Fey

[WIP] The next campaign...

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Posted (edited)

Well, the smugglers campaign has been finished, polished up, and released for some time now. I think the old 'playing around with the D2k campaign' thread is irrelevant at this point and I'd like to make a new thread for progress on the next campaign, so that's what I'm doing. But, what should I do next? Tell me what you think! Here's roughly what I've got in mind for each of the playable factions:

Spoiler

 - Follow Cyril Vasiliou, the noble Atreides commander on his quest to befriend the elusive fremen and claim Arrakis for the Duke.
 -- Redesigned Atreides campaign maps with additional elements like sub-houses and story.
 -- Strong and deeply hostile rivalry with the Harkonnen, though will occasionally interfere with illegal smuggling operations and, by extent, House Ordos.
 -- May become side-tracked by protecting civilian or Fremen settlements in the middle of a battle.

 - Play as Radnor Krillys, the ruthless Harkonnen commander whose lust for battle sees the mighty Harkonnen through to the end of the bloody war.
 -- Redesigned Harkonnen campaign maps with additional elements like sub-houses and story.
 -- Strong and deeply hostile rivalry with the Atreides, though will occasionally confiscate smuggler assets in the interest of bolstering their war chest.
 -- Considering a civil war-type plot like in E:BFD, but not sure how I'd implement yet.

 - Strategize with Achen Moriaen, House Ordos' mysterious commander who has a hand in all manner of shady things.
 -- Redesigned Ordos campaign maps with additional elements like sub-houses and story.
 -- Will seek to establish convenient agreements with several sub-houses to achieve victory... and keep them off each-other's throats until House Ordos has won.
 -- May utilize previously unseen technology, like gholas, to disrupt relations between other houses, such as the Atreides with the fremen.

 - Annihilate the competition with the Imperials' mighty army, commanded by the fearless and headstrong Kyne Giraud.
 -- Maps drawn up from scratch with completely original elements, possibly drawing from my last campaign.
 -- Inevitably ganged up on by all other factions. However, elite troops and a game plan ahead of everyone else gives a solid chance to be the sole survivor.
 -- May form an alliance of convenience with Houses falling behind the others.

 - Join the naib Issam Nehara on a journey to unite the fremen against their numerous enemies, ensuring their future on Arrakis alongside the Atreides.
 -- Maps drawn up from scratch with completely original elements, possibly drawing from my last campaign.
 -- May have limited technology and may be neutral towards most Houses, though the Harkonnen and Imperials will no doubt be totally hostile to them.
 -- Most likely involved in stealthy raids on enemy bases or the defense of civilian towns.

COMPLETE ALREADY:
 - Employ Rowe Summers' military experience to the benefit of the smuggler militia, baffling friend and foe alike as you unexpectedly become a force to be reckoned with.
 -- Maps drawn up from scratch with completely original elements.
 -- Up against vastly superior armies, but extremely wealthy. As a faction seeking wealth, it will inevitably align with House Ordos.
 -- Will eventually have access to Deviator technology and a respected position as a commander, should you stir enough chaos.
Link to thread: https://forum.dune2k.com/topic/27508-release-smugglers-campaign/

- Play out Sabre Durant's ambitious plans for his mercenaries as you command the most respected army not belonging to any one of the Great Houses.
 -- Maps drawn up from scratch with completely original elements, possibly drawing from my last campaign.
 -- May abandon alliances depending on what's favorable at a given time. Will attempt to usurp the last Great House standing once the Emperor has been defeated.
 -- Durant favors the Missile Tank and deploys it from the mercenary factory in place of the Ordos' more strategic Deviator unit.

What sounds the most interesting to you? Please leave a comment and let me know, and I'll take it into consideration for the next campaign I begin work on. If you have any ideas for campaign maps that could be one of the campaign missions, I'm all ears for those, too.

I'll be using this thread to give progress updates on the new campaign, and I'll update the subject with the faction being worked on once it's been decided. Thank you!

Edited by Fey
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I can't choose one. All of them seems interesting. I could say to encourage you to create the one you prefer: like your favourite faction first or the one you can be more creative or something.

I'll be waiting near for the first maps :P.


 

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Posted (edited)

On 4/14/2017 at 7:16 AM, Cm_blast said:

I can't choose one. All of them seems interesting. I could say to encourage you to create the one you prefer: like your favourite faction first or the one you can be more creative or something.

I'll be waiting near for the first maps :P.

