Wellsville Addison and Galeton 2

[MaglevForever]

Finally, managed to get gold on this scenario. Playing on Expert (-25% revenue), this was a real challenge for me. It took many attempts.

I could not find any discussion of this map anywhere, so decided to post a topic on it. I would love to hear from anyone who has played this map.

For anyone who hasn't tried this map, it is available in the downloads section. Please note that the requirements to win subtract any company debt, including bonds, so watch out! I am playing with RTII Platinum 1.56. If you play with Jeffry's mod, the arrival of the DB 18 202 makes the game easy.

[jeffryfisher]

The DB 18 202 actually helps a scenario? Even as fast as it is, it's so darned expensive to buy and operate that I'd expect it to be a money-losing trap. I don't know this one; what's the sit?

 

BTW, My mod introduces the DB 18 202 at the point in time when it was actually built and tested. Granted, there was only ever the one experimental loco, but that was also true of the 4-6-2 "Mallard" (a custom-built Pacific with zero hill-climbing potential) that burned out while setting its speed record. If the scenario is weakened by that revelation, then we should edit it.

[Silverback]

The DB 18 202 actually helps a scenario? Even as fast as it is, it's so darned expensive to buy and operate that I'd expect it to be a money-losing trap. I don't know this one; what's the sit?

 

BTW, My mod introduces the DB 18 202 at the point in time when it was actually built and tested. Granted, there was only ever the one experimental loco, but that was also true of the 4-6-2 "Mallard" (a custom-built Pacific with zero hill-climbing potential) that burned out while setting its speed record. If the scenario is weakened by that revelation, then we should edit it.

No there were several Gresley A4 Pacifics built of which Mallard was one  - see  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Class_A4 and http://www.lner.info/locos/A/a4.shtml

and there are still 6 in existence including Mallard. The middle big end overheated during the record run (A weakness of the loco when pushed hard probably because of the Gresley conjugated valve gear).  They lasted in mainline service for around 60 years and would also run uphill at speed in passenger service which is what they were designed for.

[MaglevForever]

Yes, it does Jeffry. When you start with the map, your company has 6 consolidation locos. Pulling 50 ton carriages in 1956 is a bit hard for them, so the scenario creator made a one-time event to boost them. +50% speed, -50% maintenance, -50% fuel costs. He made an event to remove the T1 so the player couldn't buy any new steam engines. Let me say that with these settings and another -40% fuel costs Herbet Garratt gives when he is your manager, those DB 18 202s become quite a good thing. On the other hand, your change to the intro date on the GP18 is a disadvantage to this scenario, that's why, though I love your changes, I recommend playing this with the original settings.

There is a lot of history around this map. I have huge respect for whoever made this map. They made an accurate historical scenario and then doubled up by making it almost as hard to win in the game as it was in real life. I feel like I am trying to keep the rails running while playing. Obviously, taxes and regulation are not integrated, but the competition is there and the economy will shrink while you play. I have had well-serviced 4 house towns become three house hamlets on this map.

Grades also become a big factor on this map. The pre-laid rail you are given is twisty and hilly. My style of play is to haul full or almost full trains, that is one reason I am so curious to learn whether others have managed to win on this map and, if so, how many cars did they average?

[outofmage]

Hi, Meglev, glad to meet you here again. I just played this map today, but I found it pretty easy. 

The brief is not quit accurate, it says the gold requires 1,500K profits. In fact, the real deal is company cash-company debt > 1,500K. So 1.5 million net cash should be it.

 

This means we can retire all the consolidation, since the book value drop won't affect the net cash at all, I bought 3 GP9 for the passenger service from Wellsville to Galeton and Galeton to Addison (obviously, it's the company's name :)) and ignore everything else, because we need cash, not profit, and these revenue streams are enough. 

I strongly suggest that you should buy all the restaurants and hotels in these three stations, even by issueing bonds, Roy White will be the perfect manager. 

 

Although some AI do use my track and I get about 20% of my total revenue from computers, I may have benefited from the +25% computer revenue modifier, but I won gold in 1967, with about half of the time left, so I won't bother to replay it under -25% and -25% revenue modifier.

