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For what it's worth, I appreciate it as well. I've long given up trying to educate Eras or explain anything to him. Sometimes I yet try out of habit or instinct, but when I realize what I'm doing I stop. I think if we had reacted this way with him in the beginning, he wouldn't have built up the psychic momentum that keeps his absolutely batshit messiah-complex going (footnote for Flibble, read below). Clearly it's too late for that now, but this really is the next best thing. So, thanks.

And I really don't care if you make fun of me or not for the sockpuppet allegations... I still stand by them, and I think Dragoon mentioned some way of tracking them that wasn't as involved as stalking Eras (which I'm not asking you to do, by the way--that's illegal). Still, you're the mod, and it's up to you whether you want to investigate something or not. I can't make you. And if I can't convince you that something is worth following up on, then that's that. For what it's worth, though, I can think of at least a half dozen still-active users (which, by the way, is a lot these days) who believed and continue to believe that Denis and Curt were sockpuppets. I mean, notice how well their activity correlates with Eras', for example? It's that that makes me think that your "b-b-b-b-but!" was a little premature: I don't think they'll keep posting because I think that if Eras is moody because of a temp-ban and stays away then they'll stay away, too... because they're the same person. (Just like how all three of them happened to be away from Internet access for July 4th weekend... coincidence? Maybe. Puppeting? Maybe more. Though, to be fair, if Denis and Curt come out hard while Eras is temp-banned pushing the whole God-hates-gays agenda, that won't convince anyone that they aren't puppets).

Flibble: my only question is why you didn't react as badly to Eras then (when he first revealed to us that he was a bigoted ignoramus who only cared about forcing people to accept his twisted interpretation of religion) as you reacted to Dante just now. Maybe you weren't active or didn't notice, and if that's the case, then that's fair, but I really feel like your righteous indignation might have been better spent elsewhere and elsewhen.

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Well, take care everyone. I only joined because my friend asked me too. And now he's gone, or been banned permanently. I think that in a way it's a good thing that EO has been set free from this place. He can stop crying, worrying, getting mad, at the goings on, here at the Dune 2000 debating forum. My only hope is that he doesn't go back to the place where they'll always accept anyone who agrees with them, at Brian Herbert and K Anderson's place. ha ha

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I take it the maddened Bible quote was too much for you, too? Not that there's anything wrong with the Bible... but that there's everything wrong with using it like a garage tool. I have to clarify that now, you know? In the old days, that comment could stand for itself. But after the Erasera... let me be frank. Eras was simply too stupid to participate in a discussion. Read carefully: any discussion. And I'm not trying to insult him or kick him while he's down (well, not too much, at any rate). He actually failed to understand effectively every distinction that came up in conversation. Take the above example. I didn't like someone's use of a Bible quote? Then I must hate the Bible. Scratch that, I must hate God. Eras thought not only in absolutes, he thought only in absolutes-by-assumption. This is nuts. This is how totalitarian dictatorships get voted into office. It would never have occurred to him to think that my comment was limited to the context in which I made it: that I could disapprove only of one person's particular use of a quote (not necessarily from the Bible), and in doing so make no other implications or insinuations. It was impossible for him: I know this because when we tried to explain these distinctions, in painfully basic terms, he denied them. Everything was re-scaled to fit his worldview, without exception, and without appeal. I think that mentality is not only infuriating, but also dangerous when it's played out on a larger scale. I would have been more comfortable with a three-month ban, and maybe a probationary period, but when I look back on the events of the last year, I think you made the right decision.

Finally, as far as Americans are concerned, I think a post-mortem of Eras is actually a good conversation topic given that for the first time since 1910, as many as 12% of Americans are born outside of the United States. I think just as demographic trends are shifting to a younger, more diverse population--as was the case at the turn of the 20th century--paranoid insecurities like the kind voiced by Eras are on the rise again (the Klan's height was right around 1910, remember). I really do think he represented classic extremism, albeit "benign," and I hope that in the information age one can only assume such extremist positions if they are very stupid (in other words, too stupid to cause any trouble).

Curt, if you are a real person, stick around. You're bound to be smarter than Eras, and who knows? You might actually contribute and you might actually learn something. Believe me, Eras was probably wrong about everything he ever said, including and especially our open-mindedness. I mean, take this invitiation as an example: I still think you're a sockpuppet, but I value the tiny possibility that you're an independent mind enough to make this gesture. Seriously. We're only assholes if you're an asshole to us, first.

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It wasn't the bible quote, it was something else that went too far (not multiple accounts).

In the future maybe discuss it and have a laugh, but for now quite serious.

And yes if the other two accounts associated with eras start speaking for eras or anything similar, they won't last long.

Maybe I can enjoy my summer visiting fed2k now.

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Hmm... Does this belong in here or PRP Issues? Either way, I was reading some 1-star reviews of Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World on Amazon, and I thought that the reasoning of most of the comments closely resembled that of eras and Ath. Anti-intellectualism is one thing, but claiming to be an intellectual "for the masses" is just sad.

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It's sad, but also terrifying. What options are left to you when people seek to control your behavior and you cannot reason with them? (Though, I suppose they would say the same about us... I don't want to get into the depths of a meaningless discussion on relativism, but I know there's a difference and we're on the right of it). I'm hoping this "movement" or whatever it is stays comfortably on the fringes of acceptable thought.

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