Colombia going through civil war

[emprworm]

Security Watch: Colombia's Civil War

Feb 26, 2003

President Alvaro Uribe Velez took office in August 2002 vowing to defeat Colombian rebels through superior military force and with U.S. aid. Six months later, however, Colombia is more violent, and Uribe's offensive shows no signs of achieving its goal. Instead, the rebels appear to be holding their own in oil-rich Arauca province and to be launching a new urban campaign targeting civilians.

Colombian government has launched military strikes against the country's main guerrilla group, the FARC - plunging the nation into a new war that likely will sweep in the smaller ELN guerrilla group and the right-wing AUC paramilitary. It will fall to Colombia's next president - one of seven current candidates - to attempt to claw a solution out of the chaos.

[Digital Guerrilla]

The indigenous Indian poulation is also in danger many tribes are facing encroachment from guerrillas, paramilitaries, the army, gold miners, drug traffickers and gun runners. The pressure from the leftest rebels of FRAC (Fuerzas Armadas Revolucionarias de Colombia) has many worried that the guerrillas will attract right-wing paramilitary gunmen who have a history of massacring those they accuse of collaborating with rebels. The leftist rebels have been known to forcibly recruit Indians to work as guerrillas and jungle guides. It is sad cultures that have survived for centuries are being lost. Fuerzas Armadas Revolucionarias de Colombia, Ejercito de Liberación Nacional, Autodefensas Unidas de Colombia are all considered terrorist organizations by the U.S. State Department.

[zamboe]

Something to add, Colombia in the last 6 months in the military war against the FARC was more succesfull than in the last 6 years. Former president Pastrana tried by all possible ways to start peace conversations, the FARC in several ocassion kept it's terrorist activities which finally destroyed the peace conversations and didn't allow Pastrana´s political party to win the elections again. President Uribe in it's campaing said he was going to destroy the FARC, no more conversations with terrorists. So far, with many problems in the middle, he is somehow doing what he said.

Colombia has not civil war issues, those are military issues.

But at the present days, I'd be more concern about Venezuela, civil war is really a potential situation over there.

[emprworm]

not to mention the 1.3 billion dollars the US gives to columbia to help them in their efforts. Hopefully this will contribute to their success.

"Washington provides vast amounts of money, equipment, intelligence and training to the Colombian military through both the U.S. military and private contractors. Funding and training activities have increased steadily, culminating in 2000 with a $1.3 billion commitment to Plan Colombia"

[zamboe]

not to mention the 1.3 billion dollars the US gives to columbia to help them in their efforts. Hopefully this will contribute to their success.

"Washington provides vast amounts of money, equipment, intelligence and training to the Colombian military through both the U.S. military and private contractors. Funding and training activities have increased steadily, culminating in 2000 with a $1.3 billion commitment to Plan Colombia"

1.3 billion in 5 years. It's not a one time payment in money and equipment.

[emprworm]

well that is a LOT of cash, and it is not a loan. there is no repayment expected, and sure it wasn't given all at once, but that doesn't minimize that the US is coming to Columbia's aid probably more than any other country in the world. Is there anyone else even helping them other than the US? Maybe there is, but I don't know.

1.3 billion is nothing to laugh at. over 5 years that is still 300 million per year.

it would have been kind of cool had you said something positive about what the US was doing with Columbia, but instead a negative sounding connotation. amazing.

[zamboe]

well that is a LOT of cash, and it is not a loan. there is no repayment expected, and sure it wasn't given all at once, but that doesn't minimize that the US is coming to Columbia's aid probably more than any other country in the world. Is there anyone else even helping them other than the US? Maybe there is, but I don't know.

1.3 billion is nothing to laugh at. over 5 years that is still 300 million per year.

it would have been kind of cool had you said something positive about what the US was doing with Columbia, but instead a negative sounding connotation. amazing.

I guess the drug gran fathers would laugh of it, they provide more money to the FARC than we can possible imagen. About two years ago, the Colombia navy captured a pirate SUBmarine that was being prepared for the FARC. That's really too much.

[emprworm]

well the fact remains that the US is helping columbia.

i guess I was hoping to hear you actually say "The US is helping columbia" but my expectations were too high...*sigh.*

[zamboe]

well the fact remains that the US is helping columbia.

i guess I was hoping to hear you actually say "The US is helping columbia" but my expectations were too high...*sigh.*

In this particular subject I completly agree with you.

I am not Colombian, but as a South American I thank every country that is helping Colombia, US in the first place. Your help is most welcome.

FARC should be destroyed with no mercy, they've caused so much terrible atrocities to a defenseless people that believe in democracy.

[emprworm]

well by helping columbia in this matter, the US helps many nations in addition to columbia- including its own nation and even nations overseas. I fear though that even if Columbia is successful (and I think they will be), that the drugs will find other masters who will continue the work. just my opinion here. what do you think?

[zamboe]

well by helping columbia in this matter, the US helps many nations in addition to columbia- including its own nation and even nations overseas. I fear though that even if Columbia is successful (and I think they will be), that the drugs will find other masters who will continue the work. just my opinion here. what do you think?

Depends, I doubt there are other place where extreme left-wing terrorists (that's the FARC xtreme left-wing) and drug makers are together. Maybe Peru, but they got rid of "Sendero Luminoso" (The all time worst terrorist group after Al Qaeda) a few years ago. This is a two side battle, getting rid off of extremist left-wing terrorists and drug / cocaine criminals, in the long run they wont survive if we somehow isolate them and destroy them.

[emprworm]

wow, i"ve been reading up on the atrocities of the FARC. they are as bad as al-queda. man, this is horrible!

Security Watch: Colombia's Civil War

Feb 26, 2003

Summary

A powerful car bomb destroyed Bogota's exclusive El Nogal Club on Feb. 7, killing 33 people and injuring 168. It was the largest explosive device detonated in Bogota since the late 1980s, and both in design and execution, it was the most sophisticated bomb attack the FARC has ever carried out, according to Colombian police sources. A week later the FARC detonated an estimated 200 kilograms of explosives hidden inside a home in Neiva as Colombian soldiers and police were about to raid the dwelling, killing at least 17 people and injuring 45, mainly civilians, according to Colombian news reports.

The FARC's roughly 18,000 rebels are not sufficiently large or well enough equipped to seize power in Colombia. However, the FARC has compensated for its numerical disadvantage by teaming up in rural areas with the ELN and by launching an offensive against civilians in urban areas.

Veteran FARC observers in Colombia, including former U.S. military members who now provide private security consulting services there, are somewhat at a loss to explain why the FARC has adopted a strategy of terrorizing civilians with bomb attacks. By indiscriminately killing and maiming people, the FARC likely will lose any remaining claim to political legitimacy and simultaneously will give both the Colombian and U.S. governments ample reason to condemn the group as an international terrorist organization that does not merit political recognition or peace negotiations.

[emprworm]

I CANT BELIEVE THE US HASN"T ALREADY CONDEMNED THEM AS AN INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST GROUP!!! If they do that, they would have much more leverage from congress to send some troops in there and clean house. I wonder why we havent done that?

[zamboe]

I CANT BELIEVE THE US HASN"T ALREADY CONDEMNED THEM AS AN INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST GROUP!!! If they do that, they would have much more leverage from congress to send some troops in there and clean house. I wonder why we havent done that?

Well, you'd better don't read what Sendero Luminoso did, that was far more terrible than what FARC have done so far.

I hope all people share that I want all those FARC destroyed with NO MERCY.

[emprworm]

the FARC i think seem even worse then Islamic terrorists for this one reason: they don't suicide themselves meaning that when Miguel bombs a building....he will be alive to bomb another building tomorrow. they are targetting virtually exclusively civilllians. what SCUM. 18,000 pieces of garbage that need to be cleaned up. may justice come swiftly, and roll like a mighty river!

