"Dangerous/overwhelming knowledge": a reality?

[Egeides]

I have little to say, except some about "dangerous books" and "things to not meddle with". I'll start by personal social experience with its direct and nuanced view of the situation, and then get to the point:

1-

I met someone who was a "basic good guy" with no big intellectual pattern or anything, just someone interested and curious about many different things (but no bookish intellectual at all). We discussed quite a lot about many topics, and he had a distinct life path. I learned a bit later that he practiced magic. Bloody woo-waa-ha or whattever, I don't really know ; it wasn?t all healing magic though?

He was keeping at bay a bit from groups, was a bit taciturn or looked as such to me. He was in simple any-t-shirt-that-fits and jeans (he didn't care much I'd guess), clipper-cut hair, whitish and boney face, could not have been slimmer, and he worked in a psychiatric hospital. "Woa, a living stereotype!" Nope, a very humane normal guy managing his life with his loving girlfriend, his job and all. I never saw him with any Goth or style-stuff on him, no one would notice too much.

So let's see... does the stereotype mean anything, as if magic/whattever had an effect on a person?

Don't ask me if his magic got an effect on him (he believed that one paid back what he got, and seemed worried. He also had a few very unusual stories, which in fact seems usual with such practicioners). But in any case, he was living as many others. But his outlook to the world was different, and so was his own inner world and everything which can be consequent of this. He was no sheep. So instead of a very romanticized stereotypical "necromancian" (that'd be in RPG world), we simply seem to have a normal case of worldview/interests/inner world/etc having an effect on how someone lives his life, how he actually is, how his body reacts, what emanates of him, how he reacts socially... Anyway, it's what it looked like from the exterior. No hocus pocus changing someone because he says or reads these/those words.

2-

Generally speaking:

For example, if I see knowledge as everything, I might end up not seeing the point in dating and organizing everything in relation to knowledge. A minimum of sport, social interaction, emotion-oriented activity, etc. In fact, we could also say this of some computer geeks. Well it most certainly has an effect on those people, should it be their own very specialized language, little practice with exteriorization, overspecialization in many ways and forms.

Now influences can be in terms of ideals, just as the Bible brought its ideals of justice, care for the vulnerable one, betterment. It changed the life of many. Or some could believe the opposite, whattever twisted ideas, or who-care-ism, etc. "You are nothing, only your power counts. Others are not to be considered since it's their fault if they're weak(er)". You get the general point. It influenced people's whole life, books influence.

It is quite understandable that someone could be changed by more specific things within this framework. Many were changed by reading things because it changed their intellectual outlook, thereafter their experience of the world: "a unified/divine view of the world in its perfect beauty", seing everything in terms of betterment, something encompassing everything positive, etc.

3-

Coming back to Hollywood-Halloween-world:

Seeing the world in more irr- or a-rational terms can have different consequences on how someone rules his life, and even Acriku could believe in that ;D

j/k

It might include schizophrenia and whatnot for those playing on their limits. Ok, it might not bring to speak tongues, talk backwards, or vomit alpha soup. But it shows a whole lot of what is attributed at least as a myth to this hogwash.

In books as anywhere, not only nice ideas exist, some can believe in the complete opposite and write a book about it, however false others can believe the arguments to be. As it is for reading any topic, a reader not understanding the whole thing can get stucked in a particular circle and once paradigms are built in his head, he might not see some way out and... that's it the brain (and the rest follows) is off for a ride. Some people, often partly because of their experience background, got stuck in some ideas' paradigms (think post-Holocaust victims, post-Vietnam, etc.). Take this as postulate number one.

Let's push this further now: it is quite into the intellect with its influence up to now. Intellect might change one's perception of the world, thus his experience. But more intense experiences related to ideas can have more serious effects. Drums, dances, incantations and the social aspects were used for this purpose by tribes, as a way to get everyone to see this common thing the tribe perceived as important, and which was oriented towards their own mythos, ideas/orientations. It is a self-justifying reality, mysticism. Take this as postulate number two.

4- Abracadabra?

Religious mysticism aiming at "experiencing perfection" or some kind of total unification with God existed. Prayer has some of its experience, and any experience has its own "feeling". Well while some books aim at being a nice person and so on, some might influence otherwise intellectually. And the same tradition of mysticism exists to reach an ideal state, so one can also try to gain an arguably "ideal" state of "only my power counts, others are nothing, I am the servant of [Google-search for a good deamon]". No big deal some might say: mysticism with another state/being/whattever as a goal. Throw incantations/music/drugs/magic-wand in the middle of this to create an ambiance and ABRACADABRA you got strong experience (postulate 2) oriented towards whattever negative ideals (postulate 1). It might change some people.

5- ?nope, no abracadabra at all

Until now, I needed no magic to show how it could affect someone seriously. I just went from a personal experience and thinking from it, added to background reading about the effect of strong experiences on humans. Alright, I did speak on IRC to some freak who thaught he was a vampire, and another who fantasized about reaching other planes of existence to read in exo-libraries but that doesn't count since, for someone just lurking for debates from other perspectives, it's just normal Internet ;D

Epilogue and personal conclusion up to now:

Everyone has a limit, and those in "post-traumatic syndrome disorder" can tell about that. Maybe that knowing everything of how it is to be in Vietnam/WW2/nihil is not the best, not without also seeing all the rest with the same intensity, acuteness, with a stable reliability measurement and understanding of its inner-working. Everyone has a limit except an absolute being (infinite energy, universal, omniscience, etc.), and it is good to consider it so that we don't get blinded by what is directly in front, hiding the whole thing. One should not let fireworks of atomic destruction should hide the stars, leaving only veiling smoke and decay.

As a final side note, it is actually the first time I put these exact ideas together. Thx to FED2k :)

[Caid Ivik]

That China isn

[Egeides]

Maybe you're right ;)

Well I do believe that living war brings a form of knowledge (becoming a source), and that it can be barely liveable without recovering and reorganizing emotions and information in your head. Being immersed in hogwash can demand adaptation, and understanding of how to recognize what makes sense or not is necessary. Understanding "sophisms" is a base.

[Mihail]

Dangerous knowledge - It exists. I haven't read your entire post, but I think I've got the jist of it.

Well, for me, dangerous knowledge is soething that teaches how to maim, steal,commit a crime or have something in it that messes with the mind(IE: Excorsisms and possesion, it scares the crap out of me)

An example? Take a look at the Anarchists Cookbook. It has info on how to make dynamite & exploding stuff, but the danger is from it not having any detail. For example, about a year ago I made the "fertilizer bomb" that is described in the Cookbook. Good thing a put a long wick in it and ran back like 70 meters. Damn that explosion was big, and left a large smoking crater in my yard. A few hours later, the police came and gave me a 'warning'(Five strikes and you're goin' to juvie!). Anyway, I didn't know that the explosion would be so loud and big, but was happy(After that incident) that I had remembered that Timothy McVeigh used fertilizer bombs in the Oklahoma City bombings. Anyway, in the Cookbook it just said to pour alot of fertilizer into some newspaper that was shaped like a cone, light a match, throw it in, and run. Good thing I used a wick, since if I just threw a match in, one of my arms would be gone and my face would look like melted rubber.

So remember to ALWAYS be cautious with dangerous knowledge.

[TMA_1]

heh, sometimes your posts are more like homework egeides, but they always have some interesting info packed into em. :) 

I believe that there are forms of knowledge that once studied can have irreversable concequences. Obviously I posted about it earlier, and have a few books dealing with certain kinds of knowledge such as this. I have encountered people who practice dark dark stuff, but also those who practice "white" magic. I have noticed that many who practice white magic seem to want to reconcile their beliefs (usually christian) with their magic practices. It seems to always end up terribly, usually with real concequences, usually mental problems or things of that nature.

People dont realize that often people who practice darker magics really dont always know what they are getting into. Some dont even realize what their incantations are really providing. Most of these evil books talked about as I said before are prayers to conjure up demons to do your will. Many times in order to do these things you have to subscribe yourself with blood to certain entities. The sick and twisted thing about this is, as egeides pointed out, is that most of these types are NOT the stereotypical gothic, drab, macabre looking types. Some may be the standard WASPy doctors and Lawyers.

[Kiyouta]

So remember to ALWAYS be cautious with dangerous knowledge.

Or just don't be so stupid in using it.

[Dude_Doc]

I don't really understand. I assume that this "forbidden knowledge" is either a path/way into knowing for example God, or to get power and use it either for good or evil, am I right? But if the "user" already know that God exists, then what is the purpose of that knowledge?