[MaglevForever]

outofmage, I am glad you found the map easy. Hope you enjoyed playing it.

Thanks for clearing up what the win event actually is. It seemed strange to me that the brief would require 1,500K lifetime profit. In the company "book" your company starts with a fairly decent negative lifetime "profit".

When I played, I kept the Consolidations, and relied on freight instead. For me, Wellsville and Addison were major competition zones with the AI. They would take away most of the passengers and mail. But, obviously, you managed to get around this. Well done.

Curious how many cars you ran to handle the mountains?

BTW: good going on US History to overflow the integers and end with 23 billion personal cash!

[outofmage]

Maglev, I surely enjoyed playing this map. I always take a peek at gold events in Editor before I play, because I don't want to be misled by requirement description, even PopTop themselves made a mistake in the gold and silver event of Elbow Room - the 14th campaign map of TSC.

 

I don't know why the map creator use Consolidations, did the real company still use those engines that late? In the game, it's just too slow, and will eat your profits by wasting your demand levels and engine maintenance. 

 

The AI always follow the what-is-left-what-to-halt rule. So we just need to wait in the stations of Wellsville and Addison for passengers. Since the waiting-for-cargo trains don't need to load, as soon as the passenger cargo appears, it's yours, the computer will halt others. I use GP9, they are relatively good to handle all those hills, so I arrange 4-6 cars all the time.

 

In US history map, I may have cheated a little bit. Because I usually buy on margin heavily in the early fast development years, I got caught in the 1845 stock market crash, and went bankrupt. I have to restart the game, in the new game, I just invested at large instead of opening a company in the first 9 years. After the crash, I managed to merge everyone at a very cheap price, investors were so panic and agreed to merged into my only "normal" company. A good start will have Exponential effect after 100 years.

[MaglevForever]

Yes. The company had six E-60 Consolidations to begin with. They were built in 1907 and 1908. The company purchased diesels but they were too light for the job, so steam was still used in the first two years. You can read more about it on Wikipedia or on some other railroad fan sites.

In the game there is an event that reduces steam maintenance and fuel cost by 50% and increases steam engine speed by 50%. It is possible to run them profitably with two cars especially on the Galeton to Wellsville run. But they don't provide enough profit to offset track maintenance, at least on the settings I was playing.

The US History map is like a couple of games in one, if you want it to be. The first challenge is to build up your towns. I might start a thread on how town growth works, mainly to ask what others have found. I don't understand it very well, but my theory is that profitable industries might make fast growth. Also to make lots of money while doing so. Interest revenue is one of the only ways to keep ahead of the taxes. This is designed into the scenario. At the end most of your income has come from interest. I agree the start is really critical in all scenarios.

I think a delayed start is just strategy. After all, the slow speeds of the early locos make it hard to make a big profit in the first year or two of operation.

Did you merge the Canadian and Southern railroads also?

[outofmage]

Meglev, thank you for your replies.

That's interesting, early steam engines actually have more power than the mid 20th century diesel engines. Does the game over power the diesel engines' climbing capability or under estimate Consolidation? Even with 50% speed boost of Consolidations, they still can't compete with any of the diesel engines.

 

Do you actually worry about the city growth in US history? I think that's mainly determined by economy growth rate defined in the Editor. Making industry more profitable may result in more industry appear in this city, but I don't think it will boost the growth of population of this city. In my game, I rarely ship any freight except a few wood and steel. 99% of my revenue comes from passengers and mail, but cities still grew up pretty well.

 

Yes, I merged everyone, because the cash hold by the companies alone was actually more than the market capital of them, crazy!

[jeffryfisher]

IMO, The F9 diesel was grossly overpowered (to the point of breaking the game) before my mod. I wonder if the game design assumed that they worked in teams of four when climbing mountains. If so, then why not treat other diesels similarly?

 

Nurturing cities may not be necessary, but nurturing villages into towns is, especially on unbalanced maps. US History is such a map (many huge metros toward the NE, but not so many out west (and if the scenario scripting enabled city-size control, then the West Coast metros wouldn't blossom until WWII or later).

