Anyone thought of making the the rock clefts infantry passable?

[firefly101]

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone ever tried or knows how to make the rock clefts so infantry can climb them? I think the look of them is great, but I like the vulnerability of the Rock edging. I think it would force the player to make more walls than just sections of wall and still have the nice look. I was thinking maybe one could replace the tileset for rock specials? Unless they are coded for the sprite instead of the section. There must be something telling them they are not passable.

[Fey]

2 hours ago, firefly101 said:

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone ever tried or knows how to make the rock clefts so infantry can climb them? I think the look of them is great, but I like the vulnerability of the Rock edging. I think it would force the player to make more walls than just sections of wall and still have the nice look. I was thinking maybe one could replace the tileset for rock specials? Unless they are coded for the sprite instead of the section. There must be something telling them they are not passable.

Oh yeah, all the tile attributes can be changed. The latest version of Klofkac's editor has a tileset attributes editor attached. Give it a look!
https://forum.dune2k.com/topic/28802-map-and-mission-editor-new-major-version-20-pre-release/

Can do lots of neat stuff with the tileset attributes editing.

[firefly101]

THANKS!

I have that editor, but I didn't know there was a feature for that. I took a look, and while I don't know exactly what I am doing I can see I can do some great stuff with it. I suppose once the Tileset is changed I dont have to redo each map to make it work, just the tileset?

Any advice on what settings to use will aid me in my trial and error approach!

 

 

[Fey]

2 hours ago, firefly101 said:

THANKS!

I have that editor, but I didn't know there was a feature for that. I took a look, and while I don't know exactly what I am doing I can see I can do some great stuff with it. I suppose once the Tileset is changed I dont have to redo each map to make it work, just the tileset?

Any advice on what settings to use will aid me in my trial and error approach!

Nothing will totally break a map in an "I will always crash the game way." They're pretty self-explanatory. I believe the tileset attributes editor can be pulled up with ctrl + Q. And that's correct, it ONLY edits the tileset attributes, which will affect maps you build in the gameplay sense at least, but not in how they're structured. You know what I mean, yeah?

Uhh... besides the obvious infantry-related stuff, I'm not sure what I'd add. If ya have more specific questions, then I'll be glad to try to answer those

[firefly101]

I think I found what I wanted. I used the setting to ADD and picked Infantry can pass and rough rock 50% for the Clefts. This seemed to work the best since the Infantry is slowed down by it but can still move through them.

But it will require some map changes as Bases are now exposed like in Dune2. Though I do have to say it looks nice as the AI has trouble with a lot of the Clefts and gets scattered out so the Base defenses can pick them off. Now you have to watch all areas since my mod only uses Infantry and Air.

One small question, has anyone been able to give Ornithopters to Ordos or Harkonnen? I tried using other buildings but the units produce but cannot be used. When I give access to the Atreides High tech building it works for the others, but the Atreides High Tech factory cannot be placed in the editor for the other houses, but can be built in game by the player, but the AI has to have the building already in the missions unless I do a Practice AI. I made the AT High tech all that is needed to build them. When I try to use other buildings like Research Center or Light factory they build but cannot be used. Same when I give Ordos or Hark and make their High Tech factory to use the AT version I can build but not use. Weird bugs, I hope there is a way around as I was thinking maybe its good to give the other 2 houses Ormithopters.

Edited August 9, 2020 by firefly101

[Cm_blast]

6 hours ago, firefly101 said:

but the Atreides High Tech factory cannot be placed in the editor for the other houses, but can be built in game by the player, but the AI has to have the building already in the missions unless I do a Practice AI.

You can place the building for any houses: In fact, you can even have both the Atreides and the non-Atreides at the same time. It's the most simple solution although the AI/player won't be able to rebuild the building if destroyed... 

6 hours ago, firefly101 said:

Weird bugs, I hope there is a way around as I was thinking maybe its good to give the other 2 houses Ormithopters.

A work around could be to make the non Atreides HTF to behave as the Atreides HTF using Tibed, so all the houses will have a building called "Atreides HTF" or better, in reverse. Your could make the Atreides HTF to behave as the normal version, and then the ornithopters needing to have the normal version, With this the Atreides won't have a building called "Atreides High Tech factory" but simply "High Tech factory", but that's a good exchange for having everyelse with thopters.

On my Ixian campaign I did this workaround as the Sandworm (Side) cannot build carryalls for some weird bug, so I made the workaround and sandworm (side), although it's will build every Atreides building possible, the HIgh Tech Factory it won't be called "Atreides HTF", but still can build both carryall and ornithopters.

