Partitioning

[IxianMace]

I was wondering what effects that losing clusters on a computer might have. You know when you shut down the computer improperly or it crashes and resets etc, etc, and then Scandisk runs and reports 'there were an x number of lost clusters in x chains. Scandisk reclaimed those lost clusters as free space.'

Would this affect the integrity of the files on my computer, (i.e. does it warrant a format and install from scratch of everything to ensure my computer does not have corrupt files on it etc, etc, if I get lost clusters often)?

[Nyarlathotep]

Let me put it differently. I use one of my systems to test things. Generaly, not the best tests you can perform on a comp with Windows. I shut down my system improperly a lot and I never ever have lost clusters. If you frequently have lost clusters, I'd say format and keep a close eye if it happens again. If it does, you might want to think about your harddrive.

As for a format, I always recommend to do a format once or twice a year (depending on how much you use the comp and install/uninstall programs). I know a lot of people don't agree with me, but this way you ensure your comp stays fast and clean.

[IxianMace]

Well if I just shut down the computer improperly when it is idle then I'm not likely to get lost clusters. I was just downloading something when the comp froze and then reset by itself for apparently no reason. That's when I got lost clusters.

[Nyarlathotep]

If it's a one time ocurance, I wouldn't be to bothered. If you're afarid of corrupted files, I would say just to keep a close eye on things. I doubt there are any though.

[IxianMace]

So the effects of lost clusters are negligible then? It doesn't matter how many clusters are lost in how many chains then? ???

[Nyarlathotep]

So the effects of lost clusters are negligible then? It doesn't matter how many clusters are lost in how many chains then? ???

It's like I said in the beginning, if you encounter them every time, you should get a bit worried. If it just happened once, don't worry. The lost clusters probably are the file you downloaded (and got corrupted most likely, due to inproper shutdown).

Lost clusters come from several sources. Bad programs that do not close their files, programs crashes that left modified files open, system crashes and powering off the system while it is running instead of a normal shut down. This is why scandisk is ran when an abnormal shutdown occurs. Scandisk searches through the directory table and the FAT table looking for lost clusters from such errors and collects these "lost" cluster chains into lost cluster files so you can look at them and delete them (if you want them to be displayed as files, so that you might be able to view what caused it, choose convert to file, instead of deleting them).

Run Scandisk before you shut down the computer to see if it has developed any more lost clusters each day. If there are some, try to relate them back to what programs you were running. I know that some older versions of Word processors were bad about leaving such lost cluster if you just X-exited the program instead of closing it normally. Look at the text of the lost cluster chains with WordPad to see if you recognize where the data came from.

Hope it clarifies a bit...

[gryphon]

If you use a Windows versino that uses JFS you won't get a lost cluster message. Think 2K and XP also almost never have "lost cluster" error messages.

I'm using Win2K and UNIX myslef, both with JFS and sinds then never have any losts clusters [ or files for that matter ]. Before that, when using '95 or '98 the losts clusters I got where usually miscelanious programm data. Mostly temp files.

So basically, follows the Doc's advice. If you get them occasionally [ and with lower versions of Windows ] don't pannic. If the are a frequent occurance.. ... start running.. .

[IxianMace]

Ok thanks for the clarification. It funny though, I can't run the windows version of Scandisk because every time I try it says it doesn't have enough memory. I have 256Mb DDR RAM and I can only run the DOS version of Scandisk. Weird... ??? :P

[Nyarlathotep]

Ok thanks for the clarification. It funny though, I can't run the windows version of Scandisk because every time I try it says it doesn't have enough memory. I have 256Mb DDR RAM and I can only run the DOS version of Scandisk. Weird... ??? :P

They don't call me Doc for nothing :)

Problem you have could be due to the fact that your harddrive is greater then 8Gig and has small clusters size less then 8kb. Did you use any 3rd party tool to partition your drive ? If so, you might want to check with that company to see if there's an update for the program. Otherwise you need to use Microsofts fdisk to create a new partition. I'm almost certain that this is your problem, as I have encountered it several times and partitioning the harddrive using fdisk solved the issue.

[IxianMace]

Not sure about the cluster size, but my hard drive is 37.2 Gig. I haven't partitioned it at all since I got it, I don't know anything about partitioning hard drives, and what partitioning is supposed to do. Could you explain what partitioning is all about, and how to do it? What would be the benefits of partitioning my hard drive?

[Nyarlathotep]

Not sure about the cluster size, but my hard drive is 37.2 Gig. I haven't partitioned it at all since I got it, I don't know anything about partitioning hard drives, and what partitioning is supposed to do. Could you explain what partitioning is all about, and how to do it? What would be the benefits of partitioning my hard drive?

Partitioning your harddrive means you're going to devide the 37gig and create different "harddrives". To partition your harddrive, you need to run fdisk. If you do, you'll loose all your data and need to format your harddrive !

Partiotioning your harddrive (37Gig) could be done the following way:

C drive: 7 gig - Only install Windows on this drive, together with drivers.

D drive: 10 gig - Put your programs on this drive.

E drive: 10 gig - Put your games on this one.

F drive: 10 gig - Put your downloaded stuff here, documents your create, and use it as backup.

This way, if something goes wrong with you system, you only have to format your C drive and reinstall Windows. You will also have to reinstall all programs, but you will keep saved documents, downloads and any program settings (accounts of your games for example).

Running fdisk practicly speaks for itself. If yu run it, (in DOS) a menu will appear from which you can make your selection.