I have a couple of templates worked up for the Harkonnen and Imperial first maps. The Imperial was done a while ago, during the smuggler campaign, but I touched it up a tad since then. I worked up a Harkonnen template yesterday, but it has no briefing at this juncture.

The Harkonnen first level version one shown below involves a raid on an Atreides base. Gunseng is overseeing operations on Arrakis at the top, but as the field commander, Radnor Krillys, you'll more often be on-site conducting Harkonnen forces personally. Your first test as the new Harkonnen commander is to take first blood - strike down the Atreides and claim the territory for House Harkonnen.

Spoiler

H1V1.thumb.png.75034cf049e60a492eaa1a39d0e79763.png

Contrary to the smugglers non-combat tutorial level, De Vries will update you with more information about the different structures and their functions as you raze the enemy base. Gunseng will clear away the Construction Yard for you with the Trikes in the southwest corner, then depart so your forces can take over. The Atreides will put up a minor fight with Light Infantry, Troopers, and Trikes, but since you receive blood-thirsty Harkonnen reinforcements eager to fight the Atreides over the course of your base construction, their resistance is trivialized. This map was built based on the original H1V1 by moving terrain around. See here for comparison:

58f40b9178628_H1V1original.thumb.png.5d73601e2ecea75aa542940e550c4965.png

As for other Harkonnen levels planned, I have a few rough ideas for H1V2, H2V1, H2V2, H3V1, and H3V2. Later on, I have ideas for H6V1 and H6V2. See below:

Spoiler

H1V2: Exterminate a bunch of Fremen to clear space for a large industrial complex.
 - Harkonnen presence is only beginning on Arrakis. They will need a strong base of operations to last the war against the Atreides.
 - This act of aggression could immediately upset the Fremen and provoke the wrath of their Fedaykin warriors. It could also drive them towards the Atreides, since they directly oppose the Harkonnen.

H2V1: Terminate a Fremen camp under the protection of Atreides forces.
 - While the Atreides and Fremen aren't allied, the Duke seeks allegiance with them and will attempt to garner their trust through efforts to keep them safe during the war.
 - Stealth attacks from Fedaykin warriors would make this map more interesting.

H2V2: Fight alongside the Sardaukar against Sumadi/Summers and Durant.
 - Perhaps a convoy of your's gets snacked on by worms and bothered by sandstorms, and sets up in the territory where the Sardaukar are fighting Sumadi/Summers and Durant. Or, perhaps you already know the smugglers have been dealing with the Ordos, and you want to teach them a lesson. Figure out later.
 - This battle should impress the Sardaukar. They are religiously fanatical about their Emperor, but had different goals in Emperor: Battle for Dune. The strength of the Harkonnen army could inspire some defectors later on.

H3V1: Terrorize a smuggler base, Sumadi or Summers, and enlist aid against the Atreides.
 - Keeping the smuggler base operational will enable the funding of reinforcements, or additional frivolities. The Atreides base is massive and fortified on this map, so their aid is much needed.
 - They could bring in mercenary reinforcements at some point to attempt to get you to go away. Summers doesn't play nice with folks that don't work with her, and is a dangerous and crafty commander. Sumadi refuses to serve anyone, and Harkonnen interference with profits will definitely tick him off.

H3V2: Ordos raids on your mining base, must repel and save Spice.
 - Ordos forces lack strength, but possess wealth. With numbers, they can overcome the Harkonnen. Thus, Durant should be present to assist them on this map.
 - The Harkonnen don't really seem to like straying from their pattern of attack on the Atreides. Perhaps this is an annoyance to them?

H6V1: Fight against Copec with Gunseng Harkonnen.
 - Your experience with Gunseng on Arrakis inspires you to stick by your comrade-in-arms in this decisive battle.
 - You will be up against superior forces, including Devastators (though possibly limited) and the Death Hand. Using veteran forces from the battles with Gunseng across Arrakis, the Palace must be destroyed to secure victory!

H6V2: Fight against Gunseng with Copec Harkonnen.
 - Intimidated by the full might of the Harkonnen army, you join Copec to avoid a long and painful death.
 - Gunseng's forces will strike the Harkonnen capital on Arrakis in a blitz. They will try to take the Palace before you can muster any great defenses. You must destroy all the rebellious Harkonnen forces to ensure victory!

