Things you did in Dune2000 as a kid when you had plenty of time?

[Klofkac]

Dune 2000 was one of my most favourite game in my life (it was my very first strategy game I ever had) and as a kid in early 2000's, I spent really lot of hours and hours playing it. Apart from "serious" playing through campaign, where I really wanted to progress and win the missions, I spent many hours doing various pointless things, because as a kid I just could. Here I try to summarize it.

- Building a base on every buildable rock area in a map. During my early time playing Dune 2000 I had no idea how to win Harkonnen mission 4. I just defeated all Atreides base and units, and I had no idea about Fremen. On the map I found some Fremen base and I killed the soldiers, but I absolutely did not know about Sietch and that I needed to destroy them. So I ended up in unwinnable mission, and because I got bored looking around the map and figuring out what to do, I just started building MCVs and sending them to all buildable rock areas in map (including former Atreides and Fremen bases). There I built up full bases with refinery, factories etc. I was also trying to figure out how to make "independent" secondary bases that are controlled on their own, something like enemies had in other missions (buildings owned by a different side but with same allocation index). It never worked for me. I tried to do the same thing in various different missions as well.

- Related to the first point, I also tried to take over whole enemy bases with engineers (including every single enemy building). That was a bit challenging. Then I had fun building units specific to the enemy side.

- Building a "Super-Base". In various multiplayer/practice maps, the buildable rock areas were enormously huge. So I decided to build a super-base there (I remember doing that on the lower area on map 4PLAY3). I killed all enemies (leaving Harvesters) so they wouldn't annoy me. Then I started filling up the whole rock area with walls. I just built a wall and placed it on every single rock tile. Eventually I reached the data limit, not letting me build any more - it was the very first time I noticed Dune2000 had such limit. However that did not stop me. After (almost) all area was filled with walls, I started building "tunnels" in the walls, connecting various buildings and factories. I left some bigger open areas for stacking up units. So my "super-base" was actually a big labyrinth. Eventually I realized my super-base had no sense because I had no enemies to fight against. So I started playing the same map again, but before destroying the enemies, I started building exactly same super-base, looking to my previous saved game, and trying to replicate it to be exactly same. Oh good memories.

- Crate hunting and collecting bonus units. When I discovered crates in multiplayer/practice mode, I was mindblown because it brought tons of new possibilities to me. Indeed I spent lot of hours of fun hunting crates around the map, and colleting as many bonus units as I could. Stealthified raiders counted as well. I remember having collections of more than 100 bonus units. I was also very excited every time I got a devastator. Sometimes I had fun self-destructing the devastators, killing lot of other bonus units around them. Later, when I got a map editor, I created a special small map (32x32 was smallest I could create with editors back in the day) which was tailored for crate-hunting. Basically it was empty open map with a rock area only for parking the bonus units.

- Playing practice mode on 2-player maps with 6 players. I just loved when 3 different players started up building a base on a single rock area, and then watching the strongest side eventually destroying the others and taking over the whole area. I was usually the strongest, and I liked playing around with the other AI players like "a cat with a mouse". For example I was blocking every place where they would build a building - they placed a concrete, then I moved my units on it so they were forced to a building somewhere else. Or I did not let them build any other building than a refinery and wind traps - always when they built barracks I destroyed them. Or letting them build barracks, but leaving my units contiuously shoot in front of their barracks, instantly killing every new unit they trained. I remember my most favourite map where I did this was 2PLAY7.

- Creating stupid maps and playing them. Once I got a map editor for Dune 2000, I created a few "serious" good maps, but then I created also lot of pointless/stupid/crazy maps with un-realistic terrain. Like blank maps with plain rock area or big rectangle-shaped areas, too small area for an enemy where they could not build any buildings etc etc. I mostly remember about a map almost full of thick spice area, where I built hundred refineries and harvesters and tried to collect as much spice as possible. It was increasing so fast I even did not manage to empty silo capacity with the staport trick fast enough.

- Playing around with the Trainer program. That is pretty self-explanatory. Once I found out about the Trainer, another big area of possibilities was unfold. I had obviously most fun with instant build cheat. You can imagine I believe.

PS: I played Dune 2000 and did most of the things I described with my younger brother.

What about you? Did you do similar things? Or anything else?

Edited August 21, 2019 by Klofkac

[Cm_blast]

3 hours ago, Klofkac said:

I was also trying to figure out how to make "independent" secondary bases that are controlled on their own, something like enemies had in other missions (buildings owned by a different side but with same allocation index). It never worked for me. I tried to do the same thing in various different missions as well.

You know, before I started doing my own missions and campaigns I though similar as you, but the opposite; I always feel that Harkonnen having 3 different bases (last map from Atr map) was pointless, since although they build faster they are still restricted to a single queue, how wrong I was.

3 hours ago, Klofkac said:

- Related to the first point, I also tried to take over whole enemy bases with engineers (including every single enemy building). That was a bit challenging. Then I had fun building units specific to the enemy side.

Same, usually on my +4º play through the game or so. Controlling Sardaukar were so unique.

