Present-day democracies not quite so democratic?

[gunner154]

Most democracies have a semblance of function - you get to vote the leaders out if they screw things up, which serves as a checks and balance on the leaders. But of course, this is assuming you have a well-informed population.

Alas, the powers of indoctrination!! Who would vote "The Greatest Leader Who Ever Lived" out of the government?

On the point of true democracy having no leaders - if no leaders exist, isn't it Anarchy? Is Communism Anarchy then? Can true democracy function with an ideal, proper, HYPOTHETICALLY-existent leader?

Clearing some doubts, thanks.

[Dude_Doc]

Most democracies have a semblance of function - you get to vote the leaders out if they screw things up, which serves as a checks and balance on the leaders. But of course, this is assuming you have a well-informed population.

Exactly. But how can you unravel that information if our leaders are hiding it from us? Every institution hides its tracks, which isn't so strange since I don't suppose any group would want it's reputation screwed. But that is another factor - information. That is why we have the internet :) ...

On the point of true democracy having no leaders - if no leaders exist, isn't it Anarchy? Is Communism Anarchy then? Can true democracy function with an ideal, proper, HYPOTHETICALLY-existent leader?

It is both communism and anarchism when there are no leaders. The point is that in a communist society, everybody has the same power. No one is more important than another person. We must also know that there is nothing to be gained - for example money. In such a society, people work for each other - and even psychology has proven that humans are better off cooperating than competing and going against each other.

The problem of leaders will never be resolved. It's simple: power corrupts, no matter how good you are. If everybody has that power, then everybody also has the same ability to change society, thus true democracy. We've had leaders for almost every age - and look what happened: wars, corruption, massacres. Animals don't have leaders. Neither does plants and other lifeforms.

[Egeides]

Animals don't have leaders?... And when do animals actually have justice?

As for plants, I don't think they have my ideal lifestyle.

[Caid Ivik]

Perhaps not leaders, but surely dominant individuals...

[gunner154]

If you were to introduce a poll, someone has to initiate it, right? Who does it? Do you have to poll the population if you want start a poll?

Surely someone has to initiate it.

[Dude_Doc]

Animals don't have leaders?... And when do animals actually have justice?

;D well, that was kind of irrelevant, but you have to agree that animals at least don't have leaders who own huge lands and control huge populations.

As for plants, I don't think they have my ideal lifestyle.

Whaat? You don't want to be a vegetable?

If you were to introduce a poll, someone has to initiate it, right? Who does it? Do you have to poll the population if you want start a poll?

Yes, but that doesn't mean we need giant superpowers and greedy corporations. This very forum is a good example - anyone can create a poll, but that person doesn't have to be on the list of the world's 10 most powerful persons. But sure, democracy has it's lenghtly procedures and troubles.

Would I rather have one person, who couldn't possibly be corrupted, knew everything and did everything that was good for the people instead of democracy (in other words, a benelovent dictator)? Yes. But there are no such people. Induviduals simply can not hold that ammount of power without being corrupted. 

Maybe it can be done with some kind of machine (artificial intelligence), but who knows what this machine would think and act like? As far as I can see, the decisions that has to be taken lies with humans, for now.

You must also know that the kind of society I want, a communist one, is not about every single person living in a giant global city. Communism is about communities, and decisions affect the people in that community, and that community only. Why? Because people in New Zealand can't possibly know of every problem the communities in Norway have, and it is Norwegians that knows best of what to do with the situation because they live in it. This doesn't mean that New Zealanders are prohibited to give them advice, or help. Think of it as internet, every computer being a community. The world as a network. 

[Egeides]

I see no difference...

Little groups in high school hinder a few others: are they better than big groups hindering many others? "Humans are bad", "corporations are bad". They are only on a macro level where it is more readily seen by the grandiose effect.

In both case, I get the neighbor mindling in my affairs. I don't think I care much if it is a network of little human groups or a few big ones. Except for "all eggs in one basket" nature of bigger groups, that is.

[unit-akira]

all i see is the line between companies and governments getting blurry, democarcy is an illusion, and capitalism is not democracy!!! god is replaced with profit,wealth,and money...once before religion and government were mixed things didnt quite work and so there was a separation of church and state, which i do believe was techically brought about with some acts of terror and then a few wars and a bit of bloodshed etc etc and here we have the same thing just dressed in different clothes. Freedom ? freedom for who? i feel more like a corpate slave than anything else, my government always does what the companies want, sometimes rarely what the people want, the new god is the dollar bill and you are controlled by it,for if you want liberty you must be able to buy it!!!!  the more money you have the more your civil and human rights are respected