【Release】 Glory_Awaits Campaign- Ordos Part

[MattBaker]

Hi, this is the Ordos part of my campaign. If you play through from the first HK part to the final OD part, you may find the improvement of maps

It's a pity that I cannot add music to it, because the audio converter (other forms to .aud) doesn't work.

Enjoy!

 

Glory_Awaits_OD.zip

[Fey]

Ayy lmao

You put out new maps so fast, man. XD I really wish I had more time, I'd marathon 'em. And Cm's too, I still have a lot of stuff on the table to play through from him. I'll get around to it eventually, for sure.

Now that the Ordos campaign is done, what do you suppose you'll do now?

[MattBaker]

37 minutes ago, Fey said:

Ayy lmao

You put out new maps so fast, man. XD I really wish I had more time, I'd marathon 'em. And Cm's too, I still have a lot of stuff on the table to play through from him. I'll get around to it eventually, for sure.

Now that the Ordos campaign is done, what do you suppose you'll do now?

At first I modified the official maps so it was fast. In this package I did more jobs   hope you enjoy and no more bugs

well, that's a secret lol

[Cm_blast]

5 hours ago, MattBaker said:

Hi, this is the Ordos part of my campaign. If you play through from the first HK part to the final OD part, you may find the improvement of maps

Alright. I haven't played Dune since +1 month ago, so this new campaign it's a good moment to start over. I will probably will go the v1 path (only playing the v1 map to follow some kind of progresion) and later replaying using the v2 path.

I hope this time the player can produce something more than only light vehicles :P. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Cm_blast

[MattBaker]

3 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

Alright. I haven't played Dune since +1 month ago, so this new campaign it's a good moment to start over. I will probably will go the v1 path (only playing the v1 map to follow some kind of progresion) and later replaying using the v2 path.

I hope this time the player can produce something more than only light vehicles :P. 

No this time it's 1,2,3,4,5,...18

If you wanna play v1 you can play the odd missions  

[Cm_blast]

On 5/7/2019 at 2:21 AM, MattBaker said:

No this time it's 1,2,3,4,5,...18

If you wanna play v1 you can play the odd missions  

oooh, I saw thow now are called just 01 to 18, so I guess all the maps are they own progresion and it's mean to play them in order.

Edit:
I played a few maps already.

First map:

Spoiler

The mission it's similar to one you made in another campaign with the reinforcements, but here seems that you give the player more room to attack between waves. That's good; I had a bit of problem when the spice started to run out, but a couple of refs more and that fixed the problem (and exploding the nearby blooms).

Second map:

Spoiler

 

the map it's just the original mission (as even you said on the briefing), so overall the map it's played the same (just enemies producing more and those smugglers that can be annoing if become hostile; I tried to avoid that, in fact, I manage to lure the Atreides into them to make them loose a couple of waves.

On this map I wish you leave the "side annihilated" message, just to track which faction it's done and which one still has a harvester or a silo or anything alive.
Good thing that with the modified binaries the Ordos can produce missile tanks, and also the mercs use them, that helps.

 

Thid map:

Spoiler

 

A bit of more diversity with the details (different rocks, rifts, etc) would be better, but I got your point. It's a bit weird having the ally so near and not helping me with the Harkonnen, but I know they job it's to deal only against the Atreides; don't help them and they will eventually die.

I have problems killing the very last Hark unit; once because a lonely Hark infantry that probably you place there; and of course the other guy a bit out of reach. Good think the player keeps recieving stuff for free.

 

So far these new maps are better, more fair and with a bit of more info on the briefings and even in midgame; you are improving, so good job.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Cm_blast

[Fey]

On 5/6/2019 at 3:55 PM, MattBaker said:

At first I modified the official maps so it was fast. In this package I did more jobs   hope you enjoy and no more bugs

well, that's a secret lol

Oh yeah, those!

That's good, I think I liked your original content in the Atreides campaign the most. I'll check it out as soon as I can.

Also, since you're using mods, have you considered mapping with mine at all? Pardon me if I asked that already. I ask because I happen to be fixing up the editor specifically for use with my mod, like this:

Spoiler

So it would be easier to work with. Notably, it features three new units (pictured above; the Duelist Tank, RPG Quad, and Shock Raider), custom spritework for Combat Tanks to give them neat stripes down the sides (https://i.imgur.com/WEE8tH3.jpg), custom spritework for the Imperial ConYard and Barracks (still in progress, but implemented), and the brand-new Storm Lasher megaturret (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvXPULNk6hE).

The tileset pictured is the Heighliner Tileset, which isn't part of my mod and can in fact be used without any mods, but it is something I created.

I haven't actually done all too much with Storm Lashers yet. It appears on a few levels so far; S15 introduces it (the above video demonstration was part of the final draft of the map) and the player gets to build them on S18 (which is also a neat King-of-the-Hill section to the game where you use them to blow through a massive line of Rocket Turrets https://prnt.sc/lmf8kt). It has the potential for some really neat puzzles.

Considering how you seem to really like mapping puzzle maps, I figured I'd ask. I'd be quite interested in seeing what you'd come up with using Storm Lashers! Or the longer-ranged turrets, or wall mechanics, in my mod. Any sort of turret can be powered down, but they all have very good range. Especially the Storm Lasher. And walls block a lot more typical projectiles, too. The only units that can attack over walls are Grenadiers, Siege Tanks, Missile Tanks, Deviators, Sonic Tanks, RPG Quads (with grenades only), or Shock Raiders. And aside from that stuff, there are plenty of other re-balancing changes for fun, like Quads and Siege Tanks aren't so freakin' weak like they were in the original game. XD

If you're interested, let me know! I'll zip up my modded editor and pass it along.

[Cm_blast]

I played two more maps. Oooh yeah.Map 4;

Spoiler

 

this brings me memory since my very first campaign uses this map. On my first draft I had 3 enemy bases on different areas, more or less where you place the bases for the AI on your maps, so I still remember a bit the terraign from my old days.

I really like this map and the whole concept: a map with barely spice. There is a bit of a problem with the blooms sometimes dissapearing for no reason, but anyway; eventually they reaper and can take a bit more of spice. I like this map because you made 1 AI to have multiple factories but no windtraps, so the "building animations" on the factories gives you some urgency but the AI is not producing as fast as he looks, and that's interesting.

Also, good think that there isn't too many reinforcements on this map, and the ones present takes plenty of time to being delivered, giving me time to recover for other attacks or becuase I have no money by the lack of spice.

 

This is indeed a good map and a interesting idea.
And then map 05 (which it's O3v1); another enjoyable map.

Spoiler

 

Probably intented by you to not say which army I will recieve, so I just went up, capture the base and take out quickly the first enemy I spoted; by luck where the Harkonnen since they were going to expand, but I didn't let them.

And from there, a mix of being carefull, training a few more units and searching on the area for a few more units; I even capture the smuggler starport, did a couple of orders and sell the building. I'm glad I found the grenadiers which where totally mandatory to win the map (well, maybe not that mandatory, I still have a couple of heavy vehicles I could use to crush them); but I blow up all those imperials infantries with a bunch of grenadiers.

 

I really like this map and I appreacite that there isn't a huge amount of enemy reinforcements, so I can take my time and move around with a slowly pace but still being carefull to not die to the enemies.

After finishing the map I tried going bottom that time; I didn't replayed the map again, but it's interesting that not only the army but the position changes, it's like 2 maps in 1. well done.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Cm_blast

[Cm_blast]

More maps played.Map 06

Spoiler

 

A difficult spike, or maybe I played wrong. The area I through I was suppose to harvest it's too dangerous. Enemies coming everywhere not only because the attacks but because eventually I hit they harvest and they come.

I restarted and instead captured my ally Ref; he sold everything, but the map become much more easy, I had all the room for me and the AI only send the traditional attacks. Maybe I could just use that part of the map to harvest, although it's a bit afar from my base, but whatever, I tried doing this and I won even with any ally so, fine.

 

Map 07

Spoiler

I through this map would be much harder, but selling the repair pad and placing a heavy fact instead make the map not too hard to beat. Gathering some and using those walls over there to produce a barrack so I didn't need to move a slow eengineer from 1 side to the map to the other, so at the end I won very easily.

Map 08

Spoiler

 

Interesting map, with all those enemy harvesters trying to steal my spice. I took out the Atreides and then I was "wait, why there are more Atreides coming" and I saw that CY out of nowhere; well; took me a while but finally blocked the Atreides once for all for coming again.

I am Glad that once I took enough imperial Harvesters half of 1 of his bases sell everything. From there was just a matter of time because the others barely could produce units.

But yeah; I lost several buildings over the time, because with the enemies everywhere I couldn't paid attention to everything (although most the time it's just 2 troopers or 1 quad doing the damage, not just big attacks that I couldn't stop, but I spot them too late).

 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Cm_blast

[MattBaker]

Glad to see you're having some fun

Sorry recently I've been busy

[Cm_blast]

On 5/11/2019 at 9:20 PM, MattBaker said:

Glad to see you're having some fun

Sorry recently I've been busy

I'ts fine; I just leaving here my impressions on the campaign, I am halfway but I already like this campaign the more of the three.Edit:
I played a couple of maps more.

Spoiler

 

The harvest 25.000 credits was fine, indeed easy for the most part because I took quickly the Imperial barracks with the sabs, then the Atreides barrack and finally 1 of the light facts with those Fremen that you give me. Besides that I went defensive for the most part.

