

 

when I shut down Railroads,  It closed but the compatibilty program hung up.   Tomorrow I will check the sticks to see if one is not seated well enough.

 

I discovered a method to make extra cash.  (BY ACCIDENT).  I load aN EIGHT CAR train with high priced cargo. Set it for a long route. 

Let the locomotive leave the station with a car or two, then paused and routed it to return to the station it just left.  Unpaused and THE LOCOMOTICE JUMPED TO THE REAR OF THE TRAIN AND I collected over $ 300,000.

 

THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE MANY PROBLEMS LIKE THAT.  WITH TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF SOURSE CODES I DOUBT THEY CAN BE COMBINED TO MAKE A BETTER GAME. 

[MaglevForever]

I see you guys are getting into playing Railroads!. Are you using the 1.1 patch? This enables the Robber Baron level as well as some other changes that may or may not help with the crashing. I tended to rely on the autosave while playing as it seems to be designed around frequent crashes, with 4 or 5 saves only minutes apart. Generally I can restart from a crash this way. If it is a crash where I am trying to do something such as build track, I will try to play on without doing that thing. It's a good idea to pause before laying track especially near other track's bridges or tunnels.

 

When you buy a second train on a run, make sure that the existing train is using its station slot on that side of the line. Most of the time this should make the second train appear in the right location. But as the game is buggy, strange things do happen regularly. Once you get used to the interface the game is easier than RTII so you shouldn't have a problem with winning the first few scenarios. On Robber Baron some of the scenarios where you get 50 years to takeover all companies are the hardest in the standard game. Too many mistakes and you wont make it especially on the Mesa and Island hopping ones which I remember as being difficult. Some of the user made scenarios available are even harder. Find them at http://smrsimple.com. It seems the latest map has no bridge crossings allowed which is interesting. Good luck with your plays!

[Gwizz]

Thanks Meglev.  I'm running 64.  That my problem I guess.  I do save a lot and it does help.  Running the USB for extra memory has helped a lot as well.

[CrownVic95]

Thanks Meglev.  I'm running 64.  That my problem I guess.  I do save a lot and it does help.  Running the USB for extra memory has helped a lot as well.

I'm convinced that almost all "advances" in software for the last 10-15 years have been solely for the purpose of controlling and manipulating the consumer with ever more intrusive and voluminous advertising. Generally, measured by benefit to the consumer, software versions from the late 90s are better than anything produced today or recently.

 

I run XP with 512MB of memory and never have a problem with the game. And I only went with XP, less than 2 years ago, because Windows 2000 Professional support had almost completely dried up and it became difficult to do many things online. Dried up arbitrarily, of course, as a manipulative measure. W2K was better than XP.

[CrownVic95]

Well, I went back to my tycoon level game yesterday afternoon and had all victory conditions met  quickly - by about 1880, I think. All that was left was the buyout of the other RR. Over the next 20 years, the AI expanded to having stations in all of my cities, making a ludicrous mess of a track jungle that made it very difficult to even find my station, under all the bridgework. A major challenge to identify even what track was mine. From that point, I felt helpless to do much of anything beyond replacing my old engines and adjusting consist.

 

Bottom line is that he was gaining wealth faster than I and bought me out in about 1930. My hunch is that if I concentrate on buying more stock early in the game next time, I'll have a better chance. But buying more stock means expanding less, so I could be wrong. Some maps are luckier than others and that right there may be the biggest factor.

 

Anyway, a good game with potential to be great.

 

Oh, almost forgot. Even though I was "acquired", I still ended up President of the United States with my highest score to date. Scary to think what that other guy as President might do. :D

[MaglevForever]

After this discussion I decided to play a game or two of Railroads!. I downloaded one of the user-made maps, New York Central and Erie. It was a great challenge to get through the initial part of the game on Robber Baron difficulty. But after I had re-discovered the strategies to make decent money, 30 or so years into the map there weren't any new cities to connect to. The goals require hauling a lot of stuff all over the map now making it a challenge of logistics. The business part was great fun, but now I lost interest in simply building a spaghetti network to haul everything around and then watch that mess to make sure that train routes don't snarl together. Maybe I will finish it sometime, but the routing issues are the No. 1 gremlin with this game for me.

