Dune Sequels & Prequels

[bob_fox]

I read Dune and Dune Messiah and enjoyed them thoroughly. I couldn't finish Children of Dune - I didn't like it at all! Do you think it's worth struggling through COD in order to read the three Dune novels after it (GEOD, HOD and CD)? (I know, it's a weird question.)

Very recently, I read The Butlerian Jihad and it was very good. Exciting, though not as deep as Frank Herbert's books. What are your thoughts on the Legends of Dune books (two have been published so far, according to http://www.dunenovels.com)? What about Prelude to Dune? You can talk about any Dune novel you want, in fact!

[IxianMace]

I've only read Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune, and God Emperor of Dune. I thoroughly enjoyed God Emperor of Dune, it would be well worth reading Children of Dune in my opinion.

[Inoculator9]

CoD is definitely worth reading, because as you progress, it gets gradually more and more interesting. After CoD, the Dune books get more cerebral, but there are a few rewarding battle scenes ;)

[bob_fox]

A book doesn't have to have huge battle scenes for me to like it. That Children of Dune didn't have much action wasn't the reason I didn't like it. (After all, Dune Messiah had hardly any action, and it was still interesting for me.)

But, anyway, what you two are saying is that the last three books are better. Okay.

[TMA_1]

I understand sven, I mean not every book is for me either. I have tried to read certain books and I dislike them horribly. COD to some is wonderful, in fact it is my friend matt's favorite. Well that and chapterhouse. For me I thought I would hate heretics. It was absolutely boring at the very beginning, because there was no attachment to the new characters. I pushed myself through it though and then it was wonderful! It is all a matter of opinion.

Though I DISPISE the butlerian jihad series, because they sink to a new low of Dune writing, the prelude series is pretty darn fun. As long as brian and kevin have actual info to follow on, they write things half ways decently. Once they are practically on their own though info wise they just dont cut it.

[bob_fox]

Interestingly, my dad (HUGE Dune fan) thinks Children of Dune is the best Dune book, or at least one of the best.

You hated BJ? The story was good and the characters were quite complex, especially Erasmus. I do admit, though, that the book was very 'jumpy', so the story took a long time to progress. It was like this: 'Selim walks here, says this' 'Xavier takes off' 'Erasmus likes doing experiments'. It tended to repeat itself.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

I think that CoD is good. though I agree it might be boring in the beginning.

Preludes are very good books! Though I like Butlerian Jihad better. However I haven't read teh second BJ book.

[TMA_1]

I will agree totally that erasmus was a wonderful creation, I just like the DE better, it infected me, so I am a heretic when it comes to that stuff.

[Inoculator9]

Lol, I agree with your dad than Sven... CoD probably was one of my favorites.

[SpiceGuid]

Don't worry Sven, you can enjoy all Dune novels without reading CoD.

I would say you can read GEoD without reading CoD, what i do not recommend is reading Chapterhouse without Heretics.

Don't struggle through COD if you don't like it, the chances that you will ever like it are not too bright, it is the most boring in my opinion. Read GEoD instead, GEoD is intellectually and emotionnally rewarding, as a reader you have to decide what is good and what is evil, but then the love story challenges your initial decision.

[bob_fox]

But, going back to Legends and Prelude, it's interesting to note what Brian Herbert said. He said that it was quite a bit easier for he and Kevin to write Legends of Dune than their other prequel series because they weren't confined as much by what Frank had written. And I could see they had fun writing BJ.

I haven't read the second Legends book yet either. It, The Machine Crusade, has already been published, and the third book, The Battle of Corrin, is due for release in September 2004.

BTW - What's DE? (I know, I'm ignorant.)

[Emperor Harkonnen]

The DE is the Dune Encyclopedia. You can download it from internett some place, which I dunno. It is interesting to read, though I wish I had the real book and not just the computer version :(

The DE is more or less just fan fic.

[bob_fox]

Are you talking about The Dune Encyclopedia by Dr. Willis E. McNelly? Brian Herbert said that his father never felt bound by that book (Frank died about 3 years after it was released), and neither did he and Kevin in the writing of their prequels. That's why I'm not so interested in it. Besides, I want to have the book in my hands.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

I agree Sven, it would have been a lot more interesting if Frank approved it and Brian and Kevin used it in their writing. though I understand that they wouldn't, because they should have some fun themselves writing a story of their own :)

[Inoculator9]

Frank did approve of it, and the two of them were said to be close friends. Brian seems either to not know about this, not care, or perhaps his version is the true one, but despite that, the DE is a massively interesting read.

And Emperor Harkonnen, discussing illegal downloads is not approved of on this board.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

sorry :-X didn't knew it was illegal

anyway how do you know Frank approved of the de?

[Vanguard3000]

Herbert wrote the forward for the DE, saying, in a nutshell, that he approved of the idea, but that the ideas expressed were not necessarily in sync with his own plans for the series.

[bob_fox]

What Vanguard3000 has just said agrees with what I know. DE didn't even agree with what Frank had written in his unpublished notes before '84, if I understand Brian correctly.

[TMA_1]

Brian knew about frank and mcnelly being friends, and obviously they wouldnt agree that the DE is cannon because they are writing their own books. Also even though frank did like it, he did write things that conflicted with it in later books, so he obviously didnt wnat to cannonize it himself.

I take everything that doesent conflict and use it as apart of my Dune universe. The prequels are just sidelights. THat is what I believe personally and isnt really the agreed way. It is just fiction though, so you can do what you wish with it.

I was so desperate I printed it all out.lol so I have it to read. It is superior in writing to the prequels imo

[Andrew]

Read all the original Dune novels written by Frank herbert. That is my advice. GEoD, heretics and chapterhouse are very good books once you get past the first 1/3 of the novel and understand who each character is. and what they are talking about.

I was like WTH is a no-ship? :D

[Emperor Harkonnen]

I use The original novels, the prequels and the DE as a part of my duniverse. The original novels go above the prequels while the prequels go above the DE.

That's my view.

[TMA_1]

prequels going above the de?? lol why do you say that? even though the DE is not in a story format per ce, it has much more of a "dune feeling."

[Emperor Harkonnen]

I place the prequels above the DE, because they are based upon Frank Herberts own notes. and because I want the duniverse to be further expanded and then we need some more books, and both Frank and Mcnelly are unfortunately dead. So if we say that Mcnelly's book is more correct than the prequels we won't have any further story in Dune. Everything would be over. Nothing more to read.

[bob_fox]

prequels going above the de?? lol why do you say that? even though the DE is not in a story format per ce, it has much more of a "dune feeling."

I feel that one shouldn't really expect Legends of Dune to have the 'Dune feeling'. The original Dune novels are set quite a few millennia after Legends, and I reason that, in the days of the Butlerian Jihad, life was faster paced. (I haven't read any of the Prelude books yet, though.)

[TMA_1]

the dune feeling doesnt require the same technology, philosophy or even culture, it is the writing style I am talking about.

Also, I am highly suspect of the "notes" that brian and kevin use. THey never let anyone know exactly what the notes contain. They have given brief ideas of what they have, but from what it sounds most of it is just rambling of ideas about many many things. There are large notes of specifics, but from what i heard of the amount of them, not enough to base an entire couple of series on, brian and kevin admitted that a lot of what they write is directly from their own ideas, especially the legends of dune series. Most of what they write is taken directly from Frank's series, and the new stuff that has been made seems to be different from the mindset of frank in my opinion, it isnt as creative or intuative.

The Dune feeling isnt there, and that isnt done on purpose, but is a lack of style that frank had. THat isnt bad actually, and a lot of people mistake what I say to think it is bad. It just ISNT the way frank would write. It isnt that I dislike how they write per ce (sometimes I think it is horrible, but not always, some of what they write has been great). A lot of it is just different from how frank would write, and different writing styles and ideas that are put in a universe that was Frank's in the beginning just dont mix with franks universe. It is another couple of writers taking frank's universe and writing it in their own style, that cannot be stopped, but the fact that they write in the universe almost taints it in my opinion.

From what iH ave read of frank, I dont think he would mind brian and kevin continuing the Dune series, in fact frank probably would have liked brian continuing the series. He would see it as just more fiction to entertain the masses as he would put it. But to me, and how I take the universe. I dont like it. It is just a personal opinion. THat is the wonder of fiction. Each person builds his or her own perspective on such things.

In the end brian and kevin dont do it for me, and the DE does better in all things that the DE covers. That is all my opinion