Euthanasie, or overpoppulation madness

[X3M]

A hard topic. And opinions vary a lot.

Some are against it.

Others say, it should be possible.

And some think you should suffer tremendously till the end, if you have indeed a very painful deadly decease.

 

This subject goes with Politics, Religion and Philosophy.

Politics decide if it is allowed. And in what circumstances.

Religion almost always says, NO!

Philosophy? why yes...now for the following video:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSEXmhldXQE

 

Really, when I saw this, I thought. Wow, what is this world going to?

 

If someone comes up with this idea, and is seriously telling the world. A death ride...FUN!!!... What can we say about that?

Can anyone explain to me, what to think about this? Anyone?

 

( I understand if this topic hits the bin right after posting)

[Davidu]

I know there's countries around the world where euthanasia is legal. In some countries is all automated so the "client" is the one pushing the button so no one can be accused later of murder.

 

Personally I'd grant suffering people with terminal illnesses this. If there is no escape and the future only holds a tremendous amount of suffering before death I think it's the patients' right to choose. Mostly it's abut terminal cancer cases. Otherwise is problematic.

 

Also euthanasia does not resolve overpopulation. Not by a long shot. Population control would do this, but that would mean infringement of some of the most basic human rights. And that is another topic. China makes it harder for poor people to have more than 1 child while giving (some) opportunity for rich (or just well-off) people to have more than one. Technically this would help with equality, population growth and quality of life/education, etc. Unfortunately this is all crap in China anyway, and countries where education and law are upheld do not need population control because the society there has auto-adjusted its growth (see Scandinavian countries, Western Europe, etc.). The main problems are in developing countries where the mentality is still 3rd world while the services are getting better and better. There you have a very high birth rate characteristic to people that need a high replacement rate due to high mortality, child/infant mortality, wars, disease, etc. while most of these death causes have been eradicated. This thus creates an unsustainable population boom that will need to migrate (or start new wars or die of famine). It takes a few generations for such societies to "calm down" and have a more lower birth rate.

 

So your 2 topics are quite different: euthanasia refers to people with terminal illnesses being granted the right to end their pain by death, while the overpopulation issue is more about the 2nd and 3rd world countries expanding at incredible rates.

[X3M]

Well, overpopulation because...

I see it returning repeatedly when I read about euthanasia.

Here are 2 articles.

 

Article 1: Euthanasia: Killing The Innocent, Helpless And Useless!

Copyright 1997, Dr. Don Boys

This man seems very religious.

Is against euthanasia.

Blames the government, for wanting to reduce the number of people.

Gives extreme examples.

 

Article 2: Overpopulated of Olderpopulated? A Consideration of Some Suprising New Demographic Trends

28-11-2011, By: Msgr. Charles Pope

Way less religious article.

Euthanasia is only mentioned somewhere in the end. As if western people simply choose to suicide for reducing the overpopulation problem.

This article seems to be from Washington. And mentions bits and pieces of other regions in the world.

The examples, sometimes go towards the extreme. But in my opinion, feel "realistic" too.

[Davidu]

The western world has less to fear from overpopulation as most countries are on a a negative demographic trend. So not much need to reduce the numbers by euthanasia. Also "killing off" the old wouldn't work because in the west people tend to work towards and older age (and pay tax & stuff), so no need to exterminate useless members of society.

 

I'll read the two articles tomorrow and edit this post to provide a more complete answer :)

[MrFlibble]

Well, overpopulation because...

I see it returning repeatedly when I read about euthanasia.

Here are 2 articles.

What's your own opinion on the issue? The way you formulated the topic title suggests that you somehow connect the two questions, which are in fact, as Davidu pointed out, quite different (unless you want the discussion to go down the Godwin's Law lane that is).

In some countries is all automated so the "client" is the one pushing the button so no one can be accused later of murder.

Well, this certainly turns into the question of morality of suicide.

[X3M]

Well, we can treat the 2 subjects separately.

No need to go down that lane.

 

I guess it got connected in the first place, based on several myth's.

 

Blame Disney for the fact that I still connect the 2.

Remember the lemming documentary?

Mass suicide in order to sustain the species. For having enough food for the remaining lemmings.

Of course it starts by one lemming suggesting this to the other one. Hey, let's kill ourselves. The other one jumps. Many more follow. After all, it starts getting accepted, just like euthanasia?

Obvious a myth. Those jumping lemmings that is.

 

But another source would be a star trek episode. (Another one than the one in that article). Where a planet is found with people that kill themselves once turned 50. Only to make room for others. Based on that same myth? Or an actually thought by the maker of that episode.

 

But who thought of the lemming myth? Again a human. It seems that the idea has always been around And that, once we are with to many, we need to kill some of our own kind. And "oh gosh uhuhuh" which targets are the best?

---

Let's separate the subjects then.

Or better yet, remove the over population in the title. But keep the madness.

The posted video is related to this.

[Davidu]

You might be interested in this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senicide and a lot of the subsequent links.

[X3M]

Wow, didn't know they even had a word for it.

And it goes back ages too if I have to believe the wiki page.

[Davidu]

There was a legend that the Great Wall of China was build using also old people. They say in those times everyone over 60 was executed, but with the Emperor needing so much workforce people had a choice of being executed or work until their death for the wall. I have found no such info on the internet.

 

I think it is possible to convince an individual or a small (or big) group of people to sacrifice themselves for what is perceived as a common good. But an institutionalized killing system aimed at innocent people I think it's out of the question. For Europe at least. We'll see how Asia will deal with overpopulation. First it will have population control as in China. I think Uzbekistan is having such a population boom that women are forcefully sterilized. I will have to check that up though. Then it will be executions of prisoners and probably only in exceptional cases where everything else has failed they'll start killing off old people, but for a culture that worships ancestors and commends a great deal of respect for the old that is very unlikely to happen.

[Falconius]

Overpopulation is a massive problem in my country. And our government is doing everything in their power to make it worse. My father is a school inspector and he told me of a case where he saw 4 pregnant school girls in the same class. When he asked about it he found out that they were pregnant by a 26 year old schoolboy in their class. The "boy" had an agreement with them to get part of their child care money, that is so generously sponsored by the taxpayer. Our current leadership on the highest level hardly sets a good example. Our president has three official wives and 35 illegitimate children (that we know of). The fact that he became president after facing rape and corruption charges doesn't help either. To date Zuma has more than 800 charges of fraud and corruption that has been swept under the carpet by our National Prosecuting Agency. Since our police have stopped keeping statistics I'm not sure how verifiable this is, but I've heard it said that a woman gets raped every 2 minutes somewhere in our country.

Our police are rather famous for their contribution to population control though.

Unfortunately it has become quite easy for criminals to join the police force and get a gun.

Our president sometimes say the funniest things, if you can manage to hear his monotonous voice through all the boo-ing. During one of his speeches in parliament he remarked that people don't understand democracy, that in a democracy the man with more children has more rights. After he said this someone in parliament shouted:"Mr. president, YOU don't understand democracy!".

The horrible fact is that Mr. Zuma is perfectly correct.