[zamboe]

the FARC i think seem even worse then Islamic terrorists for this one reason: they don't suicide themselves meaning that when Miguel bombs a building....he will be alive to bomb another building tomorrow. they are targetting virtually exclusively civilllians. what SCUM. 18,000 pieces of garbage that need to be cleaned up. may justice come swiftly, and roll like a mighty river!

Why you said "Miguel" ?

[Digital Guerrilla]

Emprworm doesn't know that his statement puts a sterotypical face on the terrorist excuse his cultural ignorance. I know how you will defend yourself (Emprworm) but before you say anything here is my explanation, by saying "Miguel" and not "these terrorist" in comparision to Islamic terrorist gives it a sort of ethnic bias. Yes there maybe someone called "Miguel" but it sounds racist against those of Latino descent. You might not have ment it that way but by zamboe's response you can see the negative effect.

[back on subject]

FARC was an organization started about 38-years ago (early 60's), FARC was a populist group with the Marxist leanings that made for a good grassroots revolution. Their movement was once a purely simple political revolt (if political revolts can be called simple). Then FARC chose to resort to cold hard terrorism. Their attacks on the business and political infrastructure has only hurt the Columbian people. This demoralization has lead the people to the point that they accept civil war, domestic terrorism, and endless kidnapping as a way of life. What was once a hope for the Columbian people is now a disgrace.

[emprworm]

Emprworm doesn't know that his statement puts a sterotypical face on the terrorist excuse his cultural ignorance. I know how you will defend yourself (Emprworm) but before you say anything here is my explanation, by saying "Miguel" and not "these terrorist" in comparision to Islamic terrorist gives it a sort of ethnic bias. Yes there maybe someone called "Miguel" but it sounds racist against those of Latino descent. You might not have ment it that way but by zamboe's response you can see the negative effect.

[back on subject]

FARC was an organization started about 38-years ago (early 60's), FARC was a populist group with the Marxist leanings that made for a good grassroots revolution. Their movement was once a purely simple political revolt (if political revolts can be called simple). Then FARC chose to resort to cold hard terrorism. Their attacks on the business and political infrastructure has only hurt the Columbian people. This demoralization has lead the people to the point that they accept civil war, domestic terrorism, and endless kidnapping as a way of life. What was once a hope for the Columbian people is now a disgrace.

uhh...lol wahts all this about "Miguel?" I am just tossing in a hypothetical name. Maybe I should have said "Ackmad" or "Vladislav" or "Hartmut?" I mean c'mon guys! True, I assumed that "Miguel" would be a common name found in that region of the world...however, if I am wrong about that assumption, I apologize. But I see nothing wrong with a hypothetical name. And I do want to be regionally accurate with a hypothetical name.

So I am asking you: Is "Miguel" a name commonly found in Columbia? If it is not, I take it back.

[quoudam72]

uhh...lol wahts all this about "Miguel?" I am just tossing in a hypothetical name. Maybe I should have said "Ackmad" or "Vladislav" or "Hartmut?" I mean c'mon guys! True, I assumed that "Miguel" would be a common name found in that region of the world...however, if I am wrong about that assumption, I apologize. But I see nothing wrong with a hypothetical name. And I do want to be regionally accurate with a hypothetical name.

So I am asking you: Is "Miguel" a name commonly found in Columbia? If it is not, I take it back.

First of all why do you have to name the terrorist in the first place. Second why not just say "Arabic", "Irish", "Columbian", "Russian" "North American" or whatever the ethnic background these terrorist. I myself would not take immediate offensive to what you said but I understand how it could be preceived in that manner.

[emprworm]

uhh...lol wahts all this about "Miguel?" I am just tossing in a hypothetical name. Maybe I should have said "Ackmad" or "Vladislav" or "Hartmut?" I mean c'mon guys! True, I assumed that "Miguel" would be a common name found in that region of the world...however, if I am wrong about that assumption, I apologize. But I see nothing wrong with a hypothetical name. And I do want to be regionally accurate with a hypothetical name.

So I am asking you: Is "Miguel" a name commonly found in Columbia? If it is not, I take it back.