[firefly101]

Hmm, My version 2.0 beta of the editor doesn't let me place Atreides High tech factory for Anyone but Atreides and the high Tech factory cannot be placed for Atreides. The editor also doesn't let me place Sardaukar for Mercs etc. I also cannot place Grenadiers for any of the houses, even though I made them a new unit that Ordos can use. If the editor would let me place Atreides High Tech for Hark and Ordos I think that would work. As it is now because of my changes when I try to use those buildings to place the game gives and error about not having the building available.

My work around was simple I made the Behavior of the building be AT High Tech, and then I had to change byte 92 from 9 to 10 matching the AT Hi Tech building. When I did that the game is allowing me to build that building for the houses and produce and use Ornithopters. But the Editor will not allow me to place Atreides buildings and when I try to place the Regular High Tech I get a crash when map is loaded.

So right now I have everything working except only the player for Ordos and Hark can build the Factory. When I tried to make the High Tech Factory to alone make Ornithopters I could make them, but I could not use them. Also the editor will NOT allow me place regular High Tech factory for Atreides. 

Is there a NEW version of the editor? I thought I was using the latest version  D2kEditorv2.0pre1NEWER ver.zip

There is a lot of newer stuff that is not listed properly so some of us are using older programs because we can't find the newer on this site.

 

Thank you.

Edited August 10, 2020 by firefly101

[Cm_blast]

1 hour ago, firefly101 said:

Hmm, My version 2.0 beta of the editor doesn't let me place Atreides High tech factory for Anyone but Atreides and the high Tech factory cannot be placed for Atreides. The editor also doesn't let me place Sardaukar for Mercs etc. I also cannot place Grenadiers for any of the houses, even though I made them a new unit that Ordos can use. If the editor would let me place Atreides High Tech for Hark and Ordos I think that would work. As it is now because of my changes when I try to use those buildings to place the game gives and error about not having the building available.

Editor's klof allows to add whatever unit or building for whatever faction you want, including the 4 palaces and all the special units. However, he is using a custom tiledata.bin which I think it was the one that, if you are on vanilla tiledata.bin, you cannot place those buildings (Atreides HTF for anything but Atreides/Fremen) or just simply Sietchs for Imperial-Fremen.

But I think this has to do with the custom tiledata.bin included on the editor that should be applied into the game. But it is really weird.

1 hour ago, firefly101 said:

Is there a NEW version of the editor? I thought I was using the latest version  D2kEditorv2.0pre1NEWER ver.zip

it is weird that you cannot add all the stuff, it is something we have been doing even from early versions, even from the 1.2 editor, and that one was release 5 years ago and all those things were already available.

Try to copy the tiledata.bin from the editor into your game (do a back up if you want); give it a try. It could be possible that you copy the tiledata.bin from your game into the editor? That could be a plausible, as the vanilla game "don't have" those things.

And yes, "D2kEditorv2.0pre1" it's the most actual version right now and the one I am using to do a new campaign so it is working for me.

1 hour ago, firefly101 said:

There is a lot of newer stuff that is not listed properly so some of us are using older programs because we can't find the newer on this site.

He is still adding more and more stuff, sometimes fast, sometimes slower. Not until the author consider good enough a "stable" version of the editor I cannot add it into the index for a proper "download this";

But again, even with the 5 years old 1.2 version...

So it's not really something new. Harkonnen sonic tanks, mercenary Fremen... Or grenadiers for everybody.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Cm_blast

[Fey]

Sounds like you have an outdated tiledata.bin, firefly. TILEDATA.BIN Try this one.

[firefly101]

Hello,

Thank you! It was a tileset that needed to be installed in my Bin folder. Mine was 1998. I copied over and now I CAN place the buildings. I think they will rebuild the building but I am not sure? I gave them ability to build the Building that should work right?

 

I got to say my mod is shaping up nice. Thanks to help I am getting here and the wonderful tools, I still need to figure how to make the menu adjusted for my 1024x768 background. but....

Its a different experience than you guys are use to, you can get hit from all sides, Spamming buildings isn't as important as planning defense and counter attack. Air is deadly because of infantry only, but bases are more strong since there is no armour. Image 120 Sardaukar units with 120 Harkonnen Troopers hitting your base! lol Game feels different without vehicles, but I wanted something different as there are so many good mods already based off of the original design.

[Cm_blast]

8 hours ago, firefly101 said:

Thank you! It was a tileset that needed to be installed in my Bin folder. Mine was 1998. I copied over and now I CAN place the buildings. I think they will rebuild the building but I am not sure? I gave them ability to build the Building that should work right?

It can be rebuilded if the Ai has the proper building (owned); for example, on the original game, that Harkonnen mission you capture the Atreides CY; you can build and rebuild the building all you want; so, if you could build the building in the first place, then you can rebuild it later.