And the next map; I was wondering what was that "mower" thing (I mean, I didn't ever know what that word means; I just checked with a traductor), and when I saw in the game... you deserve a clap for the clever idea. It took me most of my infantry but I keep going anyway.

Later I have the control of that "mower", but I not sure for what purpose; I lost the right base, so I guess no more reinforcements for me on that area, but there weren't enemies coming, so that ally "mower" was there just for show (maybe that was intented?).

It's interesting seeing the "village" so big and spreaded but being slowly being taking out by the enemy attacks. Remembers me other classic RTS game with a similar set up. Good job.

There is something you may add, if you want:
Any reinforcements being given trigger a "reinforcement have arrive" voice line, but the units being spawn don't trigger anything, so I need to check the radar constatly to look for those extra units. If all my outposts were destroyed would be much harder to keep the track of what units I recieve or not (maybe those are not given if no outpost it's present).

You may add a message "units available" to trigger at the same time; or you can reuse the "reinforcements have arrive" voice line triggering from the script (in case you don't want to distract the player with plenty of messages). <-- those are only suggestions, but are not mandatory because you are placing the "fake concrete" to tell players where they actually will appear, but I let you know in case you want to use it in the future for another type of sporadic spawns.

Anyway; the mower it's a great idea; I may copy it on any new future campaigns I may create.

 

New edit:
Two more maps.
Map 11 it's interesting, a well know map. Nothing too hard with all the stuff the player gest; I can see good playeres beating before the timer runs out.

Map 12 (o6v2).
Alright; I like the map, and the use of those carryalls to deliver that stuff: I wasn't expecting that.

Spoiler

 

the map was interesting; you didn't lie; the map was easy, not all the AI were highly unit-productions so it's not insane to deal with them. Also, thanks for the advice that loosing something specific you will get more.

I found a couple of minor problems there: 1 it's the briefing; at the end of the game, since either smuggler or mercs were huntint any more harvesters; I guessed that I needed to take out the smugglers.
The briefing said "and eliminate all that against you". But the smuggler weren't enemeis, so It would help if (I continue writing later, had to go)

 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Cm_blast

[MattBaker]

On 5/11/2019 at 6:23 PM, Cm_blast said:

I'ts fine; I just leaving here my impressions on the campaign, I am halfway but I already like this campaign the more of the three.

Edit:
I played a couple of maps more. The harvest 25.000 credits was fine, indeed easy for the most part because I took quickly the Imperial barracks with the sabs, then the Atreides barrack and finally 1 of the light facts with those Fremen that you give me. Besides that I went defensive for the most part.

And the next map; I was wondering what was that "mower" thing (I mean, I didn't ever know what that word means; I just checked with a traductor), and when I saw in the game... you deserve a clap for the clever idea. It took me most of my infantry but I keep going anyway.

Later I have the control of that "mower", but I not sure for what purpose; I lost the right base, so I guess no more reinforcements for me on that area, but there weren't enemies coming, so that ally "mower" was there just for show (maybe that was intented?).

It's interesting seeing the "village" so big and spreaded but being slowly being taking out by the enemy attacks. Remembers me other classic RTS game with a similar set up. Good job.

There is something you may add, if you want:
Any reinforcements being given trigger a "reinforcement have arrive" voice line, but the units being spawn don't trigger anything, so I need to check the radar constatly to look for those extra units. If all my outposts were destroyed would be much harder to keep the track of what units I recieve or not (maybe those are not given if no outpost it's present).

You may add a message "units available" to trigger at the same time; or you can reuse the "reinforcements have arrive" voice line triggering from the script (in case you don't want to distract the player with plenty of messages). <-- those are only suggestions, but are not mandatory because you are placing the "fake concrete" to tell players where they actually will appear, but I let you know in case you want to use it in the future for another type of sporadic spawns.

Anyway; the mower it's a great idea; I may copy it on any new future campaigns I may create.

New edit:
Two more maps.
Map 11 it's interesting, a well know map. Nothing too hard with all the stuff the player gest; I can see good playeres beating before the timer runs out.

Map 12 (o6v2).
Alright; I like the map, and the use of those carryalls to deliver that stuff: I wasn't expecting that.

the map was interesting; you didn't lie; the map was easy, not all the AI were highly unit-productions so it's not insane to deal with them. Also, thanks for the advice that loosing something specific you will get more.

I found a couple of minor problems there: 1 it's the briefing; at the end of the game, since either smuggler or mercs were huntint any more harvesters; I guessed that I needed to take out the smugglers.
The briefing said "and eliminate all that against you". But the smuggler weren't enemeis, so It would help if (I continue writing later, had to go)

oh in that "mower" mission maybe you capture the outpost too quickly  or there will be enemy from that side

[MattBaker]

On 5/11/2019 at 6:23 PM, Cm_blast said:

I'ts fine; I just leaving here my impressions on the campaign, I am halfway but I already like this campaign the more of the three.