 

BTW, The ability for one crew to operate several diesels was one of the advantages over steam engines that needed a full crew for each. The game doesn't let us put multiple engines on trains, much less arrange head changes for climbs, so diesel's advantages are buried in an abstract reduced maintenance cost.

 

If I was thinking clearly when writing the open-source wish-list, then I remembered to mention head changes for hill-climbing as a nice-to-have new feature.

[MaglevForever]

outofmage, the Consolidation we have in the game is a small early one. The name denotes the wheel pattern, in this case 2-8-0. By 1900 they were making larger more powerful engines with the same wheel pattern, so guess what they were still called "Consolidations". Many compromises have been made with engine performance in the game. The inability to have long trains and also double-heading as Jeffry mentioned, take away a lot of realism. In my opinion, Electric is too good. Diesel should at least be worthwhile to run on low value freight runs. The extra cost of fuel outweighs the cost of electric track over 10-15 years. I am also never happy with Diesels hill-climbing. Oftentimes hill-climbing is a more important consideration for me than outright speed. I admit there are a few good hill-climbers, but none are available early enough to delay my forays into electrics.

Yes, I have just posted in the US History forum, and if you read there you might understand why it matters to my strategy.

The reason I asked about merging, is the AI companies that start with access rights in the South and Canada (and Mexico, though I have never seen one) are actually valuable. As long as you own 51% or more, they will grow towns and industries for you long before you can access those areas.

The best time to merge is in the middle of a crash. After many, many of years of 1-3% return on capital, share price will be at rock bottom. Sometimes it is possible to merge at 20-30% of book value!

Jeffry, I noticed now that some cities have much larger boundaries than others. I am making sure I connect the whole city now. Would not this control maximum size to some degree. For instance, Chicago is so large that you cannot cover it with a Large Station.

[jeffryfisher]

Each level of town has a different footprint (and may be squeezed by other towns' footprints). The Chicago you mention is a Megalopolis, the biggest.

[maddog]

Wow! I haven't been here in a VERY long time. Much to my surprise, someone really liked WAG2. Thanks for playing my map, MaglevForever! :)

--Ray.

[MaglevForever]

Hello, there. I stop by every now and then these days. Lately I have been playing some Railroad Corporation. Your post brings back some nice memories. To honor this I will play this again soon. You may see me grumble about some of the game's failures especially that corners act like a +2% grade. This breaks train classification of Express-Mixed-Freight. Also the ideal track layouts end up being a bunch of straight lines, this is quite stale, there is not much room for innovation. Thankfully with pre-built track, this map is largely immune.

 

On 5/31/2013 at 8:37 AM, outofmage said:

The brief is not quit accurate, it says the gold requires 1,500K profits. In fact, the real deal is company cash-company debt > 1,500K. So 1.5 million net cash should be it.

Any comment on this?

[maddog]

14 hours ago, MaglevForever said:

Any comment on this?

If you're not in the red you're in the black? I wasn't a business major so to me that would be the definition of "profits".

--Ray.

[MaglevForever]

The game makes some simplifications. The term "profits" is used for revenue less operating expenses, before investment on any new infrastructure/upgrades.

The way you described profits here doesn't quite match the game's usage. We figured it out, but specifying no debt and $1.5M cash, would be clearer.

 

I was always playing this without dozing any track. So maybe I'm not playing "as intended".

 

I gave it a couple runs over the weekend. My strategy relies on some industry profits, I connect to Allentown with 5 Oil Wells, then buy them and the Oil Refinery. If you are lucky there might be a convenient accessible Electric Plant. Otherwise, leaving a big stack of Diesel in Wellsville is advantageous because the AI will haul that away rather than the precious passengers and mail that I want to run to Galeton. One of the good things about this map is that the AI on +25% revenue are good competition for most express cargoes.

 

I leave the Consolidations on secondary duties for awhile, but those routes are low profit, and as the engines age maintenance costs make them unprofitable. By about year 10 it's better to retire most of them from longer runs.  I also like to build a new large station in Westfield that covers Sabinsville houses as well to get an 8 house coverage for a "true city" demand behavior.

 

It was just as fun as I remembered. One of my favorite challenges in this game.  😄  Here's a screenshot from one of my plays: