Countering very early rushes...

[ImpSard]

Any thoughts? I just can't seem to figure it out. Atreides forces just seem way too weak to counter it, especially in QM. Machine gun turrets and kindjals work, but I never seem to pe able to pump enough of both so that I can defend both my spice fields and my base.

A good Hark player will send a bunch of buzzsaws and a missile tank (if he gets one from the start) and infantry (a few lt. inf, troopers, and flamethrowers). The infantry and buzzsaws take out your few kindjals and destroy your m. gun turrets quick, then retreat to your spice fields and stay put. Teamed up with a missle tank, they'll be taking out your harvys real fast.

Against Ordos, a mix of lastanks, dust scouts, and maybe even a kobra they got from the beginning seem to total an Atreides base. The kobra will deploy and kill your kindjals, the lastanks will kill your mino or two, and the scouts will kill any other infantry.

You can't build anything after they attack, because your harvys are gone.

Any strategies to stop these early rushes dead in their tracks?

[Navaros]

Any thoughts? I just can't seem to figure it out. Atreides forces just seem way too weak to counter it, especially in QM. Machine gun turrets and kindjals work, but I never seem to pe able to pump enough of both so that I can defend both my spice fields and my base.

A good Hark player will send a bunch of buzzsaws and a missile tank (if he gets one from the start) and infantry (a few lt. inf, troopers, and flamethrowers). The infantry and buzzsaws take out your few kindjals and destroy your m. gun turrets quick, then retreat to your spice fields and stay put. Teamed up with a missle tank, they'll be taking out your harvys real fast.

Against Ordos, a mix of lastanks, dust scouts, and maybe even a kobra they got from the beginning seem to total an Atreides base. The kobra will deploy and kill your kindjals, the lastanks will kill your mino or two, and the scouts will kill any other infantry.

You can't build anything after they attack, because your harvys are gone.

Any strategies to stop these early rushes dead in their tracks?

If you are playing Quickmatch and they attack you in under 3 minutes, quit. You will lose no points. Serves them right for rushing Atreides before he can put up a reasonable defense if you ask me.

Keep your starting Mino alive. That is absolutely essential. A common tactic is to build bikes and put them all around your Mino so (hopefully) the Hark missile tank will be killed before it can fire at your Mino. If you can keep your starting Mino in the middle of the fray and make sure the starting Hark missile tank can't fire at it, you're in good shape. If your starting Mino dies by a rusher and you do not quit, kiss yourself good-bye because you have lost.

Getting kinjals fast can work wonders. They can mess up Hark real good. As long as he is not smart enough to bring an Inkvine into the rush, if you can anticipate where he will be coming and deploy kinjal before he gets there, he will lose most of his units pretty fast. Surround kinjal with bikes so they can't be run over very easily. Note: the very best Hark players will rush you with Inkvines as well, and this strategy is, in my opinion, virtually *impossible* to counter when it is used by someone who can move his units efficiently (and right now I am number 3 on the ATR ladder, I am certainly far from the best, but I do not suck either so my opinion is not un-qualified when I say that) so if you use kinjals, *pray* he doesn't bring Inkvines and *know* how to use them.

You are right that you can't defend both your spice and your base. If you try to defend your base at the start, you're dead. Concentrate most of your defense near your spice, hopefully it won't be *too* far from the entrance of your base, though on maps where it is, you're SOL. Atreides have huge mobility issues and that's just the way it is. The best you can do is try to place your units in such a way that he will be *forced* to engage them before entering your base, though this is not always possible.

Some players use light infantry against Hark, that might work too, if you can make sure they don't get run over.

Get Fedaykin early. Especially againt Ordos. Lots of average Ordos players don't know the importance of the Dust Scouts, so they will try to rush you with just laser tanks. If you have Fedaykin and they try to rush you with just laser tanks, you will stop them easily. Sard Elites are really good for killing lasertank-obsessed players also.

