Thrilled to Death (Figuratively, of Course)...

[MikeC]

... to see this group still active.  I have been away for two (or three?) years.  Not from RRT2, but from this site.  As always, I find myself in need of a leg-up.  I have FINALLY jumped (fallen?) into the map-design pool.  I keep seeing references to a file named EDITOR.TXT but don't seem to be able to find it.  After posting this, I will look on the downloads tab, with fingers crossed.  I guess my actual question is this: does that file exist?  I have only found editor2.txt and editor3.txt in the GOG download.  I also have the RRT2 Platinum CD ... somewhere.

Thanks in advance.  I look forward to resuming some conversations with y'all.

[jeffryfisher]

21 hours ago, MikeC said:

I keep seeing references to a file named EDITOR.TXT but don't seem to be able to find it.  After posting this, I will look on the downloads tab, with fingers crossed.  I guess my actual question is this: does that file exist?  I have only found editor2.txt and editor3.txt in the GOG download.

I don't have it either. I think it must have been superseded by editor3.txt

[MikeC]

Thank you.  Having asked that, how do I figure out how to set the industry percentages in a city to make sure something appears, e.g. a weapons factory?  Can I get townhouses to appear in cities the way you did with your US History map?

[jeffryfisher]

The only sure way to have a building right where you want it is to plant it yourself, but there's a bug in the game where having a planted building can prevent anything from spawning randomly within that city/region. Somebody claimed a workaround, but I never got it to work, so I never ever plant buildings on my maps.

Instead, I set high percentages for my desired building to appear, usually in a few towns or economic regions. That doesn't guarantee that the map will always start with that building, but one is likely to appear (at least after the year that the building becomes available).

The townhouse is just another building, but it is normally allowed only on "metra" maps. To enable it on your map, you'll need to dive into the settings, find the buildings, scroll way down to townhouse and check/uncheck a box. Once enabled, you might also need to open up a few cities and give some weight to their appearance -- It has been so long that I can't recall.

[MikeC]

Once again, thank you.  I will try these and things and see if I can get them to work.

[CrownVic95]

On 1/10/2024 at 9:48 AM, jeffryfisher said:

The only sure way to have a building right where you want it is to plant it yourself, but there's a bug in the game where having a planted building can prevent anything from spawning randomly within that city/region. Somebody claimed a workaround, but I never got it to work, so I never ever plant buildings on my maps.

Instead, I set high percentages for my desired building to appear, usually in a few towns or economic regions. That doesn't guarantee that the map will always start with that building, but one is likely to appear (at least after the year that the building becomes available).

The townhouse is just another building, but it is normally allowed only on "metra" maps. To enable it on your map, you'll need to dive into the settings, find the buildings, scroll way down to townhouse and check/uncheck a box. Once enabled, you might also need to open up a few cities and give some weight to their appearance -- It has been so long that I can't recall.

You’ve posted this before and I scratched my head in puzzlement wondering where/how you got such an impression. It simply isn’t true….generally….which is not to say there aren’t isolated cases with unique circumstances where it could rear its head. RRT II has aspects of game behavior that none of us fully understand, so you might well have experienced such isolated case(s).

But that said, I have never seen the growth prevention based on planted buildings to which you refer. This post prompted me to run another test, which I ran using my favorite Australia - 1850 WA map. I put a port and a townhouse in Bunbury, a lumber mill in Bridgetown, a steel mill in Katanning, and a tool and die factory in Narrogin. They are all “towns” that generate just one house at startup.

I found a good while back – years ago – that when you add buildings in one-house towns, game generation omits that one house. Leaves it barren but for the added building. In this test I just began, I planted a replacement house in Katanning, but left Bridgetown, Narrogin, and Bunbury bare of houses, except for Bunbury’s planted townhouse.

Bottom line is this. I began yesterday in 1870. Now it is 1882 and Bridgetown and Narrogin have both added houses where they had none. Katanning has added a house to its 1 planted, so now has 2. Bunbury is busier business-wise and has added 2 houses to its planted townhouse and thus now has metropolis level demand. The game begins with Perth as the only metropolis and it’s a major milestone – a big leap forward – to grow another town to demand beyond passengers and mail. Always a celebration.

This is the first example I’ve observed of a town growing to metropolis level beginning with just a townhouse. It takes 4 houses to reach that level normally, but it only takes 2 added to a townhouse. Interesting and very logical. Phil’s attention to fine detail throughout the game never ceases to impress me.

Anyway, I’ve done lots of planting and it has never stifled growth.  

 

[jeffryfisher]

Your experience may be different, but that doesn't make mine untrue, just not universal. Also: I'm not the only developer who has run into this phenomenon and tried to figure out a workaround -- Our discussions should be in the archives back around ~2010.

There must be some tangent factor at work (some map-wide setting?) that makes some maps amenable to planted buildings while other maps aren't. I know that the original 1950 Australia map (one of my favorites) starts with an auto plant outside Melbourne that doesn't disturb the city generation. However, every port I ever placed on my US History map killed the entire city -- permanently.

Besides guaranteeing port trade at a couple key coastal cities (New York for the Northern States and Charleston for the South), I had wanted to create at least one inland port on the Mississippi River. Using map-editing tools, I could create a patch of water at St Louis and place a port, but then St Louis failed to launch. I spent entirely too many days trying various configurations of city placement, water, port placement and reserved cells, but nothing worked. I abandoned the effort, St Louis generates normally, and I warn other developers that planting buildings can stifle city generation -- You can try it and maybe get lucky, but make sure you test it before you invest time playing only to discover too late that a key metro area is barren.

YMMV

[CrownVic95]

17 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

Your experience may be different, but that doesn't make mine untrue, just not universal. Also: I'm not the only developer who has run into this phenomenon and tried to figure out a workaround -- Our discussions should be in the archives back around ~2010.

There must be some tangent factor at work (some map-wide setting?) that makes some maps amenable to planted buildings while other maps aren't. I know that the original 1950 Australia map (one of my favorites) starts with an auto plant outside Melbourne that doesn't disturb the city generation. However, every port I ever placed on my US History map killed the entire city -- permanently.

Besides guaranteeing port trade at a couple key coastal cities (New York for the Northern States and Charleston for the South), I had wanted to create at least one inland port on the Mississippi River. Using map-editing tools, I could create a patch of water at St Louis and place a port, but then St Louis failed to launch. I spent entirely too many days trying various configurations of city placement, water, port placement and reserved cells, but nothing worked. I abandoned the effort, St Louis generates normally, and I warn other developers that planting buildings can stifle city generation -- You can try it and maybe get lucky, but make sure you test it before you invest time playing only to discover too late that a key metro area is barren.

YMMV

Final comment on this subtopic.......

I qualified my "isn't true" comment in the same sentence. I don't doubt or discount your observation. My issue is that your wording implies an expectation rather than a possible, but rare exception under unique circumstances. Especially when you term it "a bug in the game". 

Who knows why you observed what you did. But it was the exception and not the rule. It is probably next to impossible to design a map editor that will accommodate and respond in desired fashion to every possible mod conceived in the human mind.

Plant your townhouses, Mike. In all likelihood, the only effect you'll see is accelerated revenue and growth. 👍