Great Lakes map problem

[Rikki]

I had a good time playing around with this map this week, but could not win even the bronze -- even though I connected Chicago and Philly way before the deadline.  I did get the news headline acknowledging the linkup, though.  Any ideas why the game will not award me the win?

Incidentally, has anyone gotten gold on this map?  Seems ridiculously hard, like not even humanly possible.  Even silver seems insane.  Or maybe I just have a lot to learn.  :'(

Rikki

[Gwizz]

That map is by DarthVada.

I don't remember the map having a problem.  Might just be hard.

[Rikki]

Yes, silver and gold are hard, but bronze is relatively easy.  You just have to connect Chicago to Philly.  I've done that every time, but still no bronze for my efforts.  I finally gave up on that scenario.  :-\

Rikki

[Gwizz]

Open the map in the editor.

Look in events for the win events.

see what the triggers says.  Its on the top.

If it says a variable#x will = y  you might have to 1st look for the events that set the variable#x to Y to see if they could test true and set the variable #.

Therefore,

Can the win event test true; If you completed what the goal asked for?

Check the dates to see if they match, etc

If you think the trigger should test true,

Then look at the effects and see what it says the event will do.

Sometimes it is easy to see a mistake or not.  :-\

[JSS]

Rikki, have not played the game but from what I have seen in the events, you will NOT be told something like

[Rikki]

JSS,

Yes, that is what I'm saying.  At the end of 25 years the status page (and the newspaper headline earlier) verifies that I have connected Chicago and Philly but I am still not awarded the bronze.  I keep getting the hobo video.  :(

Rikki

[Redband]

First I must point out that I am no expert in this and, hopefully, one of the more knowledgeable people here will correct me if I am wrong but here goes:-

This problem may be caused by a combination of things.

1. the Event 'SP-Lose' is much higher in the list of Events than the Medal Events and is (I think) checked before the others.

2.'SP-Lose' is set as 'years elapsed since game start>25' (check at beginning of year) and the Bronze/Silver Events are set as 'years elapsed since game start>=25' (check at end of year). This, combined with the point noted above, may mean that it will always give you a lose result.

A possible solution is to move the 'SP-Lose' Event to below the 'Win-Bronze' Event. After doing this exit the Control Panel and save the game. I suggest re-naming the save as 'Great Lakes 1' so that you still have the original in case this does not solve the problem.

An alternative is to change the 'SP-Lose' Event to >26 to ensure that the Bronze/Silver Events have a chance to take effect before the Lose (remember to save the changes under different names until you are sure you have a map that works correctly).

[Gwizz]

(greater than) >25 years, would fire the event in 26 years.

(greater than or equal to) >=25 years would fire event in 25 years.

So, in the case you noted, the lose event should fire last.

I Guess I should down load the map and take a look.

Something must not be right.  Could just be a bug.

[JSS]

Well, I have taken a look at the map last night. The events seem to be ok. I have made a new map with just those two events to make sure that there was no issue with the triggers themselves. Using one company the events seem to work fine. :O

What I still need to check is how an event behaves that checks all companies for a company connection between two points. This check, overall, does not make sense because it basically would test if the connection, if there, belongs to any railroad. Since all track has to belong to someone

[Rikki]

Hmmm, maybe that's the "problem."  I think the AI owned the station in either Philly or Chicago in all the games I played.  Does this scenario define a connection as being owned 100% by the player?  If so, that would explain my hobo status.  :-\

On the other hand, the brief doesn't state full ownership is a requirement, and there are still those encouraging messages/news headlines saying I have made a successful connection.

A sidenote... I haven't even touched Shift-E since I bought the game, I like not seeing the matrix as it were.  But I'll be curious to hear what you script doctors figure out.

Rikki

[Gwizz]

JSS,

I seem to remember that someone stated that a multi trigger event would sometimes trigger as true if the first part of the trigger fired true even though a following part triggered false.  Seems it happened where testing was against both AI and the players company.  I don't remember the exact details now.  It shouldn't be necessary to x both to test against AI and players company.

I believe city/territory Connections will use any companies railline as part of a connection test.

[JSS]

Well Gwizz, Rikki provided the clue when he said that he did not own the stations.

The issue was not with the Bronze win or lose events but is the event that indicates the connection as being made.

According to the Bronze win event both stations for the Chicago-Philadelphia connection have to belong to your company.  In the Chicago/Philadelphia event any connection by any company will be ok.

Therefore, if at the end of the game you do not own those two stations it will not reward you with a Bronze win even though your status page will indicate the connection.

I would assume that the intent was for you to provide the connection and therefore the Chicago-Philadelphia event should be changed to the same connection trigger as the Bronze win has. That should correct the issue.

[Rikki]

Thanks JSS, you explained it in a way that even I could understand.  Sort of.  :)

Now that I know what the deal is I will try playing the scenario again knowing I have to take over the AI companies that own those stations.  Not an easy task, as they jump on Philly and Chicago very quickly and are very profitable all through the game.  But at least it's a challenge that I think is within my capability.  Silver and gold are for deities far beyond my skill level.  :-\

If anyone HAS won gold I'd love to hear how they went about it.  Are there any after action reports on games I can look up somewhere?

Rikki

[JSS]

Rikki, what it looks like is that the connection question is asked for in two events but is asked in two different ways. The one asks

[Gwizz]

If you still have a saved game close to the ending date, I would place small stations on the AI track and see if the bronze win fires.

JSS, are you getting hit by this storm or are we just the lucky ones.

[JSS]

Gwizz, 110mm (~4") of rain forecast. The usual fields are already flooded and it is far from over.

Our biggest issue is (we live about 30m (90ft) up the hill therefore it will take a major tsunami to reach us) that the dog does not even want to go outside anymore without an umbrella to keep him dry.

No complaints however since it will give the area a good soaking. Summers have been a bit dry over the last few years and the winters have not been much better.

If we come floating by, wave at us please.

[Gwizz]

About 6 inches+ (~165mm) here today. This record storm started Friday.  I had to drop the gates to the pond.  The creek is still not as high as in the past. It could be because the lake has some new automatic gates to control the outflow and inflow. But then again, the storm is not over yet.  It would have been nice if this pineapple express had made snow at the higher elevations instead of water.  I heard tomorow the freezing level will drop about 6,000 feet and then it should make snow for the next 5 or 6 days and less rain for me.

Kathy is baby sitting some of our grand kids at their house.  So It will be only me that may come floating your way.  Throw me a line if I do.  :)

[Rikki]

Yes, odd about the way those questions are being asked.  But thanks for looking into this.  I'll see if I can track down the designer and see what the deal is.

Oh, and I appreciate your tip about placing token stations.  However, doing that just to keep the AI companies away seems a bit too gamey for my taste. I enjoy the realism of the game so I'll try to win the bronze the old fashioned way, if I can.  :)

On the other hand if I DO take over both companies and still don't get the bronze I may resort to Gwizz's trick of getting the bronze to fire.  :)

Rikki

[JSS]

Ok Gwizz, just how bad was the rain you might ask. Well it was so bad I had to take the canoe out and paddle, with the dog, over to Mt. Baker so he could take a leak without his paws being immersed in water.

Actually, we here in town got off easy with getting less than forecast. However, surrounding areas were not that lucky and have been experiencing quite a bit flood damage. The worst is over now

[Rikki]

Interesting point, JSS, and thanks for the history lesson.  I guess it comes down to deciding whether a tactic is historically accurate or if it is cheating the game as it was designed to be played.  I'll probably take a swipe at it using the boy scout approach first.  I can always become more corrupt later if I don't get my way.  :)

Rikki