The Imperial first level already completed looks like this:

Spoiler

E1V1.thumb.png.2c9c10275b058a9c4864d51672b51cf0.png

And it's a raid on one of Sumadi's bases where some stolen Spice has been tracked. You get a few tanks and Sardaukar to roll over them with, but it's not enough to overcome their numbers. Your first objective is to raze Durant's outpost to the north, then lead the assault on Sumadi's base. This level is significantly harder than the other first levels I've designed; Sumadi will deploy tons of infantry and use his favored weapon, Stealth Raiders, against you. Fortunately, your strike force is capable of deploying Quads and Grenadiers to the battle, even on level 1. This level was built from scratch.

While I don't have specific ideas for more Imperial maps yet, I do have a general idea of where I want their strategy to go. See below:

Spoiler

I1V2: Raid a smuggler recruitment center. Annihilate everyone you find and send a clear message to anyone thinking of joining Sumadi's smugglers.
 - There's a huge increase in smuggler recruitment given the war for the Spice will begin soon.
 - Like the first Imperial level, Summers is not yet in the picture. These greenhorn militia will have no chance against superior Imperial troops.

The Imperials will occupy themselves with smugglers and their mercenary companions while observing the battle between the Great Houses for a while. They'll inadvertently remove the Ordos from the fight early this way. Giraud will focus on playing the Houses against each-other with subtle, indirect conflicts, until the battle escalates. Whichever House gains the most ground will be pushed back by the Imperials personally, and when everyone realizes what's going on, they will unite against Emperor Corrino.

I have some limited ideas for the other factions' campaigns as well:

Spoiler

Cyril Vasiliou is the honorable Atreides commander who seeks to claim Arrakis for the Duke. As per the Duke's request, he will seek friendship with the native Fremen and, per his own discretion, may confiscate smugglers' illegally obtained goods should they present themselves during a battle. Their main problem will be dealing with Harkonnen aggression, but the Ordos will hound them occasionally, and should the Atreides become aware of any atrocities or shady operations Moriaen is behind, they may respond in force.

Achen Moriaen is the mysterious Ordos commander whose subversion of the other Great Houses guarantees a chance at victory. While seemingly amiable, she has no care for the lives of those beneath her, nor even for her allies, so long as she has their cooperation. A very convincing negotiator, but always suspicious of those greedy factions she's enthralled with her promises, she recognizes the Ordos' strength lies in subtlety, speed, and numbers, and uses her skills to create convenient alliances to assure her victory.

The Fremen are scattered about and lack the organization to wage war. Nevertheless, they are fearsome, and if united could be unstoppable, even against Emperor Corrino himself. When Issam Nehara is driven away from home by Imperial patrols, he finds little refuge in the harsh desert, and may have to hide from Harkonnen scouts who would like nothing more than to slaughter him and the remnants of his Sietch. However, with aid from the Atreides, he can unite his people with the means to rid Arrakis of their enemies.

Sabre Durant's mercenaries sell their services to the highest bidder. They are the strongest army on Arrakis before the Great Houses, and may even be able to match the Ordos in combat. Though Durant deploys the same technology sold to the Ordos and used by Sumadi, he favors the Missile Tank and uses them over Deviators. He's treacherously ambitious and only remains loyal to money and Rowe Summers, a fellow ex-mercenary commander he has a soft spot for. He relies on Sumadi's income for his own wealth.

Hopefully that gives a better idea of what I should start on next. :)

 

Edited by Fey
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I did another Harkonnen map. Level 1, version 2. Here's what it looks like:

Spoiler

H1V2.thumb.png.e5175a31f3446ab777c2aa1103b23530.png

Here's a screenshot of the original H1V2 for comparison:
58f47acbbcd7b_H1V2original.thumb.png.6ce9703b9042688aa40e0c8d84ee2f9b.png

Here are some details:

Spoiler

You must clear out several Fremen settlements to make room for Harkonnen industry. Destroy all three Sietches and defend each base until a Refinery can be built, and victory will be achieved.

Gunseng will fly in an MCV for each Sietch you destroy and construct a small base at each location. The Fremen have limited defenses at two of the Sietches, and the third will continually respawn Fremen Warriors until it is destroyed. They will also attack either you or Gunseng's new base after a Sietch is destroyed with Fremen Warriors and Fedaykin.

Oddly enough, although Gunseng is represented by allocation index 193, when he deploys a ConYard it does not crash D2k. I'm not sure if that's my mod or what, but I encountered no issues during testing.