Edit:
I played a couple of maps more. The harvest 25.000 credits was fine, indeed easy for the most part because I took quickly the Imperial barracks with the sabs, then the Atreides barrack and finally 1 of the light facts with those Fremen that you give me. Besides that I went defensive for the most part.

And the next map; I was wondering what was that "mower" thing (I mean, I didn't ever know what that word means; I just checked with a traductor), and when I saw in the game... you deserve a clap for the clever idea. It took me most of my infantry but I keep going anyway.

Later I have the control of that "mower", but I not sure for what purpose; I lost the right base, so I guess no more reinforcements for me on that area, but there weren't enemies coming, so that ally "mower" was there just for show (maybe that was intented?).

It's interesting seeing the "village" so big and spreaded but being slowly being taking out by the enemy attacks. Remembers me other classic RTS game with a similar set up. Good job.

There is something you may add, if you want:
Any reinforcements being given trigger a "reinforcement have arrive" voice line, but the units being spawn don't trigger anything, so I need to check the radar constatly to look for those extra units. If all my outposts were destroyed would be much harder to keep the track of what units I recieve or not (maybe those are not given if no outpost it's present).

You may add a message "units available" to trigger at the same time; or you can reuse the "reinforcements have arrive" voice line triggering from the script (in case you don't want to distract the player with plenty of messages). <-- those are only suggestions, but are not mandatory because you are placing the "fake concrete" to tell players where they actually will appear, but I let you know in case you want to use it in the future for another type of sporadic spawns.

Anyway; the mower it's a great idea; I may copy it on any new future campaigns I may create.

New edit:
Two more maps.
Map 11 it's interesting, a well know map. Nothing too hard with all the stuff the player gest; I can see good playeres beating before the timer runs out.

Map 12 (o6v2).
Alright; I like the map, and the use of those carryalls to deliver that stuff: I wasn't expecting that.

the map was interesting; you didn't lie; the map was easy, not all the AI were highly unit-productions so it's not insane to deal with them. Also, thanks for the advice that loosing something specific you will get more.

I found a couple of minor problems there: 1 it's the briefing; at the end of the game, since either smuggler or mercs were huntint any more harvesters; I guessed that I needed to take out the smugglers.
The briefing said "and eliminate all that against you". But the smuggler weren't enemeis, so It would help if (I continue writing later, had to go)

And maybe you know all the strategies of this game so most of the missions seem to be easy for you

yeah that kind of "bugs" occur because although I play many times of all missions, I may use 1 or 2 strategies that doesn't "trigger" the bug ...

[Cm_blast]

On 5/14/2019 at 3:53 PM, MattBaker said:

oh in that "mower" mission maybe you capture the outpost too quickly  or there will be enemy from that side

I don't know. Withouth being able to produce anything I just start scouting and move into the next objetive. The very first time the mower come I lost several of my infantry, but since the Raider reach the end I just decided to try what happens next.

On 5/14/2019 at 3:55 PM, MattBaker said:

yeah that kind of "bugs" occur because although I play many times of all missions, I may use 1 or 2 strategies that doesn't "trigger" the bug ...

Since you quote the whole post I don't exactly at what part you are refering.

Anyway; I was writting but had to go, so I left my last line in the middle.

On 5/14/2019 at 3:55 PM, MattBaker said:

I found a couple of minor problems there: 1 it's the briefing; at the end of the game, since either smuggler or mercs were huntint any more harvesters; I guessed that I needed to take out the smugglers.
The briefing said "and eliminate all that against you". But the smuggler weren't enemeis, so It would help if (I continue writing later, had to go)

Like I was saying; I was extra carefull that the smuggler never got hostile towarms me, so was weird seeing that there weren't more enemies, not even mercs or smuggler were hunting anyone.

You have 2 solutions here.
First: on the briefing you point to take out every single faction on the game except the mercs (ally); so when you find the smugglers they are neutral "for now", later I need to take them down.
Second: After no other enemies are present (base destroyed) you can script a change of alliances. Make the Smugglers being enemy with you and with the mercs and, of course, you and Mercs enemies toward them.

So the game will progress as the player is looking at an still alive faction figthing, so it needs to be killed as well.

On 5/14/2019 at 3:55 PM, MattBaker said:

And maybe you know all the strategies of this game so most of the missions seem to be easy for you

I mean, in contrast with your previous campaign this one it's "easy". I am recurring to all the cheap tactics xD, like attacking harvs, crashing on units and etc. But not all the maps are just simply easy; for example the ones with limited money I have some problems (moments when I don't have money and need to wait a few minutes) or I blend the rules, like selling the buildings (and/or walls) you gave me in order to place a heavy fact that make the map much more easy to beat, but if I played by the rules (only using the buildings provided, like the repair pad on that map) probably the map weren't that easy.

Still, I am halfway your campaign yet, so I am expecting harder missions to come.

On 5/14/2019 at 3:55 PM, MattBaker said:

bug ...

Maybe you don't know this. But if you click and drag with the mouse over a word, or a line or whatever... from other's people post, appears a text "quote selection"; I tell you so you can choose a line, or a word or whatever you want; I just let you know that you can do that quickly with just your mouse.
Edit:
Alright; played another map, mission 13.

Spoiler

 

The interesting thing here is how, instead the classic "player have 1-3 bases and the enemy send reinforcements from every corner", now it's in reverse. I like keeping recieving stuff and trying to destroy all the enemies with a good amount of turrets.

I was a bit lucky enough to capture the enemy CY with my very first eengineer (I lost the units I was using at that moment, but the Ai ignore my eengineer); from there I could expand my base and build a few refs to keep the economy up.

It's weird, at some point I was at 0 and nobody was harvesting. The blooms are there, not too many, but was strange not having any income until a couple of minutes that a bloom finally appear.

It's a good map; not as easy as it looks because with so many fronts to react its' hard keeping track or everthing, but still a fun map to play. I like how you are having good ideas to use the repair pad: "Should I use the units to attack or order them to repair to cover the main base?"

 

Another edit:
Alright, Map 14 was a surprise.

Spoiler

 

Reusing a well know map but makes sense; a harder map because a such big map with so much going on everywhere, it's hard to tell what it's happening. It's a good concept, and not as easy as may looks because there is only a few areas to harvest.

Good job.

By the way; I want to suggest you something.
If I am not wrong. This mission 14 it's about "your guys" deserting or rebelling against you, ¿Right? I mean, they are not Harkonnen or Atreides or anything like that, just your own soldiers (or civilians) turning against you.

If that's right, you may consider to use a different index for them, just for a bit of more inmersion.
There is a txt file with the whole list of index and the colors that will play into the game; I'll pass to you if you are interested; but meanwhile, you can make use of this values: 131 - 176 -154 - 193 (on the mission settings windown); I use them these early on my smugglers campaign (I mean the full one, not just the mini-campaign); the colors of those index are not "clean", but at least they won't look like you are facing ATr-Hark units; I don't remember right now, but I think one of them looks like a mix of  yellow/green on the radar and another make use of a bright magenta.

Just that; you can try to use a few of those values just to get a bit more of inmersion like you are facing a "traitor" group that it's not the original faction, just leaderless guys that fight against you.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Cm_blast

[Cm_blast]

My previous post it's too big, so I will write a new one.
Map 15;

Spoiler

another interesting and fair map. limited resources that don't allow the player to assault directly the stronger factions, but there are others more weaker to defeat and capture with the few eengineers given. I played the map a bit bad because I used 1 eengineer with a building but didn't realice I had another (and I destroyed refs and silos full of spice); later I didn't want to reload the game to a 15-20 mins prior to capture them instead, but for the next time I can make use of the multiple refs and silos to increase my power a lot.

But anyway; with only 1 ref the economy it's low but the amount of reinforcements and the Ai's not being too much strong allow me to (even slowly and steady) win the map. those maps are not easy anymore, so much things going on I kept loosing turrets, and while defending my base I lost the units I was using to attack, so took me a while to win, but again, the map it's really fair and I lost buildings because my own mistakes.

Mission 16:

Spoiler

alright; I don't know if you ever played my single map, the "mercenaries: choose your ally"; on this map depending of which eenginer you kill the player join a different faction and recieve different units.
I don't know if you got the inspiration of that map or it is on your own, but I am happy seeing this type of presentantion on a map (you even used the "leave" event to let the players know that there is only 1 choice and that's it.

Now, although the map it's balanced and the Ai's are not overproducing too much (there is even starports that the AI don't use of their own, they just recieve small groups of units to incrase his power);
However, the map it's a bit boring. It's a defensive map which the player it's barely given units to do stuff.

As a suggestion; I wish there is something more to do. Since in this map for the first time the Ai's are figthing each other (at least Atr-Hark, the emperor it's a bit far away and will end going against the player); my suggestion for this map it's this:
a) give the player more units. Don't need to be "big reinforcements" (since that it's what the map it's about), but as on the map you stole smugglers reinforcements, you could expand that.

Give 1 Ordos/atr/har tank, 1 devi/sonic/devas, 2-3 quads, 2-3 trikes/raiders (depending on the palace choosen) in loops. You already have 1 loop there, but it's a bit small. So a bit better units and/or more closer (4000 % ticks instead 9000) <-- I mean, 4000% ticks with the reinforcements you have, or 9000% with the one I am suggesting now).

And, to be fair, the AIs will produce a bit more, or attack more often and so on.

The main idea I am trying to say; it's that instead the player being ultra defensive; the player can use those units you recieve from time to time to force the Ais to fight each other, so your will loose 2-3 light vehicles and in exchange the 2 Ais send most of his units to kill each others.

b) Another solution would be given the player a light factory and a refinery. That's low economy so you cannot just use quads/raiders to defeat the Ai's (they have turrets and other production); with the "harvester remplacement". the player will always have 1 harvester just to increase the economy even if you loose your only harvester (since the map don't have heavy facts for the player, you economy will be really really slow). But the point that will give the player something to do; just moving a couple of units to try to make the AI fight each other, looking your harvester to get a bit more of money, building a quad, etc.

So; I just trying to say to give the player a bit more of action, not just placing all the units together and waiting for the timer to run's out. You are improving greatling at creating maps and being fair, so you can think on a way to make the map a bit more interesting but letting the player being really weak but still giving me the chance to produce a few units to move them and trick the Ai's each other.

Of course, this is only a suggestion, feel free to let the map as it is now.

There are only 2 maps left for play; but I am really enjoying the campaign; it's more interesting and more fair than your previous works.

I hope, in the future, that you make your own maps instead reusing the vanilla campaigns or skirmish maps or, at least, if you reuse only a part of those maps (copy-paste) and then combine with something original of yours or even something new you make on your own.

Ps: To let you know, I added your Glory campaigns into the main post index.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Cm_blast

[Fey]

34 minutes ago, Cm_blast said:

My previous post it's too big, so I will write a new one.

Posts can be too big? o_O I thought with all our back-and-forth, we'd have found the limit by now lol

I'm trying to avoid reading your reviews, Cm, but I do catch you saying that the Ordos campaign is a great improvement. I look forward to trying it.

[Cm_blast]

4 hours ago, Fey said:

Posts can be too big? o_O I thought with all our back-and-forth, we'd have found the limit by now lol

Too big to read. A 50 line post it's just too big. I will try to place them in spoiler later, just to reduce the size of the post for the sake of clarity.

4 hours ago, Fey said:

I'm trying to avoid reading your reviews, Cm, but I do catch you saying that the Ordos campaign is a great improvement. I look forward to trying it.

Yeap; I can confirm the improvement on these maps.

I already place all the post in spoiler, so now the posts are smaller and won't give away too much info to people that are planning to play and, since there are surprises from time to time, better hidden in a spoiler.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Cm_blast

[Cm_blast]

My final post for now, since I almost ended the campaign.

Map 15

Spoiler

I need to replay this map because I gave up. I don't fully understand that thing about having the deviated vehicles on the vertex of the repair pad. with my own turrets there they will get shot as son as they got deviated, or it is some kind of bug I am not aware off?

I had almost the units deviated but the Atreides combat tank and sonic tank (and mercs units, but I left those to the end), but at some point some deviated units return to normal, my other deviater units shoot them and kill my quad and my trike, and later both the Harkonnen tank and missile tank returned to normal, my deviators all shoot against the tank, so the enemy missile tank started to run to his base. Here is when I gave up.

Although I am not against the concept of the map; I don't think you should include your allys vehicles. 14 missions in a row the player already control ordos units, including Stealth Raiders; there is no point on needed to deviate vehicles that the Ordos have been using for a while now. this would make more sense if this was the first or second mission or something like that, but at this point it's a bit redundant.

Also, asking for deviate your ally's units it's not a good thing, because for the enemies you can have deviators near to keep shooting as they return to normal, but the Ally's units won't get attacked automatelly.

Finally, asking for the St.Raider it's too painfull. Although it is an ally the player cannot see where he is, if there is any at some point. Mercs may be at low money, or just simply build other vehicles and loosing in figths or whatever. It's impossible to be sure where the St.Raiders are going to be, and even if you use infantry, if they are attacking or defending constatly moving I need to fill my ally's base with infantry every two squares or so just to have track of that unit.

In my personal opinion, I simply will left out the needed for Mercs units because the Ordos already know those specific units too well.

Anyway; if you are not goint to change anything on the map, at least it's mandatory that you tell to players how to force the attack on allies, like "Tip: press control + click to attaack your ally".
Some people here, even although played the game regularly, maybe are not aware that pressing the control key you can do that.

Ps: I will make use of this concept in the near future; I hope :P.

Aaaand, final mission

Spoiler

well, indeed a final mission. tons of infantry coming at me; good thing my 7 siege tanks in line took care of those swarms of enemies.

nothing much to say but a through map, tons of imperial armys and well defended bases, as the briefing said.

But I like how even that's balanced. A very well defended base has his weakness, and found that to make the reaming of the base to fall it's fun.

There are two things you may consider.

1º: the poor Harkonnen, as ally, are not really too worth; I may get more benefict capturing their buildings that maken them my ally because the poor guys only have a 4000 interval attacks.
You can use the "set attack building rate" to increase the interval and makes the attacks a bit more stronger (doing it at the same time they become ally with you). Because I see them sending 1 devs, 1 tank and 2-3 infantry/light vehicles per wave; that's barely and attack (if they don't do orders of the starport, that's his strengh).

2º: make the briefing a bit more clear by saying that the palaces are the main target.
This way if I took 1 of the enemy palaces I can just leave the remaining buildings (turrets, windtraps or even factories if I destroy already his refineries) and focus on another of the enemy bases.
Just to clarify that to win I need to destroy the specific building per base, not just all the whole bases.

But anyway; a hard map, but balanced. Took me more than 1 hour and 30 minutes; I played in two days, but I'll say it took me like 1:40 total time or so.

Amazing campaign, good job.
Let's hope in the future you create a new campaign with custom terraign made by you! Keep working on.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Cm_blast

[MattBaker]

Well, for making new maps, I've already tried, but find it takes too much time to draw one map, even with 64*64 

BTW now I'm stuck in my new mission because I can't think of anything new. It takes more time to think than to draw  

[MattBaker]

I will play the whole campaign again and match your comments with missions one by one  

[Fey]

4 hours ago, MattBaker said:

Well, for making new maps, I've already tried, but find it takes too much time to draw one map, even with 64*64 

BTW now I'm stuck in my new mission because I can't think of anything new. It takes more time to think than to draw  

Man, I know that feeling XD It's hard to draw maps sometimes. Like, it's really easy to leave a lot of empty space or nix details and stuff. And then there's also considering what you want the map to be about...

Having done some 128x128 maps, let me tell ya: It's a good idea to design it little bit by little bit. Klofkac's Map & Mission Editor has a neat function allowing you to set the map size (F5). So, say you do 50x50 for starts, or even 40x40 - really small. Maybe you add some rock for the player's base, then an enemy's, and then some Spice and decor... and that's all. And then you extend the map out to the east, say to 110x40 units. Want to shift the map? F6. Add a place for the player to expand, some empty rock, some general decor. Maybe some cliffs you add continue on below the map's edge, and then you can use them as guidelines for where you want the cliffs to keep going or end. D2k may have limitations, but as they pertain to map size... it's quite adequate. 128x128 is, I've said it before, incomprehensibly big!

In my own previous designs, I found it quite impossible to properly envision the scale of islands where there was so much space for them. This may not be the case for everyone, but for me, it sure gave some perspective on necessity and detailing in map size. Even if you start with something sm0l, you don't need to go up to the limit. It may help even for 80x80 maps or something to get the details right... enough rock, but no empty space between the details.

Of course, I also like big maps, I like to move around a lot and have grand battles and stuff. And building larger maps that are aesthetically pleasing and functional came with lots of practice. So... I have to recommend you just keep at it! It may take a few days, assuming you've got some free time, to fully envision a new map... but it'll be worth it to see it done. And then the next one's done faster... although the slower the process, the more meticulous you can be, the better you can perfect your designs. For the record, I for one liked your original maps the most so far. Between your original maps and those built on previous designs, that is.

[Cm_blast]

7 hours ago, MattBaker said:

Well, for making new maps, I've already tried, but find it takes too much time to draw one map, even with 64*64 

The first time usually takes plenty of times, but the more you use the editor the better you know the shorcuts; both Keyboard and mouse.

7 hours ago, MattBaker said:

BTW now I'm stuck in my new mission because I can't think of anything new. It takes more time to think than to draw

I can tell, with +100 maps done now it's really hard to me to do something that it doesn't look too similar to something I did before.

From time to time I pick up ideas from other maps to use on mines.

7 hours ago, MattBaker said:

I will play the whole campaign again and match your comments with missions one by one  

By the way; I tried again the deviators mission; I don't know if there is any special tip, but I cannot simply win. I just gave up. At first all was fine, have full control of the deviated units, but later they get un/deviated too often; I cannot paid attention to both the deviated units and trying to deviate the ones I was missing.

Also, you can turn-off the eengineers from the skirmish type of Ai's if you want, like in the last map, the Atreides produce eengineers, which it's a bit big cost of a unit that send almost alone.
But producing eengineers it's not exactly tied to being a skirmish type of AI; it's your call.
If you want to know how to make the Atreides (or any skirmish Ai you may use in the future) to stop training eenginer I'll tell you.

7 hours ago, MattBaker said:

Well, for making new maps, I've already tried, but find it takes too much time to draw one map, even with 64*64 

You can try to reuse campaign/skirmish maps but editing them a bit, so they are not exactly the same and serves you to get used to the editor.

