Canadian Election October 14, 2008

[Andrew]

Harper called an election today, even ignoring his own law for fixed dates for elections which should have it October 2009 (every four years). Some say it is illegal, but there was a part in the law for minority governments to be able to be toppled. But what he did was unfavourable (against what he said he wanted).

Most people knew an election would occur this fall. The conservative government has spent $8.8-billion since June 2008 in "election" spending (other sources have it at $15 billion). Basically buying votes.

This is what I was asking for in the Us president thread, "when do they announce their policies and spending?". The conservatives clearly specifically spent 8.8 billion on numerous projects. The liberals came out with a specific carbon tax plan for their election platform. It comes with actual numbers and stuff. Most will be releasing lots of stuff in the coming weeks.

It sees the conservatives seem determined to win this election, and spending lots of money seems to be what they are doing to get votes. It is possible they will put the federal government into a deficit, which would be the first time in 12 years or so.

Something new about to happen is that the green party will hopefully be included in televised debates. They have been ignored in the past because they did not have enough support (the consortium for broadcasters CBC, CTV, Globemedia). The green party plan on suing if they are not allowed in the debate. I hope they get in. Having 5 different parties debating will be much more enjoyable. Canadian debates are much better than the 2 person debate in America. Sometimes parties will team up on another party (usually the majority party).

I expect liberals to be attacked for green plan. Conservatives attacked on the countless scandals and spending spree. NDP for being unrealistic. Bloc Quebecious attacked to try and steal votes from them. Green Party I dunno, maybe their green policies would destroy the economy, which is what everyone always says.

This is Canadas 3rd election in 4 years, and 5th election in 11 years.

When asked about what the outcome might be, the Conservative leader said, "We believe it is going to be a tough election. We believe it will be a tight election. And, yes, we believe in all likelihood it will be a minority.

WTF? Harper beleives it will be another minority? Then why call an election 1 year before the law states we are to have an election?

Harper promises law to set election date every four years - Friday, May 26, 2006

"Fixed election dates prevent governments from calling snap elections for short-term political advantage," Harper said. "They level the playing field for all parties and the rules are clear for everybody."

There is no way he will win this election. I can't wait to see that quote in attack ads against the conservative party. They really screwed up.

[Tatar Khan]

Well I am not sure for whom to vote. NDP I lost interest after graduating from university. Conservatives got Harper (first economist to be PM,, means he understands the economy better than any lawyer), he also seems to be a good leader. On the other hand Liberals maybe have good ideas (too much environment based ideas) however their leader Stephen Dion just looks like the guy that one can easily bully around, so I don't want him for a leader of the country.

[Andrew]

Green Party not allowed at leaders debate. :(

They let the Reform Party and Bloc Party join the debate as soon as they got a representative.

Stephen Harper thinks Elizabeth May (green party leader) will eventually throw her support for the liberal party. So what if she did? That's her parties choice and each person who gets elected.

Although Liberals are not running a candidate in Mays riding in Nova Scotia. Would be nice to see her elected.

I received a leaflet from a MP today I have never heard of before. It says Dion will get rid of the $1200 a month childcare. Meh, the childcare plan was a failure anyways. It ended up costing parents more money than they received because daycare centers increased their fees $100 a month (probably not including taxes, and also people are taxed for the amount they receive from the government).

The big election signs have been staked out (frame for billboard), with a couple actual being put up.

Harper has cut a lot of funding to the arts. So I doubt he will be getting votes from those types of people.

He'll probably get the military vote.

If the NDP and Green Party get more votes, it will probably be at the expense of the Liberals, so it is possibel for the Conservatives to win more seats.

EDIT:

Green leader allowed into debates, networks confirm

This is going to be the best election EVER.

[Egeides]

EDIT:

Green leader allowed into debates, networks confirm

This is going to be the best election EVER.

Gosh, what kind of bulls*t is that?! It seems like the worst election ever.

It's like a movie you'd go see with popcorn to laugh at the bad acting. It's not just about negative publicity and this silly ad with a bird defecating on the rival, but just overall. I have trouble seeing what good debates you'd still expect if you reconsider with that environment. I personally think that it is all quite derailed.

[Andrew]

Yah, but just wait. She got 4.5% popular vote in the last election. I bet green party will get 8% in this one (but only one or two seats).

Nothing wrong with more choices.

I'm sure everyone will promise lots but deliver nothing.

[Tatar Khan]

First problem is that Green party will vote with Liberals in the Parliament so what is the point of having a separate party. The second problem that besides the environment the green party has no other policies or stands so what is the point of having it at the debates.

[Andrew]

Couldn't the green/NDP/Bloc form a coalition on which depending if Liberal or conservative get minority force one side (the non government one) onto their side?

Similar to what happened in previous minority governments?

Remember Chuck Cadman?

An independent who decided whether to topple the liberal minority government. He choose no because his constituents did not want an election. I don't mind seeing a politician doing what the people in their riding want.

[nemafakei]

"besides the environment the green party has no other policies or stands"

Er, no. You're thinking of the Marijuana party. The GPC do have specific policies: see, for example, http://www.greenparty.ca/en/policy/visiongreen/partfour - there are main parties in many countries that run on less.

However, your main point still stands: the Greens are essentially turning themselves as the environmental lobbyist wing of the Liberal Party - not only by their deal over May's potential seat, but also with respect to their policies. Retaining different party structures means a diversification of funding - the Liberals don't need to spend money on May's riding when green-friendly donors can provide a liberal-friendly green MP for them there.

I suspect that's partly a result of demographics. Working-class Canadians concerned about green issues would most naturally raise it within the NDP, which is fairly green as a result. They couldn't compete for the votes of those in blue and pink collar jobs, but they could appeal to the conscience of students, middle-class Canadians and some working class Canadians in white collar jobs. I suspect they also pick up NDP voters in areas and at times when the local NDP has messed up badly.

Andrew: why the NDP and Bloc can't co-ordinate better together, I have no idea.

[Andrew]

Culture in Danger

Funny 3 min youtube video about the danger of regulating arts and culture (or stephen harpers funding cuts). Make sure to turn on subtitles so you know what they are saying in French.

I've seen Elizabeth May a couple times on The National, and she comes off as a good public speaker.

French debate is Wednesday night. English debate is Thursday October 2.

Sadly the US vice president debate is on at the same time. So now I have to decide whether to watch a good debate (Canada) or a train wreck (Palin).

[Tatar Khan]

French debate is tonight. We will see. I might vote NDP this time because the rep came and promised to deal with my problem that I am having with a builder if he gets elected.

[Andrew]

Watching Canadian leaders debate on tv.

Watching Palin on live internet feed.

American debates still suck compared to Canada.

EDIT:

Canada debate was good.

It seems everyone attacked Harper at every chance.

Elizabeth May was good on the attack because she had nothing to lose and everything to gain. Interrupted a bit too much (but her interruptions provided facts).

Props to Harper for keeping his cool.

[Andrew]

CBC sunday Report has new interview with Julie Couillard about dating Maxime Bernier which will hurt conservatives some. She pretty much said that they lied about everything.

Couillard says that Berneir said that the invasion of Afghanistan is to control the drug trade. (probably true)

Couillard says that Bernier said that Harper is a control freak. (everyone knows that harper is a control freak so nothing new)

Couillard says that Bernier was coached to deny everything about leaked documents.

Good interview. Conservatives tried to make Couillard look like a bad person. Smear campaign to save themselves.

But she is selling a book, so some is most likely embellished to sell the product. It is released tomorrow so expect it to be in the political news.

I have no idea what this political cartoon about Couillard is supposed to mean. Found via google images. I know it is from when Bernier was sworn in...

[Andrew]

Local Liberal MLA whom is up for re-election visited today. I asked about Bill C-61 and whether he would vote for such a thing if it were to come up again.

He basically said no, but that eventually changes would have to be made to copyright laws.

I made sure to ask again about which way he would vote. Said he would be against such law. Although oddly the Liberals introduced Bill C-60, which I informed the MLA of, which somewhat put him on the defence.

Guess I'll wait and see and when the law is introduced again (it will, studio corporations are rich and make campaign contributions in Canada) I will make sure he remembers me and how I interpreted his answer. Sadly both parties have now shown that they will introduce the bill. Thankfully Michael Geist brought the bill to the publics attention and helped sway public opinion against it.

The fear campaign is in full swing. It appears that using the word "Bush" is popular which made sense in the previous election, but Bush is gone in a couple months, so comparing Harper to Bush won't work as much.

Liberal MLA is the only one I have seen visit.

Here's to hoping for another minority government. Nothing gets done, but it is more difficult for them to screw up.

EDIT:

Conservative Candidate was in the area today. I missed her by probably 15-20 minutes. :(

[Andrew]

Harper Government said Afghanistan would cost $8 billion.

A report was released today saying it will cost $14-18 billion

Canada's mission in Afghanistan could cost up to $18.1B

I bet it will take 5 min for new attack ads to appear on TV.

EDIT:

Wow, Stephen Harper is coming to PEI the day before the election. Usually everyone ignores Atlantic Canada in the last day of election. Critics say this is because he wants to win seats here as there are some close calls. Break a 20 year Liberal stronghold could send a message to the rest of Canada (or at least Atlantic Canada), at least for the next election.

Yet another big campaign on PEI, even having the provincial liberal president going out and taking down Conservative political signs, because Elections Canada mistakenly told them to.

EDIT:

Flaherty announces measures to stabilize lending industry

Flaherty gave banks $25 billion today.

I thought Harper said that the Canadian economy was in good shape? Then why is the gov giving billions to banks that have no problems?

I also love how the Bank of Canada cut interest rates by 0.5%, but banks only cut interest rates by 0.25%. Screwing the consumer over yet again.

EDIT:

WTF!?

The blackout ban was re-enacted again!?

Guess I don't notice since I'm on the East coast, but it will be impossible to enforce on the internet.

Anyone know of a random website that will be hosting results and giving a big middle finger to elections canada?

[Andrew]

Results are coming in now!

It is illegal for me to post results.

ABC worked perfectly in NFLD.

The real results will be in Ontario and Quebec to show a definitive trend.

EDIT:

And that trend is that the liberals were slaughtered.

Conservative minority, only needing ~13 seats for a majority.

What a waste of taxpayer money and time. Apparently voter turnout is below 60% range which is worst showing in decades.

[Sneakgab]

Does it make little difference which party wins? Or did most feel that the victor was certain and so, regardless of whether they supported the party predicted to win the most or not they did not vote?

If they are not both the case and neither of them are the case then what other reasons could there be for such low voter turn out (in the case of this election specifically, since this seems to be an unusually low turn out for Canada, though it would be an unusually high turnout for many countries).

[Andrew]

I have no idea why such low voter turnout.

I would think with 3-5 parties to choose from in most ridings and a minority government, there would be something for someone to vote for (or against).

I think the main reason is people simply don't care for politics and never vote (I'm always astonished to talk to these people who don't bother). Or if they are in a riding where it is certain that a certain party will win, they don't bother voting. One person I know was a student in a different province and did not have proper ID from that area and thus felt that voting would be a hassle filling out election forms to register (they could have mailed in the vote for home riding early, but still work to do). Voting rules changed making it harder to vote.

It was the worst voter turnout in Canadian history. Although still at 59.1% which is not far off other elections.

It does make a difference in which party wins, because each party has different platforms and plans on what to do. They each give specific information about what they will do (such as exact tax decreases for each income bracket and other benefits), and usually announce spending measures with actual dollar figures attached. With Canada being a "small" country it is easy to announce specifics in what a party will do.