And, while I don't have the briefings done yet, here's a download link for H1V1 and H1V2 just 'cause I'd like an opinion on the gameplay and if it feels any different from the smugglers campaign. Please use the mod from the smugglers campaign for these maps!

Smugglers campaign link:
https://forum.dune2k.com/topic/27508-release-smugglers-campaign/
Harkonnen 01 v1 / v2 link:
01. Harkonnen.zip

I'd appreciate any feedback. Thanks. :)

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After I complete the run on my own campaign I will try your maps.

Just be careful how you manage the looking for Sietchs. I am talking in general, not in this specific map because maybe here they are easy to find, but if you are going to create a bigger map and there isn't any clues ("the sietch is to the north") or a reveal map, the sietchs are hard to find not only by scouting, but also in the miniradar.

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6 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

After I complete the run on my own campaign I will try your maps.

Just be careful how you manage the looking for Sietchs. I am talking in general, not in this specific map because maybe here they are easy to find, but if you are going to create a bigger map and there isn't any clues ("the sietch is to the north") or a reveal map, the sietchs are hard to find not only by scouting, but also in the miniradar.

Sounds good, Cm.

Yep, this map is really small. Not only that, but there are fremen around each Sietch, so it's overwhelmingly obvious where they are... but you'll see that, yourself, when you get around to it. :D

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Posted (edited)

25 minutes ago, Fey said:

Yep, this map is really small. Not only that, but there are fremen around each Sietch, so it's overwhelmingly obvious where they are... but you'll see that, yourself, when you get around to it. :D

Knowing you after defeating the Fremen 40 Imperial Tanks appears and kills me XD.

Although I will try to play blindy.

Edited by Cm_blast
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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, Cm_blast said:

Knowing you after defeating the Fremen 40 Imperial Tanks appears and kills me XD.

Although I will try to play blindy.

Haha XD This is the Harkonnen campaign, not the smugglers campaign! Go ahead, feast on their blood, reap what you sow.

More Fremen will obviously come to help, but they're not like S2V1. You're meant to clear 'em out :)

Edited by Fey
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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Fey said:

Haha XD This is the Harkonnen campaign, not the smugglers campaign! 

Ok ok, then the Atreides drop 40 Combat Tanks and kills me... I no longer trust you xD.

3 hours ago, Fey said:

Go ahead, feast on their blood, reap what you sow

You are a Sardaukar, are you? I mean, all that hate, not even the Harkonnen hate them that much xD.

I only hope that you manage to control the Stealth Fremen, since they behave so erratic sometimes. They can rush the player if you are Harkonnen (but patrolling if you are another house) and stuff like when they are 5 of them of the map they attack.

I remember forcing a bersek state in my antifremen campaign because even when I create regular reinforcement with the hunt command the St.Fremen not always attack (or attack a few of them, but not all the group).

Edited by Cm_blast
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11 minutes ago, Cm_blast said:

Ok ok, then the Atreides drop 40 Combat Tanks and kills me... I no longer trust you xD.

c:

11 minutes ago, Cm_blast said:

You are a Sardaukar, are you? I mean, all that hate, not even the Harkonnen hate them that much xD.

I only hope that you manage to control the Stealth Fremen, since they behave so erratic sometimes. They can rush the player if you are Harkonnen (but patrolling if you are another house) and stuff like when they are 5 of them of the map they attack.

I remember forcing a bersek state in my antifremen campaign because even when I create regular reinforcement with the hunt command the St.Fremen not always attack (or attack a few of them, but not all the group).

Naww lol, the Harkonnen are supposed to be bloodthirsty, war-mongering, callous guys! I'm just acting in character ;)

About the Fedaykin AI:

Spoiler

Aye, there are a few Fedaykin on the map but they act appropriately. The first ones will stay there until you come attack their Sietch, then the Fremen will send more while Gunseng builds up. They're set to berserk after Sietches are destroyed, resulting in multiple-pronged attacks if there are Fremen elsewhere on the map belonging to the side that had their Sietch destroyed.

 

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Posted (edited)

H2V1 has been designed and tested on normal mode.

While the briefing isn't done yet, the mission is still in... what do they call it? Beta? It needs more testing and I need more feedback, of course, so I'm dropping it here for now.

As usual, here's a map preview and a link to the original H2V1 for comparison. My version is visibly similar to the original, but notably different.