If you want to give a full test of what you can and cannot, you can prepare a playground map as I do.
Just a big rectangle rock area, give yourself 999.999 credits, 3 CY and 20 windtraps, and then you can play as that side on easy difficulty (it will build faster) to see exactly what that side can do; in buildings and units.

8 hours ago, firefly101 said:

Its a different experience than you guys are use to, you can get hit from all sides, Spamming buildings isn't as important as planning defense and counter attack. Air is deadly because of infantry only, but bases are more strong since there is no armour. Image 120 Sardaukar units with 120 Harkonnen Troopers hitting your base! lol Game feels different without vehicles, but I wanted something different as there are so many good mods already based off of the original design.

It is going to be interesting. Although I am thinking if you are going to raise cost of the units or reducing the amount you can get. Unless you don't care that much (in this case having much less spice available so the player don't overharvest for no reason... dunno. I'll see when you start showing more stuff.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Cm_blast

[firefly101]

Hello,

Good idea on testing.

On the mod, there will most likely be less spice and more in pockets. Also the cost of buildings and power have been adjusted slightly. Also though the AI will be able to build units with no delay so they can make some nice sized armies to attack. The goal is to have waves of attacks, whether for spice or attacks on buildings. So far its playing out pretty good. Game plays rather well with all infantry and could be said to be harder since you have no tanks to counter the infantry like before. Air power is more deadly and useful now. here is a change log I am making for the mod. It was made for myself, but I have seen posts where some wanted to play with Infantry only, the real challenge is balance.

Change Log 1.0:
===============

1. Important: Full game included with Mod nothing else needed, High Rez options in .INI File, Also Menu Selection. Mod set for 1024x768,
but can do many different resolutions. Movies are included with this mod so its the full game complete with nice High Rez options.
Menu Selection only the Atreides Test Map works, the other 2 don't so don't click them! All Original Campaign maps work fine.

2. The Queue Patch is also installed so one can queue units while building.

3. Pallets colors now Changed, Emperor now Black, Atreides Tan, Harkonnen Dark Red, Ordos Dark Green, Mercs Yellow,
and Smugglers Orange. Another pallet is included that makes the Atreides Dark Blue in the BIN folder.
 
4. Sardaukar Infantry more Tough than before and now match the movie color of being Black.

5. ALL VEHICLES have been REMOVED for gameplay, except Harvester. This is to make more like the 1984 movie which was infantry focused.

6. Atreides Use only Infantry, with exception of Fremen warriors.

7. Harkonnen use Troopers that now use Heavy Machine gun instead of Missiles and have new firing animations to match machinegun use.

8. Ordos, Mercs, and Smugglers use Guild Mercenaries, which look like Sardaukar, but are not as strong. They have the firepower of
Harkonnen Troopers, and the Health of the Fremen.

9. Emperor can only build Sardaukar troops.

10. Wind Traps now have a 2x2 footprint and no longer 2x3.

11. Medium Turrets now use Very heavy machine gun, since there are no vehicles this change balances gameplay. They have new
Sprites to reflect their change. (Thanks Fey!)

12. Gun Turrets and All Infantry all have slightly faster rate of fire

13. Campaign Maps adjusted to make harder or just better balanced for bases and infantry unit battles.

14. All land units have greater view range about double from before.

15. Player no longer can build these buildings, Light Factory, Heavy Factory, Research Center.
This was done as they were no longer needed and to simplify the menu options.

16. Atreides Fremen can now be built faster, and no longer have stealth mode since they can be made in mass.

17. Ordos Sabatour has more health & armor than before so its balanced with other houses special weapons.

18. Players can only get extra Carryalls or Harvesters from the Choam company via Starports, makes a little more realistic and challenging.
Starports will show other "OUT OF STOCK" items but the price will be prohibited.

19. Thumpers and Engineers are available from the Starport delivery.

20. No Upgrades for Barracks, Engineers now have to be purchased.

21. Ornithopters only need "Ornithopter Hanger" now, which requires an Outpost to build. Uses Light Factory Model and footprint.

22. All houses can Build Ornithopters now, giving new strategic need for Rocket turrets.

23. Tripled Ornithopter build speed from what it was.

24. Sandworms do more damage to infantry and can kill them by moving under them.

25. All Infantry is Self Healing, so they will heal over time.

26. Imperial Houses & Outposts now defend themselves with Heavy Machineguns. But Special Outposts do not.

27. Harvesters no longer crush infantry, in real life they would be too slow to be effective at running over units.

28. Harvester has stronger health than before so its not as easy to take them out with infantry.

29. Adjusted Clefts to be passable for Infantry now and move 50% less speed while climbing. Vehicles cannot pass over clefts.