Liberals screwed up with picking a crappy leader (Dion), who was a francophone (French speaker). They picked a francophone leader, yet in Quebec they only picked up 1 out of 51 seats. Having a francophone leader was absolutely pointless since it alienated English voters who found it difficult to understand what he was saying. If they had a anglophone leader it would have helped with everywheres but Quebec (which they lost anyways).

The carbon tax platform was a huge gamble as well. Essentially taxing polluters and offsetting that tax with decreased income taxes.

The NDP/Greens took away votes from Liberals, thus in areas where Liberals/Conservatives would normally be close in winning, the liberal vote was down, but conservative the same and thus let them win.

6.8% of Canadian voters (940,000 people) voted for Green Party yet none were elected. Yet 10% (1.4 million people) in quebec were able to elect 50 people. It looks like proportional representation is needed.

In the American elections all I heard about in debates was general "decrease taxes/spending", "fix economy (how?)" etc. without a real specific number and how it will be accomplished. I think that is more of a problem with USA being so big that nothing is set in stone because it is near impossible. Remember when the democrats ran on getting out of Iraq in 2006 election? Yet they never bothered getting out. Same for Bush in his presidential debates saying that he will cut spending and taxes and yada yada.

[Tatar Khan]

I voted local something that I never did, I usualy choose the party I like rather than the person in the riding but this time around the liberal Judy Sgro helped me out with the problem I had with my builder so I voted for her (plus she would have won anyways, she got a large muslim community in the riding really supporting her).

The reason I think voter turn out was low was that some people did not like neither party. Since all had parts in policies that not too many liked. Personally I always supported Harper for being economist (the only economist PM I think in Canada, every other one was a lawyer, what do they know about economics?).

I am all for proportional representation specifically to be carried out by converting a Senate into a body that is proportional representative of Canada.

[Andrew]

Flaherty to axe subsidies to political parties in fiscal update

It will be a confidence vote and I hope political parties vote it down and trigger an election.

Sadly Harper knows that liberals have no leader, and thus he will push through legislation that would otherwise not pass. I'm sure he will introduce Bill C-61 (copyright) since he knows no one is willing to call an election.

So a week before the election Harper said the economy was fine and deficits would not occur. Now there will be deficits and he is going to slash political subsidies?

What effect will this have? Expect NDP, Green, and even the Bloc not have any funding compared to liberals and Conservatives. A good way to lead us to a two party system like the US.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservatives, who won the most votes, stand to lose $10 million. However, the taxpayer subsidy represents just 37 per cent of the total amount of money in the Conservative coffers.

By comparison, the subsidy amounts to 63 per cent of the Liberals' revenues, 86 per cent of the Bloc's, 57 per cent of the NDP's and 65 per cent of the Green's.

This is Harpers master plan to get a majority. Kill funding for the opposition.

[Andrew]

Liberals will try to bring down government: report

OMG let this be true. The liberals got balls?

I think failing the government and having a coalition will be great. Once again maybe nothing gets done, but it also means the governemnt will not be able to pass laws screwing Canadians over, and spending irresponsibly. The conservatives are playing hard ball, and I hope the opposition calls their bluff.

EDIT:

Conservatives drop party-funding cuts from key motion

Too late, they showed their true motives. Kick em out of power. Because if you don't and Conservatives gets majority all the other parties will not be able to do anything.

EDIT:

Harper moves to avoid political showdown

Gasp! now there will not be a vote on Monday. He's pushing it back. Does this mean he will work with minority government? Or is he just buying time?

[Andrew]

Apparently question period is awesome. Watching it now live online at cpac.

Supposedly Stephen Dion got a standing ovation and this made the conservatives enraged.

Dion to lead Liberal-NDP coalition, Liberals confirm

A letter was sent to Governor General. If she accepts it, it is possible for coalition minority government. This only happened a couple times in Canadian history, so this is huge news. It will delay/prevent an election.