 

The AI buying you out is a good feature. Watch out when they start saving cash and all the shares in your company are owned. The more of your company you own the longer it will be before he can save enough to buy you out. He needs to save enough to pay double the cost of any shares in your company that he doesn't own. There is no time limit on play, the longer you play and richer you get the higher the score "achievement" you receive. I also read over on that forum that it is possible to start in a different city than the game randomly assigns you, but at a cost as you lose your starting terminal. The trick is to select your terminal and then use the keyboard's "delete" key.

[CrownVic95]

After this discussion I decided to play a game or two of Railroads!. I downloaded one of the user-made maps, New York Central and Erie. It was a great challenge to get through the initial part of the game on Robber Baron difficulty. But after I had re-discovered the strategies to make decent money, 30 or so years into the map there weren't any new cities to connect to. The goals require hauling a lot of stuff all over the map now making it a challenge of logistics. The business part was great fun, but now I lost interest in simply building a spaghetti network to haul everything around and then watch that mess to make sure that train routes don't snarl together. Maybe I will finish it sometime, but the routing issues are the No. 1 gremlin with this game for me.

 

The AI buying you out is a good feature. Watch out when they start saving cash and all the shares in your company are owned. The more of your company you own the longer it will be before he can save enough to buy you out. He needs to save enough to pay double the cost of any shares in your company that he doesn't own. There is no time limit on play, the longer you play and richer you get the higher the score "achievement" you receive. I also read over on that forum that it is possible to start in a different city than the game randomly assigns you, but at a cost as you lose your starting terminal. The trick is to select your terminal and then use the keyboard's "delete" key.

Just tried that. Clicked on and highlighted the terminal and..........the delete key does nothing.

[MaglevForever]

Sorry to give wrong info there.   Because I had a custom map loaded, I couldn't load the originals to test it.

 

Found some better info, and tested it. It seems that you can never have NO track on the map, so you must build some more first that must start at one of the ends of your starting track. Also, you actually need to select the track by your starting terminal and then delete that. As long as you have another section of track on the map this will work. The guys over there talked about this trick, but didn't reveal the exact way they are using it. Maybe so that they had an edge in multiplayer matches? I am yet to see the use of this trick.

 

Here's an idea to start somewhere else on the map relying on the fact that most track building costs get refunded to you when you delete track. You need to lay rail across the map with as little extra cost for leveling as possible. Uproot the track behind you and you can get a long way before you burn through 200k. There is no real point to bulldozing your original terminal unless you feel that this is the only way to prevent this from seeming like a cheat. 

 

Also, engine costs are refunded completely if they are brand new, some people use this trick to buy extra trains to force trains onto the right track of a multiple track station/siding. And then simply keep the one they want and retire (get money back) on the rest. (Nobody's pretending that realism is this game's strong point.)

[Viconius]

I made a bunch of RRT3 maps but didn't care much for playing them. 

 

Now the old RRT2 is fun to play at least for me.  

I like micro-managing.   I've never played multi-player with any game. 

 

In Sid's railroads,   There is a lot that I like In Sid's Railroads.  I like the graphics, How laying the track and tunnels are done . 

With care you can  create cuts and fills.  But the basic control of game play is missing. 

  It is so hard to manage and track trains and cargo. 

 

Like in RRT3,  the creative in-charge gang got in the way of making a good game for both RRT3 and for SId's Railroads. 

The Time given was too short with deadlines that caused a lot of the details under development to be dumped or not even started.

 

I think Sid's Railroads would be easier to code and to fine tune.   

 

And important part would be to allow input and player customization.  (Open code and compartmentalizing  for specific parts of the game)

A player should be allowed to turn on or off parts of the game that didn't interest the player.  Maybe have indexed buttons.   

For example'  have a button for the stock market, that I would click Yes on, while others would click No.

 

Maybe a list of what was done well and is worth keeping; and for what ever the reason, what was poorly done, deserves a look see.

 

Yeah, I have a very serious interest in these details and would like to "know" what clicked and didn't in the community. There is no definitive list that I know of and haven't look around a whole lot in the last 8 years or so. I'm pretty confident that the graphics can be improved enough to collect interested gamers created during and after the 90's. I also think the gameplay in RT2 was "better" than 3 or Railroads! That is a relative "better" not absolute.

 

Making the game more player extendable is what I would definitely be interested in seeing. Over time a game that was as much a tool set as just a game seems like a real bargain for the community. I see community as a real driver behind games like this succeeding or dying. It's not what the "Short Attention Span Theater" types want... they need Bejeweled and other reptile brain tickler games. I don't dismiss this group, only irritated to see the developers forced to primarily serve that group. However gaming is so much bigger than the business people acknowledge. As if acknowledging other gaming would impact their bottom line. I know it's often just shortsightedness or willful ignorance, but it's frustrating to hear how that controls the industry.

 

Gwizz, didn't you write something up about this long ago? Ow my brain!

 

I'm a new game freak too CrownVic. It's like exploration or something primal for me. Once I have achieved what appears to be the most efficient network and profitability, I'm done.  I think that's why I like 2 the most, but the open world of 3 is alluring.

[Viconius]

CrownVic95, I tend to go from playing one to playing the other. RTII is best for my favorite style of play where every decision you make matters on well-crafted maps. Unfortunately, there aren't that many maps that are difficult enough to challenge my skills in this way. I do tend to get bored with RTII when I get on large maps where game-play when going for large CBV or PNW goals tends to be generic late-game as it often becomes a matter of hauling as many passengers as far as possible on as straight a route as possible. On the other hand, RT3 continues to be fun later in a game with better mass-management tools. I completely understand if you don't like the RT3 economy, it is a finicky-thing to manage properly. The way of counting loads hauled in RT3 is definitely broken too. I went into those details because I don't have an idea of how the consist manager (or open-style 3D world) is going to work without the RT3 economy or causing other problems with a simpler economy, so posted my ideas on that system. But perhaps there is a way as I am not the most creative thinker. For a potential new game I am happy to drop the RT3 style economy even if the 3D world must go with it. Like Gwizz said, developing something using a game engine and graphics more similar to Railroads! would be the best option. People talk about extra details in development that weren't carried out. Anyone care to enlighten us as to what those were or tell us where we could find them? Gwizz?

 

I haven't revisited the Railroads! custom maps lately, so maybe they ended up making some progress. I know they can add new cargoes and change pricing pretty easily. Those would be good features in a new game.

Dropping the 3D world isn't a restriction on the economy. Scale on the other hand tends to be a demon. I think finding a good scale is going to be an early key. The thing that I really hated visually in Railroads! was how my consist could look like it was in 2 cities at one time. Just kicked my butt out of my suspension of disbelief. I did like the overall look better than 2 or 3 as well. This is totally doable though. I'm still struggling with the feature list. I want to be able to defend every choice.

[Viconius]

So, what would a system that was able to pull in resources to a city based on it's size and the resource proximity? If the game system encouraged more city investing/services like you saw up until the 1950's. Encourage the city to grow, it will gather more things without more stations. Dedicated stations would still be required for some things, but not all due to proximity and cost.

 

I'm thinking that this would mitigate some of the open world issues with resources and at the same time provide a focus for players to invest in cities as another new or better scenario goal.

 

Should station upgrades be IN the open 3d world or tucked inside of a "station" diorama? My joy meter says outside, but the peanut butter in me says it's going to be messy visually.