3 hours ago, Klofkac said:

- Playing practice mode on 2-player maps with 6 players. I just loved when 3 different players started up building a base on a single rock area, and then watching the strongest side eventually destroying the others and taking over the whole area

Yep, I did too, but not exactly as a kid (since back then I copy the game for a cousing and the practice didn't work at all, even although the campaigns worked fine with that CD).

3 hours ago, Klofkac said:

- Creating stupid maps and playing them. Once I got a map editor for Dune 2000, I created a few "serious" good maps, but then I created also lot of pointless/stupid/crazy maps with un-realistic terrain. Like blank maps with plain rock area or big rectangle-shaped areas, too small area for an enemy where they could not build any buildings etc etc. I mostly remember about a map almost full of thick spice area, where I built hundred refineries and harvesters and tried to collect as much spice as possible. It was increasing so fast I even did not manage to empty silo capacity with the staport trick fast enough.

I cannot say this at all since when I was Kidd internet barely was a thing, so no editors or anything.

But I totally remember my brother filling the map with like 12 big groups of units. he send one almost with no strategy, being killed and then waiting 15-20 minutes just building more units and I was saying "but... you already have more than enough" and he responded "not enough".

I did the opposite, producing 5 light vehicles and 5 heavy vehicles on the factories (so they don't spread that much outside the entry of the factory) and sending to attack. Building more in the meanwhile but still, never more than those 5-5.

Also something else I totally remember it's having a "practical" base. Even although the campaign's room to build it's so low (the Ordos map to gather 15.000 credits it's rough) but remember leaving enough room to the units to move freely and, of course, being a good looking base, complemented with walls that I didn't ever needed, including filling all with concretes for no reason (sometimes I couldn't even build the Ix or the High tech due the misuse of available rock area xD).

Also, The Harkonnen map with the modified outpost... no building the traditional outpost "because it's pointless having 2" and then wondering why I couldn't build the traditional tech: The High-tech factory and the Ixian centre. Took me a while to realize that I still need the normal outpost.

Oh, and once... I downloaded the game in german... and lost 25 minutes of progress because I was suppose to capture an enemy barracks but I destroyed instead =(.

Pd: you won't understand, but as a Kid I laughed at the "misión complida" typo in the spanish version.

Oh, and although this is not "as a kid" times (because my kid times were with Dune 2, which I also have interesting weird things I did, like winning a map only using saboteurs because the spice of the whole map was depleted; took me 8 hours to win the map); but yeah, dune 2 was my very first RTS game, and blow my mind with the visuals, not just the graphics but the set up of a desert planet, the spice and those gigan worms.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Cm_blast

[X3M]

I tried to Sim Base once. No fun if you can't close from all sides.

I tried to empty the Spice on a big map. Of course I failed. Bad game design from my point of view. Reached 200.000.000 credits after a while. The AI? Got a couple of units imprisoned.

I tried to empty the Spice on a small map. Same story.

I have experimented on having forces on all the fields in order to kill any Harvester and Carryall. Simply not attacking the bases. Eventually the AI gave up, lolz.

[Klofkac]

On 8/21/2019 at 11:21 PM, Cm_blast said:

Also something else I totally remember it's having a "practical" base. Even although the campaign's room to build it's so low (the Ordos map to gather 15.000 credits it's rough) but remember leaving enough room to the units to move freely and, of course, being a good looking base, complemented with walls that I didn't ever needed, including filling all with concretes for no reason (sometimes I couldn't even build the Ix or the High tech due the misuse of available rock area xD).

Oh yes, in the early time playing Dune2000 I always built buildings next to each others, without spaces left between the buildings, so I had very compact bases (or was able to build 4 refineries and other crazy things). But later, I learned to build bases with buildings scattered around the rock area with large spaces between them. I just tried to mimic how the enemy bases looked like. Not really for practical reasons, but pretty much for visual reasons. I just wanted my base to look nicely.

On 8/21/2019 at 11:21 PM, Cm_blast said:

Also, The Harkonnen map with the modified outpost... no building the traditional outpost "because it's pointless having 2" and then wondering why I couldn't build the traditional tech: The High-tech factory and the Ixian centre. Took me a while to realize that I still need the normal outpost.

Exactly same for me. When I first played Harkonnen Mission 5 I had no reason to build a regular outpost. Then, in Mission 6, after I built one, I got very surprised to see so many new buildings available (IX, Hi-Tech and Starport). When I played mission 5 again later I always built regular outpost and then sold it immediately. That is IMO a bad design from the game developers. Another bad design is the pointless Hi-Tech factory (except Harkonnen mission 5 and Atreides one from Mission 7). I learned very soon not to build it and use Starport to get carryalls.

1 hour ago, X3M said:

I tried to Sim Base once. No fun if you can't close from all sides.

 

1 hour ago, X3M said:

Got a couple of units imprisoned.

Not understanding this, can you explain what you mean?

 

[Cm_blast]

18 hours ago, X3M said:

I tried to empty the Spice on a big map. Of course I failed. Bad game design from my point of view. Reached 200.000.000 credits after a while. The AI? Got a couple of units imprisoned.

