MrPsycho

Well, in an effort to educate myself I googled the concept of a palestinian state and I got this f.l.a.m.e. article: http://www.factsandlogic.org/ad_79.html I already knew the argument that there are no true "palestinian" people, and the word itself is a roman designation. But after reading the security arguement, I now understand why Israel would not want a palestinian state. However, if the plan is not to create a separate state- then what is the plan? If the palestinians cannot govern themselves, how will they be represented?

Ok I only heard the water thing on NPR, so I profess my knowledge of the issue is limited in scope and I probably don't know more than someone who actually lives there. Besides, I have heard that NPR is biased towards the palestinians anyways. I know all about the war for independence, the six day war, the yom kippur war and other conflicts. I was trying to ignore general Arab/Israeli conflicts because they're not especially relevant to the topic. If Leo would like, perhaps he can explain things to me like why Prime Minister Begin agreed to Palestinian self-determination in the Egypt treaty, yet the formation of a separate state never happened. I suppose "security issues" can be cited, yet the region doesn't appear very secure to me now anyways. The palestinians will never give in; they want complete independence and a permanent line drawn between the two (like I mentioned before I think certain religously important sites should be neutral). Why is Isreal so opposed to a palestinian state? From an outsider's perspective, all I can see are strikes and counter strikes and retaliatory strikes and preemptive strikes from all sides. I don't think either side is absolved from guilt- which is what makes me angry when my jewish friends start ranting about how completely innocent Israel is. Yes, it is true every nation around yours wants you destroyed, and I sympathize. You probably do give tremendous aid to the palestinians anyways (of course, the United States gives tremendous aid to Isreal). But why do you kill Hamas leaders and raid villages and accidentally kill innocent people. Why not just give them what they want?

I would like to thank the recent posts who recognize that there is not just side in this. However this post still makes me angry: Ok, lets look at the other side. Imagine you are a Palestinian. You live in the middle of the desert. Your land is given away to migrant jews. Admittedly, the general consensus from your relgious beliefs dictates a long standing distrust and hatred of jews, which ignites multiple wars and conflicts, but for all practical purposes doesn't affect what everyone keeps referring to as the "common man(palestinian or israeli)". So as years go by, more and more of your land is taken. Bulldozers topple your homes to make room for Israeli housing developments. The region you live in is in economic ruin. You are forced to go to Israel for work. Humiliatingly, twenty year old israeli security guards patronize and degrade you in front of your family as you try to cross a security checkpoint. The Israeli government enacts numerous sanctions against your region which prevent aid (such as water) from being adequitely provided by organizations such as the Red Cross. There is simply not enough water in the majority of rural palestinian occupied areas. You have no medical care, no sustaining local jobs, and you live in a hovel. And still, the Israelis take your land. Not to mention, the Israelis have plenty of water and medical care and prosperity and adequite housing and most importantly rights. And they are indignant: the palestinians are mindless mobs, their racial/religious hatred fosters unreasonable etc etc etc. So you become a freedom fighter, the only thing which seems reasonable in your mind. These are desperate people. Desperate people commit attrocities. (Now I'm not trying to defend the suicide bombings but I am showing you their reasoning). Now this is what I see as the defendable Israeli position: You have been shunned by governments from around the world(post WW2). You want an independent jewish state where you are safe and possess self-determination. The palestinians appear to you as hateful anti-semites like the torturous people from europe who either abused your relatives or friends, or at the very least would not allow you to live in their country. A single palestinian blows up a bus; you raid a ghetto in order to kill a faction leader- some innocents die. Those innocents have relatives left over. They bomb a checkpoint. You lose a son. Something must be done. You build a wall. Palestinians bomb your wall... It never ends. The difference in sides is that the Israelis took the land. I don't believe in the claim that the land was there for Israel's taking. The same view is applied to america and the Indian. Additionally, Israel obviously has more control and organization and is in a better position for progressive compromises and change. No matter how unreasonable Palestinian terrorists may seem, the burden for peaceful compromise lies with Israel. btw I didnt even get into the whole religious claim to certain lands- which is terribly complicated, but suffice it to say I think such places should be put under UN or some sort of international control to avoid further complications. Now you dont have to agree with me, but please dont call people ignorant or racist for trying to understand the palestinian side of the conflict (or the Israeli one for that matter).

Thats disappointing we didn't beat the original miniseries. :P

lol, I completely agree. SciFi really screwed up the experience. Oh well I was faithful for the ratings, but now its downloading and video taping madness for me! ;D

I loved the movie. SciFi channel has done a superb job this time around. I agree with one of the previous reviews that commented on the overall visual feel. I thought it looked better without all the green lighting, but still something did feel a little off. The acting was nicely done. However I missed the actor who play Stilgar, and the actor who played Gurney. Even though Alice Krige is an excellent actress, I felt she didn't quite fit the part, and played the role without the emotion of her previous counterpart. The music was fantastic; I'll be purchasing the soundtrack. I have to say one of my favorite parts was the scene mentioned above with the birth of the twins, and the death scenes. The music really spoke all the words in the half a dozen chapters they blazed through in those 2 minutes. Above all, my biggest gripe was the way the SciFi channel handled the presentation. Since I'm in MST, I had to watch each segment from 10 to 12, every night, for 3 nights(mostly I'd rewatch the one from 8 to 10 as well). This made me exhausted, but I watched it anyways to support the ratings. Also, the commercials were literally over 10 minutes long; this significantly broke my train of thought and ruined the continuity. I'd love to watch a version all in one sitting, without commercials. I hope the SciFi channel goes on to finish the series, and I also hope they don't come out with a terrible weekly Dune sitcom. Overall an excellent presentation, with few actual gripes in the film. ;)

Oh please don't butcher the series! Frank Herbert's work was visionary, and I can't imagine how you could turn it into a soap opera. Aren't there plenty of books left to make into movies?

Thanks. :) Might I add that the both the other mods look promising as well! Good to see the community busy.

Hey thanks for posting news about Dune: TAB. The tech tree is nearing completion. Just so everyones aware, the site link is: http://dune.r8.org, and not directly pointing to the pages which contain the news. Within a few hours, I'll have some new code on that site which will automatically redirect returning visitors, who have seen the intro. Linking directly prevents the window from maximizing. Oh and to join the team you could send me a pm, or an email. Thanks for your interest guys! 8)

;D Cool. I was hoping people who like Dune also like EF. If you want some EF2 screenshots, check out http://www.ritualistic.com/screens/ef2_05.html for some of the latest. Here are some more, these are shots of the latest build: http://www.effiles.com/file.stuff?body=ef2screenshots8

From our site: "Tahaddi Al-Burhan is a multiplayer class-based mod for the game Star Trek: Elite Force 2. It is based on Frank Herbert's book series Dune, as well as the Sci-Fi Channel Miniseries, and various popular software Dune titles. The setting ranges across the universe, during the timeframe of the original book." A much more detailed account of the classes, forces, weapons and abilities can be found on our website. We have a flash intro too (heh its pretty big), that illustrates a lot of the things we want to put into the game. The core team is currently working on composing the tech tree. We are trying to stay as canon(true to the book) as possible. Fortunately, we have recieved overwhelming support from the ef community, which has allowed us to go forward with this total conversion. The tools and flexiblity of this engine is also one of the reasons we picked it. Our planned game mode is also a little interesting. It should be noted that Elite Force 2 is due out on the shelves within a month or so, before the end of Q1. Once the game releases, we will be allowing more people (mainly more mappers and modelers) to join the team. I suggest you head on over to our site, and check out the info page if you want to learn more. http://dune.r8.org -MrPsycho Team Lead