 

 

 

 

[Cm_blast]

2 hours ago, firefly101 said:

On the mod, there will most likely be less spice and more in pockets. Also the cost of buildings and power have been adjusted slightly. Also though the AI will be able to build units with no delay so they can make some nice sized armies to attack. The goal is to have waves of attacks, whether for spice or attacks on buildings. So far its playing out pretty good. Game plays rather well with all infantry and could be said to be harder since you have no tanks to counter the infantry like before. Air power is more deadly and useful now. here is a change log I am making for the mod. It was made for myself, but I have seen posts where some wanted to play with Infantry only, the real challenge is balance.

Good work. Keep in going, it's going to be interesting and yeah, balance can be hard, mostly if you are working with modding.

2 hours ago, firefly101 said:

Pallets colors now Changed, Emperor now Black, Atreides Tan, Harkonnen Dark Red, Ordos Dark Green, Mercs Yellow,
and Smugglers Orange. Another pallet is included that makes the Atreides Dark Blue in the BIN folder.
 
4. Sardaukar Infantry more Tough than before and now match the movie color of being Black.

At least try to add some kind of color for them on the minimap; because if they are pure black they will merge with the fog of war (or more like unrevealed area), and can be a bit hard to see if that area wasn't revealed or there are simply an enemy base there. Just a dark grey tone or something like this to be able to spot then slighly better on the mini-map.

2 hours ago, firefly101 said:

18. 
Starports will show other "OUT OF STOCK" items but the price will be prohibited.

I didn't get this, can you show a screenshot what this means?
unless you mean you can order combat tanks but they cost 999.999 credits.

2 hours ago, firefly101 said:

Adjusted Clefts to be passable for Infantry now and move 50% less speed while climbing. Vehicles cannot pass over clefts.

So I guess pretty much the whole terrain it's being able to be walk with infantry.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Cm_blast

[firefly101]

Hello,

On the new color I was able to make the Minimap color Purple still. I  was able to test and with a small spot on the carryalls none of the other units or buildings use that one section. So the Emperor is Black, but the MiniMap is Purple still. The Atreides Tan is dark enough to be seen, and I have a blue version for people who want the blue color.

On the Starports, Originally I tried to do a Guild Mercenary for purchase and it worked great, until the AI used it and gave me an error I was not able to solve. So I have about 5 slots used, MCV, Harvester, Carryall, Thumper, Engineer. The other 3 Slots say Out of Stock and have a high price. This may change if I am able to get more new units added without Crashes. I was thinking of adding Sardaukar available but I am not sure.

On the Infantry being able to walk almost everywhere Yes I decided while watching the AI it causes them to funnel and spread out the units causing them to be easier to be picked off. Also before it was easier to just Build walls in areas that were open, instead of the whole complex like it would be in real life. I think the change would be great for other mods also, as it would give infantry an advantage over vehicles. I just recently did this change but it has already caused some interesting results in the way I plan my base, because any area can be open to attack, but you still get the nice cleft look that looks like rock sticking out.

I really am making this mod for AI play and the AI has some issues, if 1 or 2 units at a time trickle in the Turrets will take them out with ease, but if 50+ do then they can do damage. Terrain change helps this issue and can surprise as I found the AI attacking from different areas in the same maps when I did the change.

Right now I am working on the maps, the originals have to be redone slightly and the bases for the AI especially since all areas can be attacked. The spice I think should be like Dune 2 with no spice blooms and less double spice tiles. But I also don't want to choke the AI as in one test on one of the later maps for Atreides I was hit hard, The AI took out several of my Windtraps and hit me with 100+ Sardaukar Troops, I survived but then was hit by 100+ Harkonnen Troopers! It was a lot of fun, and if you dont check the maps out first you can get caught with your pants down. I hope people play without looking at the maps in the editor...... 😉

I am even making full bases for the player, otherwise the mod may be too hard as the AI hits the player hard, the Ornithopters are a game changer, and being only infantry means scouting and defending can be a challenge. Sardaukar units are pretty tough now and Atreides has the Weakest Infantry, though Fremen can be Queued now and  build at  a rate of 15 now.

Some of you guys are really good at this game, better than myself. But I found an Infantry only mod is pretty tough, spamming units doesn't work as well as the original. I had many units for an attack and they basically got wiped out by an Air Strike. lol I do hope later if any of you give my mod a try you give me feedback if you found it too hard or too easy. But I understand most of you have other important things your doing. 🙂

I wanted to use that special Atreides map as a bonus map of when the Emperor and Harkonnen attacked the Atreides, but I want to do it right.

Here are some pictures of the menu and Starport options. You can see I STILL have the menu in the corner, I need to move it to the center but I don't know how to. The other pictures show the AI building Large armies, and again I was hit by both Airstrikes before the Sardaukar attack in the picture.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2020 by firefly101