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Ten Commandments Weekend

AeonGrey
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Acriku

Acriku

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While we're on the subject of mixing politics with religion, I would like to take this opportunity to once again tell all my American friends that they should stop treating the "founding fathers" like some kind of mythical religious figures and they should consider the fact that the political opinions of people who lived two hundred years ago are probably irrelevant today.

While I haven't yet paid my respects to my John Adams altar in the closet today( ::)), I do highly respect them and their relevant views on the balance of power towards the State and not the Federal government, and also their opposition to inclusion of church and state. And I do find it perturbing that people throw about quotes of a few of them as if to oppose/support things that are so blatantly against what they wrote about. Ok, enough talk. Time to bow to my life-size picture of St. John Adam.
Edric O

Edric O

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Posted
While I haven't yet paid my respects to my John Adams altar in the closet today( ::)), I do highly respect them and their relevant views on the balance of power towards the State and not the Federal government, and also their opposition to inclusion of church and state. And I do find it perturbing that people throw about quotes of a few of them as if to oppose/support things that are so blatantly against what they wrote about. Ok, enough talk. Time to bow to my life-size picture of St. John Adam.

I wasn't talking about you, Acriku, hence the impersonal "my American friends." You can't deny that many Americans quote John Adams (or Thomas Jefferson, or whoever) as if they were quoting Scripture.

Whatever views of the "founding fathers" are still relevant today - such as separation of church and state - have been taken up by a large number of philosophers and politicians over the past two centuries. They're part of the mainstream now.

But many other views of theirs have been abandoned. For instance, many of them owned slaves. Jefferson thought that the United States should remain neutral in world politics, sort of like Switzerland today. They did not anticipate the two-party system; they did not anticipate the US expanding to the Pacific Ocean; they did not anticipate the invention of modern means of transport and communication that have radically altered the nature of politics and society. Their views on economics were hopelessly naive by our standards. And so on and so forth.

Kokiri-Mentat

Kokiri-Mentat

Posted
Posted

Yes, it's "murder", not "kill", but that's not much more specific. What kind of killing counts as "murder"? You could interpret it in many different ways.

The others are likewise vague - again, you need the whole Bible as context in order to understand them properly. The commandment about idolatry has been interpreted as anything from outlawing the use of any images (including photos and movies) to merely saying that you should not worship false gods. The commandments about keeping the sabbath and honouring your parents are obviously vague, and the commandment against theft raises the issue of what counts as "theft."

Ah, yes I see.  They are more vague w/ out supportive context than I realized. oh well.  :-

But many other views of theirs have been abandoned. For instance, many of them owned slaves. Jefferson thought that the United States should remain neutral in world politics, sort of like Switzerland today. They did not anticipate the two-party system; they did not anticipate the US expanding to the Pacific Ocean; they did not anticipate the invention of modern means of transport and communication that have radically altered the nature of politics and society. Their views on economics were hopelessly naive by our standards. And so on and so forth.

lol. yea I think it's probably the purist constitutionalists whom you will find quoting the "scriptures" of the founding fathers.  Their viewpoint, after all, depends upon the fact that they and (thus what they wrote) were infallible; and you have so conveniently already demonstraded as to how that is no longer the case. :D 

It seems to me that founding fathers quote fanatics who are not constitutionalists probably fall into the category of people who abuse the prestige of the quotie in order to give their argument more "credibility".  Why should they need to quote them otherwise in an economic discussion?

Acriku

Acriku

Posted
Posted

I wasn't talking about you, Acriku, hence the impersonal "my American friends." You can't deny that many Americans quote John Adams (or Thomas Jefferson, or whoever) as if they were quoting Scripture.

Whatever views of the "founding fathers" are still relevant today - such as separation of church and state - have been taken up by a large number of philosophers and politicians over the past two centuries. They're part of the mainstream now.

But many other views of theirs have been abandoned. For instance, many of them owned slaves. Jefferson thought that the United States should remain neutral in world politics, sort of like Switzerland today. They did not anticipate the two-party system; they did not anticipate the US expanding to the Pacific Ocean; they did not anticipate the invention of modern means of transport and communication that have radically altered the nature of politics and society. Their views on economics were hopelessly naive by our standards. And so on and so forth.

My apologies, I misread which American friends you were talking about. And you're right, a large portion of 18th-century politics held by the early founders cannot be brought into today's context. I do however find more merit in laying out how the founders felt on things like separation of church and state than any politician/political theorist today. Call it a debate tactic, but it drives the point home moreso.
Kokiri-Mentat

Kokiri-Mentat

Posted
Posted

  George Carlin with his stand up comedy commentary on the ten commandments.  Fits nicely w/ this thread.

those of you who questioned the practicality/applicability of the 10 commandments in modern society will love this. (and perhaps others will too)

EdricO, his commentary on the murder commandment you might like.  Definitely vague. "it's negotiable....."

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rCz0-HY1TLU

*edit*

Didn't realize I hit over 100 comments. my posts x100 = acriku lol.

Acriku

Acriku

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Posted

That is f-ing hilarious. And appropriate lol. George Carlin always puts it best.

About the post count, just involve yourself with a mega-thread on religion. Your count will fly  ;)

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