My first campaign "a new house" just reuse plenty of original maps, there is even one that you used here on the glory Ordos, but I added a few rifts just to make the travel of the AI longer. But yeah, if you open the maps on the editor on that campaign you will see maps that are almost the same as the originals.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Cm_blast

[MattBaker]

15 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

The first time usually takes plenty of times, but the more you use the editor the better you know the shorcuts; both Keyboard and mouse.

I can tell, with +100 maps done now it's really hard to me to do something that it doesn't look too similar to something I did before.

From time to time I pick up ideas from other maps to use on mines.

By the way; I tried again the deviators mission; I don't know if there is any special tip, but I cannot simply win. I just gave up. At first all was fine, have full control of the deviated units, but later they get un/deviated too often; I cannot paid attention to both the deviated units and trying to deviate the ones I was missing.

Also, you can turn-off the eengineers from the skirmish type of Ai's if you want, like in the last map, the Atreides produce eengineers, which it's a bit big cost of a unit that send almost alone.
But producing eengineers it's not exactly tied to being a skirmish type of AI; it's your call.
If you want to know how to make the Atreides (or any skirmish Ai you may use in the future) to stop training eenginer I'll tell you.

You can try to reuse campaign/skirmish maps but editing them a bit, so they are not exactly the same and serves you to get used to the editor.

My first campaign "a new house" just reuse plenty of original maps, there is even one that you used here on the glory Ordos, but I added a few rifts just to make the travel of the AI longer. But yeah, if you open the maps on the editor on that campaign you will see maps that are almost the same as the originals.

The deviation mission: After you capture one vehicle, you need to send it to repair pad immediately; that's what carryalls use for! When it reaches the repair pad, you can try using hotkey "S" to stop it ON one of the four points of the pad, then it won't transfer, unless you move it or the repair pad is destroyed!

the four points are (let's see if I can draw something ):

 

 

 

[MattBaker]

18 hours ago, Fey said:

Man, I know that feeling XD It's hard to draw maps sometimes. Like, it's really easy to leave a lot of empty space or nix details and stuff. And then there's also considering what you want the map to be about...

Having done some 128x128 maps, let me tell ya: It's a good idea to design it little bit by little bit. Klofkac's Map & Mission Editor has a neat function allowing you to set the map size (F5). So, say you do 50x50 for starts, or even 40x40 - really small. Maybe you add some rock for the player's base, then an enemy's, and then some Spice and decor... and that's all. And then you extend the map out to the east, say to 110x40 units. Want to shift the map? F6. Add a place for the player to expand, some empty rock, some general decor. Maybe some cliffs you add continue on below the map's edge, and then you can use them as guidelines for where you want the cliffs to keep going or end. D2k may have limitations, but as they pertain to map size... it's quite adequate. 128x128 is, I've said it before, incomprehensibly big!

In my own previous designs, I found it quite impossible to properly envision the scale of islands where there was so much space for them. This may not be the case for everyone, but for me, it sure gave some perspective on necessity and detailing in map size. Even if you start with something sm0l, you don't need to go up to the limit. It may help even for 80x80 maps or something to get the details right... enough rock, but no empty space between the details.

Of course, I also like big maps, I like to move around a lot and have grand battles and stuff. And building larger maps that are aesthetically pleasing and functional came with lots of practice. So... I have to recommend you just keep at it! It may take a few days, assuming you've got some free time, to fully envision a new map... but it'll be worth it to see it done. And then the next one's done faster... although the slower the process, the more meticulous you can be, the better you can perfect your designs. For the record, I for one liked your original maps the most so far. Between your original maps and those built on previous designs, that is.

 

[MattBaker]

15 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

The first time usually takes plenty of times, but the more you use the editor the better you know the shorcuts; both Keyboard and mouse.

I can tell, with +100 maps done now it's really hard to me to do something that it doesn't look too similar to something I did before.

From time to time I pick up ideas from other maps to use on mines.

By the way; I tried again the deviators mission; I don't know if there is any special tip, but I cannot simply win. I just gave up. At first all was fine, have full control of the deviated units, but later they get un/deviated too often; I cannot paid attention to both the deviated units and trying to deviate the ones I was missing.

Also, you can turn-off the eengineers from the skirmish type of Ai's if you want, like in the last map, the Atreides produce eengineers, which it's a bit big cost of a unit that send almost alone.
But producing eengineers it's not exactly tied to being a skirmish type of AI; it's your call.
If you want to know how to make the Atreides (or any skirmish Ai you may use in the future) to stop training eenginer I'll tell you.

You can try to reuse campaign/skirmish maps but editing them a bit, so they are not exactly the same and serves you to get used to the editor.

My first campaign "a new house" just reuse plenty of original maps, there is even one that you used here on the glory Ordos, but I added a few rifts just to make the travel of the AI longer. But yeah, if you open the maps on the editor on that campaign you will see maps that are almost the same as the originals.

this shows better  

By the way, I don't know how to quote one line to reply ...