Questions about Tleilaxu tradition

[MrFlibble]

I'm interested in the sayings the Tleilaxu use in their rituals: "The magic of our God is our only bridge" and "The sun is not God". Were they invented by FH, or do they have any roots in real religious discourse of Islam or Zen? Same for the phrase "Rot at the core spreads outward", which Master Waff uses to test an Honored Matre, and lately the BGs use it to make contact with the Tleilaxu.

[SandChigger]

Have you googled the ones you're interested in?

There's that "Islamic influences in Dune" page out there as well; did you check it?

(I'll see what I can dig up later.)

[MrFlibble]

Googling shouldn't replace good old conversations IMO. Besides, for "The magic of our God is our only bridge" it only brings up two quotes from the last two books, and for "The sun is not God" a lot of irrelevant information. And "Rot at the core spreads outward" seems to be strongly associated with Democrats for some reason :) The Islamic influence page only comments most of the Arabic terms, provided we're talking about the same thing here.

[SandChigger]

Searching the Skeptic's Annotated Qur'an turns up nothing. (The word "bridge" doesn't even appear to appear in it. I guess that makes sense, in the desert. ;) )

Failing to find anything makes it seem more likely that maybe FH came up with them himself. The concept of a deity certainly is not a part of Zen as we know it today, although it could very well be a part of a hybrid Zen-Sufi belief system.

[MrFlibble]

Perhaps the image of a bridge comes from Zen? This allegory of moving from one side of a river to another has been used in Buddhism since its beginning, if I remember correctly.

[SandChigger]

That's quite true. I'm still leaning towards FH as the creator, though. ;)

[MrFlibble]

Most probably. A part of the Zensunni-Sufi ecumenist tradition could be nothing less, after all :)

[MrFlibble]

Okay, I'm shamelessly re-posting from Jacurutu, but perhaps it's worth it, right, Dunenewt? ???

Basically, the bridge as a religious symbol (image) is directly mentioned in Dune, where it comes directly from the Islamic tradition:

SIRAT: the passage in the O.C. Bible that describes human life as a journey across a narrow bridge (the Sirat) with "Paradise on my right. Hell on my left, and the Angel of Death behind."

Wikipedia article about the Sirat Bridge:

As-Sirāt (Arabic: الصراط‎), also called Sirat al-Jahim (English: The Bridge of Hell) is, in Islam, the hair-narrow bridge, which according to Muslim belief every person must pass on the Day of Judgement to enter Paradise. It is said that it is as thin as a hair and as sharp as a sword. Below this path are the fires of Hell, which burn the sinners to make them fall. People who performed acts of goodness in their lives are transported across the path in speeds according to their deeds leading them to the Hauzu'l-Kausar (the lake of abundance).

Interestingly enough, there is an analogous concept in Zoroastrianism, where it is called the Chinvat Bridge:

The Chinvat Bridge (Avestan Cinvat

[Dunenewt]

Okay, I'm shamelessly re-posting from Jacurutu, but perhaps it's worth it, right, Dunenewt? ???

What's that a reference to?

[MrFlibble]

To the urge to get more posts. Have you found anything particularly interesting in this one? I'm kinda curious about the Worm myth in Zoroastrianism, and whether it had any influence on GEoD.

[arnoldo]

Okay, I'm shamelessly re-posting from Jacurutu, but perhaps it's worth it, right, Dunenewt? ???

Basically, the bridge as a religious symbol (image) is directly mentioned in Dune, where it comes directly from the Islamic tradition:Wikipedia article about the Sirat Bridge:Interestingly enough, there is an analogous concept in Zoroastrianism, where it is called the Chinvat Bridge:I wonder which of them emerged first though...

The following quote is attributed to Jesus, "This world is a bridge. Pass over it; but do not build your dwelling there."  The phrase is also allegedly inscribed in a mosque in India.

[SandChigger]

Not terribly relevant, eh, seeing how the Muslim tradition & sources are referring to the afterlife/Day of Judgement while the "attributed" Jew-on-Wood quote refers to <b>a way of living</b>.

A medieval author, Petrus Alphonsi, preserves a saying much like saying 42 [of the Gospel of Thomas] in his Clerical Instruction: