al-Sadr called for a national uprising against American and coalition forces

[Dude_Doc]

I have always wondered... what if the Iraqi people elect someone like al-Sadr? What would the US forces do then? Accuse him of cheating? Manipulating and propaganda? How deep would they go to keep the country?

[Wolf]

Well, I don't think America's goal is to keep the country. America's goal is to create a stable country that is moderate, relatively peaceful, and non-threatening. Al-Sadr is an extremist with a private army. You do the math.

[HasimirFenring]

So you think we would interfere if someone like al-Sader was elected to public office?

[Wolf]

Shouldn't we? While popular, al-Sadr's supporters still number in the minority. If the man somehow got elected, wouldn't it stand to reason that he's done something illegal? That, and wouldn't his policies be such that they would fit the bill of the human rights reasons for war in the first place?

[ordos45]

That, and wouldn't his policies be such that they would fit the bill of the human rights reasons for war in the first place?

To quoteth the Bush "Weapons of Mass Destruction".  Then "To Free the Iraqi People".  Then "Weapons of Mass Destruction".  Anyhow, if the elections were along the lines of how Saddam held them..."Vote me or die" I'm reasonably sure we'd interfere.

[thomas]

we're not invading the shrine, the Iraqi plice are. I guess they are using the US troops as the car and the Iraqi police as the bumber ;D

[Wolf]

I always preferred the phrase "hammer and anvil." Guess who is who.

[HasimirFenring]

Shouldn't we? While popular, al-Sadr's supporters still number in the minority. If the man somehow got elected, wouldn't it stand to reason that he's done something illegal? That, and wouldn't his policies be such that they would fit the bill of the human rights reasons for war in the first place?

For mayor of Najaf?  You don't think he could have a chance of winning?  Campaigning as teh anti-imperialist candidate who stands up to Americans?  The Iraqi democratic process should be out of our hands by now.

[Wolf]

Mayor of Najaf? I was referring to President of Iraq!

[HasimirFenring]

I have always wondered... what if the Iraqi people elect someone like al-Sadr? What would the US forces do then? Accuse him of cheating? Manipulating and propaganda? How deep would they go to keep the country?

I got the impression from this that we were talking about public office in general.

Don't forget that the theocracy was put in place in Iran by a popular uprising.

[Wolf]

Is Iran the model for what we want Iraq to be? From what I understand of the current Iraqi political climate, there are too many diverse groups, no such unifying force, or any other form of leadership that could be considered "popular." If something resembling a popular uprising ever happened in Iraq, I would have to wonder just how popular it really was.

[HasimirFenring]

I only mean to ask whether or not we SHOULD intervene if the Iraqi people elected (in a fair election, observed by independent organizations) a government like the one in Iran.  It may not be what WE want, but if the majority of Iraqis want a theocracy, isn't that their right?

[Wolf]

Well, I sure wouldn't like it, but if it's legitimately proven that popular vote elected a madman... Well, live by the sword, die by the sword. I don't think the US is going to try to help them out of a stink they don't want to get themselves out of -- from what I understand, we acted under the assumption that the Iraqi people hated Saddam. Which more or less turned out to be true. Things would be different if we had to counter-act an election in some second time around with Iraq.

[HasimirFenring]

I heard that lots of Muslims were approaching the temple to act as human shields if it is attacked...  Winning the hearts and minds indeed.

[Dude_Doc]

Well, if anyone hasn't said it before: Iraq is a mess.

[Wolf]

That might be more for love of Islam than love of al-Sadr, though.

[HasimirFenring]

That might be more for love of Islam than love of al-Sadr, though.

Oh I'm sure, it's just that this certainly doesn't speak for our popularity in the country (Ahh!  They're attacking our holiest shrine!).

[Dude_Doc]

I read on CNN.com that they were planning an assault on a mosque... al-Sadr's mosque?

[Andoreion]

I've heard the Iraqi forces are planning on storming it. Don Rummsfeld has anounced that US forces won't be joining the attack, which is probably a really smart move.

[HasimirFenring]

I read on CNN.com that they were planning an assault on a mosque... al-Sadr's mosque?

A particularly important mosque to Shiia Islam, can't remember what it's called.

[ordos45]

The Imam Ali Mosque, so named after a Shiite Martyr as irony would have it.  And CNN is now reporting Al Sadr has agreed to remove his soldiers from the mosque in return for amnesty for himself...my judgement on him still stands, coward.

[Kiyouta]

Maybe they should just bring back Sadam. He seemed to be doing ok until Uncle Sam got trigger happy.

[Khan]

The Kurds and the Shiites would probably diagree with you there.

[HasimirFenring]

Iraq shouldn't be a single nation to begin with.  The only reason it is one is because the British set it up that way following World War I for the convenient extraction of oil.  Kurds in the north, Shiites in the south and Sunnis inbetween: we have three nations in there.

[ordos45]

And after agreeing to come out peacefully yesterday, today fighting erupts again as he proclaims "Martyrdom or Victory"...