Spoiler

H2V1.thumb.png.7b8e07812ab9ba407ae3ce2e6a8c0660.png
58f86f1552ff9_H2V1original.thumb.png.96c6034f5d5e24d85f3a70822322dbe4.png

During several testing runs, the Atreides both attacked in small waves and a couple of times in a giant wave that totally razed my base. Really not sure what happened there but if you run into an unexpectedly high level of difficulty, just let me know and I may be able to figure out how to fix it better.

Details below:

Spoiler

H2V1: Placeholder
Press the attack into Atreides territory.
 - Fremen refugees fleeing our rapid expansion have sought assistance from the Atreides.
 -- There are two Naibs you can kill on this map that will comment on the action.
 -- Slaughtering the Fremen will provoke retaliation from Fedaykin avengers.
 - The Atreides have two bases in this region equipped with light vehicles and heavy infantry.
 -- Constructing an Outpost will reveal important locations on your interface.
 -- An MCV will be rewarded for the first major target you destroy.

Strategy during testing:
There's a lot of shit to blow up on this map, especially for the second level. The Atreides are entrenched and will defend their bases very well, but don't have very strong attacks for the most part, so build up a strike force at your leisure. Since there's a tech level of 2, Quads and Grenadiers are available, and there are ample opportunities to use them - enemy harvesters are fairly exposed to Quads and there are plenty of Wind Traps behind walls or atop cliffs that make great targets for grenades.

One thing that makes this map easier is the MCV you get for destroying either enemy Construction Yard or the Starport, allowing you to expand more factories or refineries to other islands. The northwest ConYard gives the largest island and the most room. The southeast ConYard gives a reasonably sized island amidst some small spice fields. Setting up at the Starport in the center of the map will allow you access to the largest Spice field. All of this is revealed if you build an Outpost! Take your pick.

Please remember to use my mod for this map! You can find the mod and installation instructions in the smuggler campaign thread here:
https://forum.dune2k.com/topic/27508-release-smugglers-campaign/

It would also be very appreciated if those who tested the new map left a comment. I use feedback to improve existing and later maps.
I still need feedback on H1V1, H1V2, and now H2V1.

Download it here:
H2V1.zip

Thanks, folks. Have fun.

Edited by Fey
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I already endend my final run, so I'll start playing your maps.

Just for clarify. Right now there are three 3 maps, 2 mission 1 and 1 mission 2, also the I need to use the same bin files as the Smuggler Campaign, I am right?

 

5 hours ago, Fey said:

During several testing runs, the Atreides both attacked in small waves and a couple of times in a giant wave that totally razed my base. Really not sure what happened there but if you run into an unexpectedly high level of difficulty, just let me know and I may be able to figure out how to fix it better.

Since you are encountering this problem I wanted to give a quick check. I remember seeing something "abnormal" in the smuggler one, so I wanted to give a look at the same thing.

My guess is the "protect unit" thing the culprit. The way the protect harverster works is this one: If that unit is under attack, proceed to use X units available to defend it (¿defined by protect/defend strengh? <-- not sure, but you have those number high); after they may come back to the base.

However, the AI can think that the treath is not any near unit, but the units in your base, so he proceed to "defend/protect" the harverster at all cost, sending everything to your base (this usually happens if the airstrike hits the harverster).

But now, you have some regular units under the "protect unit" thing too, so everytime you are killing a infantry, even in your own base, the AI may think that he needs to defend that unit, and send all he has to do it.

I not really sure if the "protect unit" really works on anything by harverster because other units can return fire, but maybe the "protect unit" only trigger in a long fight (you have a light infantry fighting the enemy quad, making the fight longer and triggering the "I must defend this unit!" for the AI). 

Once I had a test map where the player had plenty of rocket turrets, windtraps, outpost, CY y lots of Devastators/sieges. The AI a full base with 9999999 credits and the fastest unit build rate possible. I change the morale attack building to 1 and let the game be played.

The Enemy had almost all the screen filled with units and never attacking. But then I took control of the AI and forced 1 Trike to attack the harverster. After the Trike attack for a few seconds, the AI send all the available units on the base in a big rush against the player "base", just because this Harverster were attacked... By his own unit!

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1 hour ago, Cm_blast said:

I already endend my final run, so I'll start playing your maps.

Just for clarify. Right now there are three 3 maps, 2 mission 1 and 1 mission 2, also the I need to use the same bin files as the Smuggler Campaign, I am right?

Cool!

Yep. Three maps.

1 hour ago, Cm_blast said:

Since you are encountering this problem I wanted to give a quick check. I remember seeing something "abnormal" in the smuggler one, so I wanted to give a look at the same thing.