First of all why do you have to name the terrorist in the first place. Second why not just say "Arabic", "Irish", "Columbian", "Russian" "North American" or whatever the ethnic background these terrorist. I myself would not take immediate offensive to what you said but I understand how it could be preceived in that manner.

because I am not politically correct, and I absolutely loathe political correctness. I think it is a societal abomination. Funny how you guys were quick to "stereotype" the name Miguel as being someone latino. Ha!! Thats funny. Maybe "Miguel" is someone from Northern Mongolia. Hey, he could be a tribal guy out in the middle of Indonesia. Can you see how rediculous political correctness can be when taken too far? The only apology I offer is if Miguel is not a common name to Columbia. If it is not, I apologize. And naming the terrorists is my perogative. They DO have names.

[quoudam72]

I should expect as much from you. It has nothing to do with any damn political correctness no matter what you say Empie. Let's get back to the subject this minor arguement is a waste of bandwith.

[emprworm]

I should expect as much from you. It has nothing to do with any damn political correctness no matter what you say Empie. Let's get back to the subject this minor arguement is a waste of bandwith.

lol, of course it is! However, you are correct. back on topic. i'll start a new thread about political correctness.

[zamboe]

I am trying to stay calm.

I so f*cking pissed off right now.

I've never been so heavily insulted by no one in this board, like this time.

Yes, my name in real life is Miguel.

I've asked first a very simple question, giving the benefit of the doubt, " Why you said "Miguel"?, but emprworm's answers of some sort have proven to my understanding that he is a racist, sterotypical discriminator and ignorant.

This is not an issue if it's common name or not, it goes way beyond that, it shows the deep down thinking of those people.

I'll elaborate later, I just don't want to write more right now.

[quoudam72]

Neo-fascist groups in Columbia are the core of the problem. There are three combatants: the Columbian army, left-wing guerillas and right-wing paramilitary groups and population is caught in between the left and the right wing groups. The paramilitary was organized by wealthy landowners to provide security for themselves and their properties, now it had become nothing more than a neo-fascist terrorist group with it politics of social "cleansing". This right-wing organization may netrulize the guerilla rebels but their presence is about as wanted as alligators at the watering hole.

Columbia is about oil, officials, and opposition. The 800-hundred mile long pipline is vital to Columbia's econmony but the Columbian army task is a great one the area around the pipline serves as a camouflage for the guerillas who regularly place mines to blow up sections of the pipline. The guerillas believe the Columbian economy should not succumb to foreign multinationals (the pipline is owned in part by Occidental Petroleum, a U.S. company) but they will risk environmental damage to prove the extent of their so-called nationalism.

[emprworm]

calm down, Zamboe. I am not calling you a terrorist dude. Chill man. I wouldnt think of such a thing. There is nothing racists about using names common to regions. I don't see that racist at all. When I think of Arabs living in Iraq, I do not think of names like "Fred, John, or Jack". IN fact, I am willing to wager you that there is not a single Iraqi living in Iraq with the name "Fred". Cmon man, get logical here with me. Iraqi's have Iraqi names indiginous to their region. The fact that your name is Miguel only shows the accuracy in the statistical anthropological facts that names of people can be classified to geological regions of the world.

When you go to Russia, names like Vladimir will be common. How is this racist? Cmon man. Be reasonable. It is not racist in the slightest. You really think "Miguel" is a common name in Russia or Mongolia? Please. All 18,000 FARC members have names. THey have actual names. And it is fully reasonable to assume that the majority of those names will be names common to their region. If you actually think I should assume that they have russian names just for the sake of being "politically correct" you are kidding yourself. I am not politically correct. Perhaps thats why so many ppl hate my posts. Maybe that is the answer to it all. I think being politically correct is BAD.

Also: I do not think stereotyping is necessarily BAD either. There are numerous ways that stereotyping is a good thing (seeing a police officer in uniform, for example, it is fully proper for me to make assumptions about him). Calling all stereotyping bad is just more political correctness rhetoric being shoved on today's youth.