Why must Jesus be a white man?

[GUNWOUNDS]

You're question is completely irrelevant because no one is chronically rejecting what you have to say.

1. This shouldn't remind you of those two friends because they are completely different from this situation. For you to imply that there is a link between me and friend #2 is completely idiotic. I made one statement that didn't even reject yours atleast directly, and you come out with your rediculous two friend story. Do you want me to say you are a victim of yet another anti-Christian attack and that I feel for you? Please.

Get over yourself.

Acriku do yourself a favor and shhhhh while your behind . . .

[GUNWOUNDS]

Anyways ... getting back on topic

[Acriku]

But you also don't know if what God did in the very beginning inevitably caused us to sin, caused Adam to take the ultimate bite, caused the people below Mt. Ararat to begin worshipping idols, and so on. I've established in the post before that God did what he did while creating us with the knowledge that we would sin, so it's only logically that he wanted us to sin, he wanted Adam to take that bite, and he wanted the people to begin worshipping idols. Since he's perfect, it's perfectly calculated. Since he wanted it, it can be extended to say that we truly do not have free will, because what God did has given us that only option of sinning.

[Wolf]

Yeah, Acriku, it does make sense. But, we also assume that God is infallible, so, I think that makes not worrying a bit easier. That, and when we combine the "we do what God wants" idea with Christianity, it then really does make sense that God forgives all who ask for it; He would sort of have to, wouldn't He?

[GUNWOUNDS]

Yeah, Acriku, it does make sense. But, we also assume that God is infallible, so, I think that makes not worrying a bit easier. That, and when we combine the "we do what God wants" idea with Christianity, it then really does make sense that God forgives all who ask for it; He would sort of have to, wouldn't He?

i thought grace was something given to those undeserving of it.

but i see where you are going with that but saying that it is his duty is a bit of a stretch

[Ninja_Sher]

There is only one GOD.

Anyway I believe it is kind of pathways that Paul saw while taking spice doses. We have got many paths in our life. So GOD must have given Adam and Eve some choices where they could still live in heaven and there sons ( we ) would be given the same test and if anyone disobeyed would be thrown out. But once father of all men made the mistake GOD did not give anymore thought of having humans in heaven. The GOD had seen this but also seen some other paths that would have been taken if Adam would have behaved differently ( guessing not sure though ).

ps : You do not have to right Juda-Christianity as Christianity is superset of Judaism and anything in Judaism is in Christianity and more ( as it is superset ). ( Anyway I wonder how could there be only one race that follows Judaism, is it not an universal religion as Christianity ? ).

[Wolf]

I'd still like to know if the "God is in us, therefore, our being free does not invalidate his omniscience" line of reasoning goes anywhere.

[GUNWOUNDS]

I'd still like to know if the "God is in us, therefore, our being free does not invalidate his omniscience" line of reasoning goes anywhere.

expound on that more i do not fully understand what you are saying

[GUNWOUNDS]

Does Omniscience Contradict Free Will?

[Acriku]

I don't like that example at all, because he may think he knows his son very well, but there is still the possibility for the child to either be full, sick, or some other reason that would prevent him from taking the cookie. When we talk about God knowing what we are going to do, which is what the example is analogous to, since God is omniscient we must do what he foresees, there's no way around it. There's no miscellaneous chance of not doing it, there's 100% reliability.

[SurlyPIG]

That's not true, Acriku.  Omniscience means that God will simply forsee what you choose with 100% accuracy.  The premace that God cannot be wrong really should be that he isn't wrong.  I have a different argument entirely.

I'm getting a little tired of cookie-cutter responses that don't even address what I'm saying, so I'll re-iterate what I've said a little more clearly and if everyone ignores it then whatever.

Premace A: Cause of the Universe - Assumption that God, not any natural event, caused the big bang and therefore initiated the universe.

Prmace B: Omniscience - Assumption that God is all-knowing; simultaneously aware of everything natural be it past, present, or future.

Premace C: Perfection - God takes no action that he doesn't want.  God created the universe as it exists, has existed, and will exist intentionally.

Premace D: Universal causality - Assumption that every event in the universe has a cause eg a tree falls because I push it, or an avalanche occurs because of erosion, or the Earth orbits the sun because it entered the sun's gravitational field with centripetal force equal to the escape velocity etc.  Everything in the universe was caused by something else, trailing all the way back to the assumed big bang.

Premace E: Personal causality - People are products of God and/or circumstance, inclusive to any one of or any combination of the following: God's design (their souls), genetic behaviour inclination, environmental conditioning, environmental reaction.  Eg I am a rotten person which is because of any combination of the essence of my soul, being brought up void of morality, a misplaced reaction to traumatic events, or a genetic inclination to higher-than-normal testosterone levels making me prone to aggression.  I am a bad person for a reason.  Had I been given a better soul, or used the one I had better, or had I been raised with morals and values, or had I not been subjected to traumas I couldn't deal with, or had I not been genetically inclined to having high levels of aggression-causing hormones, I would not be the same, rotten person that I am.  Conversely, good people are good because they have and use good souls, were taught morals, have not been subjected to exceptoinal trajedy and trauma, and/or have balanced behavior-causing hormone levels.

When God created the universe, God created circumstance.  Humans either evolved from that circumstance, making it a forseen, intentional action; a product of God's will that humanity came to exist, or humans wer placed created by God and placed on Earth by God as per the Bible.  Either way, humanity is here because of God, and we are who we are because of God.  Because God created the universe (premace A) and thus created circumstance, anything that is a product of circumstance, whether it is a person or a natural event (premaces D and E), is also, therefore, a product of God.  Volcanoes, hurricanes, floods, thunderstorms, meteor showers and other natural events are a product of God because all of these things are products of circumstance and God is the creator of the circumstance that led to their existence and since God makes no mistakes (premace C) it is therefore God's will that these events occurred.  People are the same way because they are also either a product of circumstance as their identity is determined by their environment and/or their genetic inclination (both being circumstances) and/or their souls, a direct creation of God.

If God creates A universe which leads to B star which leads to C planet which leads to D species which leads to E individual which leads to F decision which leads to G action, then everything along the line, A-G, is sanctioned by God's will because God is omniscient and perfect (premaces B and C).  Therefore, free will (individual human decisions) is synonymous with God's will.

[GUNWOUNDS]

That's not true, Acriku.

[SurlyPIG]

That's more like it...

"However this reminds me of the Priests asking Jesus if it was ok to Divorce... and Jesus said.... God "permits" you to do so ... but he does not "Condone" it.    THUS one can conclude that God does permit things to happen outside of His Will.  Which puts a hole in your argument because you are claiming that anything that happens IS his Will."

Why do you assume that only what God says is his will?  If God says that he doesn't condone divorces but permits them then obviously it is his will they are permitted but not condoned, not that marraige is his will and divorces are outside of his will.

"Thus it would seem that *everything* that happens is NOT Gods Will. Else why would he try to cleanse the earth of evil as well as his followers."

How, exactly, are you defining God's will?  If it were Gods will to never have to cleanse the earth of evil then why couldn't an all-powerful, all-knowing being find a more direct way to do so?  It seems to me that it was his will for evil to develop and then be cleansed, not for it to have never developed in the first place.

"But that is like saying if i fall and break my arm that i should blame God for giving me bones that can break.  You may be able to administer the blame but that doesnt mean the blame is just."

Whether you call it blame, responsibility, design, or will, it's meaning is the same; God, having forseen the results of his creations, set you up to break your arm and did nothing to prevent it from happening, and as per premace C, if God doesn't do things he doesn't want to happen, he wanted to you break your arm.