[IxianMace]

I have 2.30 GB I need to back up to several CD-RW cds. After I have everything backed up, should I just format my hard drive completely and then reinstall windows, then try partitioning my hard drive? Or would there be a better course of action to take?

[Nyarlathotep]

backup the stuff you want to save first. Then partition and then format.

[IxianMace]

Ok, I've saved everything that needed backing up, but for some reason I can't partition my hard drive. Whenever I try to create a new DOS partition it says: 'Not enough space to create a new DOS partition'. Maybe I'm doing something wrong? I know this may be a bit tedious, but could someone please guide me through the steps of partitioning my hard drive using fdisk? Put it step by step and in really clear and simple language, I don't want to get anything mixed up here. :-[ :- ???

[Nyarlathotep]

Saving everything first is the most important thing :)

Before you can create partitions, you need to delete the old ones. Here is a discription of the menu's options (hope it helps, if not, let me know):

Create Partitions:

FDISK allows you to create a primary DOS partition (this is the first you need to make and it will become your C drive) or logical DOS volumes. To create a logical DOS volume you must first create an extended DOS partition, since the logicals are contained within the extended partition.

With every creation, you can adjust the amount of space that's added to a drive. When you create an extended DOS partition, use all the space available. When you then create logical DOS partitions, you can adjust the amount of space used there.

Set Active Partition:

You can use FDISK to set the primary partition on your boot disk active, allowing it to boot. It's strange that FDISK doesn't do this automatically when you create the boot primary partition (since there can only be one primary DOS partition anyway), but you must do this manually in many cases. (At least FDISK warns you when no disk is set active, via a message at the bottom of the screen.)

Delete Partitions:

FDISK will let you delete partitions as well. This is the only way to change the size of a partition in FDISK. You have to delete the old one and create a new one with the new size. If you want to change the size of the primary DOS partition using FDISK you must delete every partition on the disk and start over... annoying, but necessary.

Display Partition Information:

The last option that FDISK gives is to display the partition information for the system. It will first show the primary and extended partitions and then ask you if you want to see the logical drives within the extended partition. In fact, if you want to see this information, you can just do "FDISK /STATUS" from the DOS command line. This will show you the partition information without taking you into FDISK, and therefore, you run no risk of accidentally doing something you'll wish you hadn't. Which in reality is always a good thing!

Some important points that you should keep in mind when using FDISK:

Be very Careful:

1. With just a few keystrokes, FDISK can wipe out part or all of your hard disk. Generally speaking, don't use FDISK unless you need to, and make sure you understand what you are doing before you begin.

2. Run It From DOS: Windows 95 allows you to run FDISK direct from the graphical user interface, and even while other applications are open and running. Since FDISK alters critical disk structures at a very low level, running it while files are open and other applications are using the disk is asking for trouble. To be safe, always exit to DOS ("Restart the computer in MS-DOS mode") before using FDISK (except for using "FDISK /STATUS", will work safely from within a DOS box in Windows 95/98, remember, you're not changing anything). FAT32 Support: The version of FDISK that comes with Windows 95 OEM SR2 supports the creation of partitions that use the FAT32 enhanced file system for larger volumes. Some clever person at Microsoft decided not to call it FAT32 however within this program. Instead, when you run FDISK on a system that has Windows 95 OEM SR2 installed, and a hard disk over 512 MB (the minimum for using FAT32), you will receive a message asking you if you want to "enable large disk support". If you answer "Y" then any new partitions created in that session will be FAT32 partitions. Note: It is often useful to include FDISK as one of the programs on a bootable floppy. This way you can use it when setting up new hard disks.

[IxianMace]

Ok I tried it on the old computer and managed to make a new Primary Dos partition that used 25% of the maximum space available, and a Extended Dos partition that used another 25% of the maximum space available, and then when I tried to make another one fdisk asked me to make a logical dos partition. What's a logical dos partition? Also, how would I go about splitting up my 37GB harddrive (this one, not the old computer) using fdisk, i.e. what are the steps? After I made the partitions on the old computer, I couldn't format the disk for some reason. It said: format not supported on drive x, format terminated'. I just don't get it. ??? ??? ???

[Nyarlathotep]

Don't worry, I'm still here :D

37gig:

when you've started Fdisk, do the following:

1) Delete all partitions.

2) Create a primary DOS partition of 7gig (this will be your C drive).

3) Activate the partition (you pobably will be prompted).

4) Create an extended DOS partition, maximum space (I think it's the default amount of space).

5) Create a logical DOS partition, within the extended one (it will ask you if you wish to create logical drive(s) when you've created a extended partition). For the amount for the first logical drive I would suggest to use 10 gig (this will be your D drive).

6) Create another logical drive (you probably will be prompted again automaticly) of 10 gig (this will be your E drive).

7) You've guessed it, create another logical drive of last remaining gig's (again, you probably will be prompted automaticly to do this). This will be your F drive.

I'm online with MSN if you need any further help or advise.

[IxianMace]

Ok here I am with the hard drive partitioned and reformatted, with everything back on scratch. Took me the entire afternoon to restore full functionality and all the programs and configurations settings from nothing. I can run Scandisk for windows now and it works fine. The interesting thing is that I could also install the upgraded drivers for my motherboard (check out the thread on 'Graphics Glitch'). Unfortunately, this did not help to fix the graphics glitch problem, even though it allowed me to install the drivers. Still, thanks for your help, at least the partitioning was a success. :D ;D

[Nyarlathotep]

Excellent. Remember, you'll never forget this experiance ;)