[emprworm]

I too, believed somewhat as you did. I thought that atr was a horrible rush defense house. Then one day I teamed with a guy named Harkdawg on spice bowl. Low money (8-10k i think), no prebuilt, and no starting units. I was ordos, he was atreides. Our opponents were both harkonnen. I remember thinking since my partner was atreides, "Ok Dawg, I hope I dont have to come rescue you". We started the game and I'm dumping out dusties and some gas with a few mortar infantry. After making my first refinery, I decide to run down the map and see how Dawg is doing, thinking for sure he's going to need some backup. But lo and behold, he was already finishing up a hark guy. Unbelievable- how in the world does Atreides RUSH harkonnen?? Surely it was a fluke! So I team with him for 3 more games. (ask him we played several games together- he probably will remember me). EVERY SINGLE TIME, this guy playing Atreides is RUSHING Harkonnen and Ordos and demolishing them. He is the most aggressive atreides player I have ever seen. I watched him very very close. Now I share with you what I learned from Dawg.As atreides, the best way to defend vs. rush is not to set up a defense (like I used to think). The best defense vs. rush is to rush!! Basically, "Rush or be rushed!" If I get more time, I will put Dawgs atreides rush up on my website sometime (i haven't updated it in a while) :(The jist of it is this: barracks, factory, refinery. Dump out a bunch of infantry. Do not rally point the infantry, keep them close to the barracks. Build fac adjacent to barracks. Dump out 10 (minimum) sandbikes. Sandbikes and infantry are mixed together like a "crap stew". Rush this garbage the moment you have 5-6 bikes. GOAL: BLOCK your opponents factory. ONce your opponents factory is blocked by sandbikes, you are certain to win the game unless your opponents teammate runs down to help, in which case YOUR TEAMMATE will launch his attack on the other guys (now empty) base.

[Seal89999]

[quote author=Navaros

If you are playing Quickmatch and they attack you in under 3 minutes, quit. You will lose no points. Serves them right for rushing Atreides before he can put up a reasonable defense if you ask me.

Keep your starting Mino alive. That is absolutely essential. A common tactic is to build bikes and put them all around your Mino so (hopefully) the Hark missile tank will be killed before it can fire at your Mino. If you can keep your starting Mino in the middle of the fray and make sure the starting Hark missile tank can't fire at it, you're in good shape. If your starting Mino dies by a rusher and you do not quit, kiss yourself good-bye because you have lost.

Getting kinjals fast can work wonders. They can mess up Hark real good. As long as he is not smart enough to bring an Inkvine into the rush, if you can anticipate where he will be coming and deploy kinjal before he gets there, he will lose most of his units pretty fast. Surround kinjal with bikes so they can't be run over very easily. Note: the very best Hark players will rush you with Inkvines as well, and this strategy is, in my opinion, virtually *impossible* to counter when it is used by someone who can move his units efficiently (and right now I am number 3 on the ATR ladder, I am certainly far from the best, but I do not suck either so my opinion is not un-qualified when I say that) so if you use kinjals, *pray* he doesn't bring Inkvines and *know* how to use them.

You are right that you can't defend both your spice and your base. If you try to defend your base at the start, you're dead. Concentrate most of your defense near your spice, hopefully it won't be *too* far from the entrance of your base, though on maps where it is, you're SOL. Atreides have huge mobility issues and that's just the way it is. The best you can do is try to place your units in such a way that he will be *forced* to engage them before entering your base, though this is not always possible.

Some players use light infantry against Hark, that might work too, if you can make sure they don't get run over.

Get Fedaykin early. Especially againt Ordos. Lots of average Ordos players don't know the importance of the Dust Scouts, so they will try to rush you with just laser tanks. If you have Fedaykin and they try to rush you with just laser tanks, you will stop them easily. Sard Elites are really good for killing lasertank-obsessed players also.

Nav thats just ur tactic that u use if the enemy has the upperhand in the beginning and u go OMG hes winning i still have time to quit and u quit. The people you play in qm prob think of that as a waist of time and thats all ur doing if you play qm actually play the game. If u had any skill you would play it out till death. Like most good players do. Only pussys quit in the first 3 mins

[Devastator_Mech]

Narv is a dumbass anyway, just remember: "DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR".

[GhostHunter]

I want to make this clear to you Nav why everyone 'seems to hate you' its because: You insult, call people cheaters, say things are unbeatable, say strats are unbeatable, talk shit, say units need to be downgraded when they dont, have bad tactics ( aka under 3 min if he rush when u Atr jus quit ), you dont look at things positivly, you duck. And a lot of other things, these were jus off the top of my head ;D. utnil next post, Vilgent.

[Devastator_Mech]

Your exactly right, for instance, i remember Narv said that Sards suck in the general forum