The Great Fallacy of Marxism

[Dante]

You wouldn't be talking about anyone specific would you? I suggest you look over the educations systems before making statements like that. And I haven't taken an economics class in my life.  :P

So one hundred years ago gold was worth "$20.70 per ounce, or about $379 in 1995 dollars, while in 1995 the price of gold was $387..." Nevertheless, do you see any gold being created here? Is anyone creating wealth from nothing? No... Because as with matter, energy, and everything else in the world, something cannot be created from nothing. Inlcuding value.

[emprworm]

So one hundred years ago gold was worth "$20.70 per ounce, or about $379 in 1995 dollars, while in 1995 the price of gold was $387..." Nevertheless, do you see any gold being created here? Is anyone creating wealth from nothing? No... Because as with matter, energy, and everything else in the world, something cannot be created from nothing. Inlcuding value.

lol nice try dustscout.

[Dante]

You still haven't created something from nothing...

[GUNWOUNDS]

You still haven't created something from nothing...

introducing tonnes of NEW gold every year into

[Dante]

If unique properties are what makes gold so valuable then every metal would be precious.  :P  Just look at Mercury, the only one that's liquid at room temperature...

And digging up gold is not creating something from nothing it is moving a mass from the ground to somewhere else. Nothing created.

[GUNWOUNDS]

If unique properties are what makes gold so valuable then every metal would be precious.

[Dante]

Alright, wealth can be introduced. But it came from another place, and that place now has less wealth. Marxist theory stands.  ;D 

[GUNWOUNDS]

Alright, wealth can be introduced. But it came from another place, and that place now has less wealth. Marxist theory stands.

[Dante]

You can't deny it.  :D 

[emprworm]

You can't deny it.

[SurlyPIG]

Emprworm, take ten times more than all the gold in the world, go through a time machine and go back to when nomadic hunting tribes were the norm then see how much wealth you really have.

Wealth is not a physical entity, it is an artificial concept.  As I said before, in order to have wealth, you must have a commodity other people value and desire.  The commodity can be obtained, traded, or created, but the value others attach to it and the desire they have to obtain it cannot.

[emprworm]

Emprworm, take ten times more than all the gold in the world, go through a time machine and go back to when nomadic hunting tribes were the norm then see how much wealth you really have.

Wealth is not a physical entity, it is an artificial concept.  As I said before, in order to have wealth, you must have a commodity other people value and desire.  The commodity can be obtained, traded, or created, but the value others attach to it and the desire they have to obtain it cannot.

all i need to do is take one single 20th century artifact back to nomad tribes and I will be extremely wealthy.  Imagine giving Caesar a dish of ice cream.  Cost me 5 bucks at the store.  In brutally hot ancient Rome during midsummer, you would probably be promoted to ambassador.  the historical pinnacle of the hedonistic culture-  they probably couldn't even fathom such a thing as an an icy treat

there is soooo much wealth today compared to 1000 years ago it isn't even funny.  Take a Hummer with a mounted gatling gun to the asian plains during the mongolian wars of Ghengis Kahn and you will single handedly win the war....all would worship and despair you.  You would rule the world.

Edit: Gratuitous insults removed.

[Dude_Doc]

But what we have today didn't come from thin air. It came from earth. We built it. In order to build a town, one must get materials from the earth. So basically, wealth is not really created in the sence "just like that".

[Anathema]

An important charicteristic of capitalism is that people can make profit- increase of wealth at the cost of others.

It's possible that technological improvements result in increased production and that the standards of living rise for everyone, but the practice situation is that people profit, and that other people lose.

[emprworm]

But what we have today didn't come from thin air. It came from earth. We built it. In order to build a town, one must get materials from the earth. So basically, wealth is not really created in the sence "just like that".

if you deny wealth, then you must deny poverty.  hence bill gates has no more, no less, than a nepalese 17th century sherpa

[Dunenewt]

In the middle ages, some tulip bulbs were worth their weight in gold in Amsterdam.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Emprworm, take ten times more than all the gold in the world, go through a time machine and go back to when nomadic hunting tribes were the norm then see how much wealth you really have.

So ace thinks Gold is worthless to ancient civilizations?

Guess he never heard of the Mayans or the Aztecs?

[GUNWOUNDS]

Wealth is not a physical entity, it is an artificial concept.

[Dante]

Blah blah blah... Go back to Edric's post, he's got the right idea...

[emprworm]

Blah blah blah... Go back to Edric's post, he's got the right idea...

he was wrong, though.  based on Edric's post, since there is so much more discovered gold today, therefore it must have been hugely more valuable in the past.

but this is patently false.

[Dante]

Yeah yeah, whatever... I don't have time for this...

[GUNWOUNDS]

he was wrong, though.

[nemafakei]

In order for someone to be wealthier than average, you still have to have others poorer than average... of course quality of life increases over time: the question is how that quality is distributed - among many, among few, among the deserving or among the greedy.

[emprworm]

In order for someone to be wealthier than average, you still have to have others poorer than average... of course quality of life increases over time: the question is how that quality is distributed - among many, among few, among the deserving or among the greedy.

i also question how the poverty is distributed.

[GUNWOUNDS]

i also question how the poverty is distributed.