Dune Messiah Questions

[AeonGrey]

Hi, I hope this isn't too annoying.  I just finished Dune Messiah for the second time and I still don't full understand everything that happened.  There are a few things that I feel like I "missed".  For one...What exactly did Korba "do"?  Did he purposely plot against Muad'Dib?  I can't see any reason why he would.  Wasn't he practically a worshipper of Muad'Dib?  I dunno...maybe I'm just stupid, but the Dune books always do this to me.  Any help?

[Khan]

Well didn't he plot to use the stone burner that blinded Paul. I think that he did it because he was 'afraid' of all the changes that were happening on Dune and he wanted things to get back to the way they were before.

[SpiceGuid]

Korba wants Muadib to be an icon like Jesus and Lenin, a good messiah is a dead messiah.

So, whether or not Korba is really involved in the stone burner plot, that doesn't really matter, the atreides are totalitarian, they need a purge to reaffirm their control.

Actually Korba just wants politics and religion to be separated. So either Frank Herbert likes to mock our modern democraties, or alternatively he likes to mock the reader sympathy for the atreides.

The atreides not only have both power and religion, they are both power and religion.

Would i accept that in my country?

How far disempowering is my trust?

Can i be manipulated and abandon my destiny to my leaders?

Do i think Bush will save the world with peace, security and freedom?

Do i think Chirac will build a world with equal rights and social justice?

Certainly not.

So i have the power, the leaders only flatter my utopia.

[AeonGrey]

Korba wants Muadib to be an icon like Jesus and Lenin, a good messiah is a dead messiah.

So, whether or not Korba is really involved in the stone burner plot, that doesn't really matter, the atreides are totalitarian, they need a purge to reaffirm their control.

Actually Korba just wants politics and religion to be separated. So either Frank Herbert likes to mock our modern democraties, or alternatively he likes to mock the reader sympathy for the atreides.

The atreides not only have both power and religion, they are both power and religion.

Would i accept that in my country?

How far disempowering is my trust?

Can i be manipulated and abandon my destiny to my leaders?

Do i think Bush will save the world with peace, security and freedom?

Do i think Chirac will build a world with equal rights and social justice?

Certainly not.

So i have the power, the leaders only flatter my utopia.

I see your point...but it's not like Paul had taken the sandtrout simbiosis or something and was going to live for thousands of years.  I just got the impression that Korba really admired Paul...worshipped him.  Oh but wait....I think it's becoming clear.  Maybe Paul wasn't really a friend in Korba's eyes.  Maybe Korba enjoyed his place in Muad Dib's religious empire/jihad.  Korba probably had a certain power over other men that he enjoyed...and maybe this is why he admired Paul so much, not as a friend.  And I can see how if Paul were to die, it would only strengthen the hold his Qizarate had.  Hmmm...thank you all for getting the thoughts a-stirrin' in my head.

[SpiceGuid]

You perfectly got the point.

The reason why Korba is not yet the guardian of the prophecy is because the prophecy is living.

That's somewhat similar to Jeanne Of Arc.

Charles VII is immensely grateful to Jeanne.

She made him king of France.

However Jeanne directly communicates with God, obviously that weakens the french religious aristocracy.

So Jeanne better serves the kingdom if she's dead.

You see, it's not just SF...

[Mahdi]

You perfectly got the point.

The reason why Korba is not yet the guardian of the prophecy is because the prophecy is living.

That's somewhat similar to Jeanne Of Arc.

Charles VII is immensely grateful to Jeanne.

She made him king of France.

However Jeanne directly communicates with God, obviously that weakens the french religious aristocracy.

So Jeanne better serves the kingdom if she's dead.

You see, it's not just SF...

Ha, there are some who would argue quite convincingly that your example of Joan of Arc actually refutes your point that it isn't just sf.... ;)

[SpiceGuid]

no problem, i only mean thanks to FH wide knowledge, Dune more than once sounds familiar

[Ninja_Sher]

Ha, there are some who would argue quite convincingly that your example of Joan of Arc actually refutes your point that it isn't just sf.... ;)

Jeanne De Arc was killed because of her King's jealousy ( inserted by the paid traitor ) of her popularity. Muaddib was the Emperor and was target of a coup. It does not sound that much similar.

[Mahdi]

I was reffering to Napolean pretty much inventing the whole Joan of Arc story.

[Ninja_Sher]

I was reffering to Napolean pretty much inventing the whole Joan of Arc story.

???

[Korba]

i also started reading messiah again and too wondered just what was the deal.. sorta explains it, although i wonder if there is more to it. (from FrankH's point of view)

is this a good place to get into Literary analysis with Dune? i never read past messiah bc i got boored with "children of" after about 3X pages.

[SpiceGuid]

@korba

i also got bored by Children of Dune, but you really have to continue with God Emperor of Dune, you wont regret.

also note that Korba would prefer democracy rather than a living prophecy.

that's enough to justify death sentence ;)