Harper wouldn't work with other parties, so now the other parties are working together to overthrow the Conservatives.

For low bandwidth cpac video I am using

http://www.cpac.ca/asx/cpac1e.asx

Simply put that link into media->open network-> in VLC. Instead of having to watch it in your browser (so you can browse web and watch/hear cpac).

December 8 could be a historic day. If confidence vote fails, then Governor General will have to approve of coalition government, or an election will be triggered.

[nemafakei]

Flipping finally.

[Andrew]

There's also a scandal with Conservatives taping a phone conversation with NDP Jack Layton (in confidence) and then releasing it.

Tories toss policy, release secret tapes to dodge defeat (Fiscal-Update)

As for the Conservatives, they were not just playing defence on Sunday.

They covertly recorded an NDP conference call in which Layton spoke of plotting with the Bloc Quebecois to bring down the government of Prime Minister Stephen Harper even before the economic update.

After waiting a day, the Prime Minister's Office released the recording and pointed to it as proof of an NDP-Bloc conspiracy hatched long before the government produced its fall financial blueprint.

Tories are playing dirty. Secretly spying on the opposition. Funny thing is when the Conservatives were not in power they wanted to align with the bloq to gain power.

Stephen Harper will not be leader of conservatives in 4 years. This controversy will result in bad news for him.

Harper is now talking about socialism being bad, similar to what Republicans did when bashing Obama.

Coming Soon to Radio Stations Near You (and newspapers, and e-mail etc)

Conservatives have released "talking points" for people to phone in to radio talk shows etc.

EDIT:

The conservative spinners are going crazy. zomg socialist separatist coalition!

Now they may want to prorogue so that confidence vote does not occur until End of January.

Gov. Gen. rushes home to deal with political turmoil

Our governor General is rushing back to Canada from Europe.

Political Crisis!

EDIT:

Green Party are backing coalition government.

So you have 4 parties supporting a coalition government, which make up majority of popular vote and majority of elected MP. Of course the conservative trolls are going around to local media outlets saying this is undemocratic and that this coalition was not elected. Looking at my local newspaper, 95% are conservative trolls posting.

Apparently the Conservatives are not aware that Quebec is part of Canada, and thus the people do not matter because they elected the Bloc.

EDIT:

Conservatives now running election style attack ads.

Unions are running pro coalition government ads.

Thursday December 4 there will be pro coalition rallies across Canada. Saturday, December 6, there will be anti coalition rallies.

EDIT:

Stephen Harper may address Canada on TV tonight. I don't remember the last time something like this happened.

7PM Eastern time Stephen Harper will address nation.

Apparently Coalition will want to speak afterwards to the nation.

Sadly I will miss this :(

EDIT:

Question period is on now. It is AWESOME. They are all freaking out!!

EDIT:

I missed the telecast, but I read the transcripts here

This is going to divide our country.

Harper is fear mongering to the point where Quebec will end up leaving Canada. Harper in his speech broadcast on several tv channels, called the bloc "Separatists". What Harper is doing is insuring that conservatives will never get elected in Quebec again.

Harper is meeting Governor General tomorrow morning. We will know whether suspension of parliament will occur, or the vote on Monday will occur.

[Andrew]

PM finished talking to GG and is about to make a speech.

Parliment is prorogued.

Canada will not have a government in session during a time of economic crisis.

Harper has won. For the next 2 months expect non stop Conservative attack ads. This will cause the coalition to break up and Harper free reign to do as he will.

I've heard the attack ads on the radio yesterday and today.

[Andrew]

So I saw this comic and had to share.

http://abstract-productions.net/crap/shut_down_canada.jpg

A parody of

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll100/CaptainFailcon/SHUTDOWNEVERYTHING.jpg

which is from Pandemic 2 online game.

Dion is resigning as soon as a new leader is picked, which should occur by christmas. Ignatieff is the front runner for a replacement.

EDIT:

turns out dion resigned today as leader