I feel like they were planning to make the spice not as infinite as was suppose to be. The blooms with the 41 numbers only last 9 explosions, so if the map last for 10-20 min (assuming you are harvesting often that area) the spice will be gone for good.
However, there are blooms 42, 43 and 44 that last simply too much (I think the 42 last for 19 explosions, which it's tons of time even if you pop them as soon as they appear) and don't ever know the other two (but last even longer).

18 hours ago, X3M said:

I have experimented on having forces on all the fields in order to kill any Harvester and Carryall. Simply not attacking the bases. Eventually the AI gave up, lolz.

Dune 2000 it's a pretty fair AI. Dune 2 and the other C&C the AI cheats a lot doing things that not a human can do; heh, even in Dune Emperor the AI cheats with the amount of money they get per harv (maybe not in normal, but he does on hard), but Dune 2000 Ai it's a really fair enemy. No unlimited money, no buildings out of nowhere, nothing fishy, they just behave as another human player with the same limitations.

Ps: I did that on the original C&C game, which I played like 1 year ago and beat it for the first time just simply doing that, making the enemy to gave up (since just 1 harv it's enough to replenish the whole refs/silos storage).

17 hours ago, Klofkac said:

Oh yes, in the early time playing Dune2000 I always built buildings next to each others, without spaces left between the buildings, so I had very compact bases (or was able to build 4 refineries and other crazy things). But later, I learned to build bases with buildings scattered around the rock area with large spaces between them. I just tried to mimic how the enemy bases looked like. Not really for practical reasons, but pretty much for visual reasons. I just wanted my base to look nicely.

In my case, I made compact bases... until the Death Hand from Dune 2 took out my 2 refs and my CY in a single strike and was forced to start the map over; since then, I spread those buildings and rush the heavy fact, even if I don't do the upgrades (which have 4 in total) just in case a MCV was needed (in fact, I recorded recently that game for a youtube channel and that happened to me on that run).

But yes, visuals more than being practical XD; I still refuse to not build concretes unless I am playing a custom campaign in which the maps are really long with tons of enemies, there I may build multiple facts withouth even the concrete.

17 hours ago, Klofkac said:

Exactly same for me. When I first played Harkonnen Mission 5 I had no reason to build a regular outpost. Then, in Mission 6, after I built one, I got very surprised to see so many new buildings available (IX, Hi-Tech and Starport). When I played mission 5 again later I always built regular outpost and then sold it immediately. That is IMO a bad design from the game developers. Another bad design is the pointless Hi-Tech factory (except Harkonnen mission 5 and Atreides one from Mission 7). I learned very soon not to build it and use Starport to get carryalls.

I feel like a few of those things are because they rushed the game a bit; dunno, the game has nothing new to show and if you release the game too late won't sell that good; you can even see that on the Atreides, I think, mission 2, in 1 version of the 2 if you build either barracks or the light fact the "do upgrades to build other stuff" appears, but on the other version it's missing from the light fact.

Or even at the very last mission on ATreides, the enemy it's actually on 97% energy; I doub if that was totally intentional (there are 4 AIs, but I always find this version like 7/10 in a difficulty scale compared to the 10/10 of the other).

And about the HTF; that's probably because they wanted to keep the same Dune 2 path; In dune 2 the HTF it's as useless if you build the starport, which there you can buy units for even a 50% discount of more (Quads are useless on the last level but buying 10 for only 900 credits (when they should cost 2000) it's a amazing deal).

In Dune 2 half of the buildings are not even necesary; the light fact it's needed to produce the heavy one, but besides that it has no purpose; for any trike/quad you may use for explore you can use the starport to get a discount, buy a bunch of them, explore the map and just use your money on siege tanks, missile tanks and special tanks (and barracks/Wor the same, the heavy fact it's the only that matters).

But hey, at least they bring the mercs! They are "present" (you can make them appear without any editor at all) on the dune 2 game, but don't appear on the actual vanilla campaign due limitations I guess (but if you edit the file and change "atreides" for "Mercenary" they will appear on game). I think somebody told me that the deviators on dune 2 turning everything in green (even if the Harkonnen make use of them) was another reason to not make the mercs to not appear, they may be using the deviator too, maybe.

Ps: On dune 2 for the megadrive the HTF it's a must have (well... not exactly); but on that game they cramped together both light and heavy fact (you can produce from quads to devas with the same building) and they did the same with the Ix centre and the HTF, so if you want to have the special tank you need the HTF.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Cm_blast

[X3M]

Sim base building
Sim base building means, that you make a base just for the looks instead of practise. Just like how the AI has been designed. This goes very easy in C&C TD, TS, RA and RA2. It is even possible with WC2 in multiplayer (or the map editor, I did that much more). Point given is that walls are necessary to make it more like an AI base. Warzone2100 and AoW3 allows this, SIM base building, as well.

Prisoners
When walls are involved. You can make a prison for certain units. These are often simple mini-gunners or rifle men.

Blooms
Never knew about the blooms being different. But it makes sense. I guess the biggest maps had like a super long time. Perhaps add 10 pops every higher tier of bloom? I never saw them disappearing on the map that I played.