My guess is the "protect unit" thing the culprit. The way the protect harverster works is this one: If that unit is under attack, proceed to use X units available to defend it (¿defined by protect/defend strengh? <-- not sure, but you have those number high); after they may come back to the base.

However, the AI can think that the treath is not any near unit, but the units in your base, so he proceed to "defend/protect" the harverster at all cost, sending everything to your base (this usually happens if the airstrike hits the harverster).

But now, you have some regular units under the "protect unit" thing too, so everytime you are killing a infantry, even in your own base, the AI may think that he needs to defend that unit, and send all he has to do it.

I not really sure if the "protect unit" really works on anything by harverster because other units can return fire, but maybe the "protect unit" only trigger in a long fight (you have a light infantry fighting the enemy quad, making the fight longer and triggering the "I must defend this unit!" for the AI).

The weird moment where they sent a ton of stuff came from side 3's base in the southeast, and their Attack Building strength is set to 90%. Defend / protect is lower. However, I didn't see them building up and they sent a very small wave in comparison several times beforehand. Was really weird. I think I may have triggered the Emergency Build Rate to stay on or something.

The only units the AI is set to protect will never be built by that AI. It does indeed work, as you can see from the AI's functionality in S5V1 - side 3 will attack when its reinforced Missile Tank comes your way.

1 hour ago, Cm_blast said:

Once I had a test map where the player had plenty of rocket turrets, windtraps, outpost, CY y lots of Devastators/sieges. The AI a full base with 9999999 credits and the fastest unit build rate possible. I change the morale attack building to 1 and let the game be played.

The Enemy had almost all the screen filled with units and never attacking. But then I took control of the AI and forced 1 Trike to attack the harverster. After the Trike attack for a few seconds, the AI send all the available units on the base in a big rush against the player "base", just because this Harverster were attacked... By his own unit!

Oh, that's interesting. During testing I took control of sides 5 and 6 to test Fedaykin reinforcements and the Fremen would come running at me if I made them attack their own Naib. That makes sense.

If it is the defense, maybe a worm passed under their harvester, but didn't eat it... and they fired on it?

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Fey said:

Cool!

Yep. Three maps.

The weird moment where they sent a ton of stuff came from side 3's base in the southeast, and their Attack Building strength is set to 90%. Defend / protect is lower. However, I didn't see them building up and they sent a very small wave in comparison several times beforehand. Was really weird. I think I may have triggered the Emergency Build Rate to stay on or something.

The only units the AI is set to protect will never be built by that AI. It does indeed work, as you can see from the AI's functionality in S5V1 - side 3 will attack when its reinforced Missile Tank comes your way.

Oh, that's interesting. During testing I took control of sides 5 and 6 to test Fedaykin reinforcements and the Fremen would come running at me if I made them attack their own Naib. That makes sense.

If it is the defense, maybe a worm passed under their harvester, but didn't eat it... and they fired on it?

I don't think that 90 means exactly 90%, is more like "raw power" that depends (maybe) on the units used, the size of the base and if another AI is already attacking or not (another AI attackig surely affects).

I have a map with only a 30 of attack building strength and plenty deliveries (12 units among quads, trikes, siege/combat/missile tanks looping every 3,3 and 7,6 minutes - real time) and this AI, if no other AI are attacking at the same time, will send at least 70% of the units in the factories/starport. Now, if the second AI is attacking this first one wait another turn or just send a few units to attack (This AI is set to attack every 3,5 minutes, but I can tell you that the AI sometimes skip his turn to attack because the other AI is marching against you).

Well, a building being destroyed already spawn 1 or more light infantry, being damage killed by the debris. But the protect thing I don't think that works always. Sometimes I can destroy 2 Harverster and the AI doesn't care, maybe after the third one yes.
Also, I already did my own test some time ago. I used the Devastator because has a lot of health. I attacked it with trikes, infantry and later with a couple of troopers and the units I give tot he AI with the "unit spawn" didn't bother to protect it. Maybe works, sometimes, at  random? no idea, I should do more tests to be sure.

Not sure about the sandworm, but could be possible. Maybe depend on damage. a couple of trikes-quads shoots don't trigger it, but if there are missile tanks, turrets, troopers... and the sandworm chase very close the Harverster maybe yes. I can't tell for sure.

I know you have all the spots already covered, but you should have a least a reveal map =0 timer=1 and have vission on all the map. Is the best way to look at the AI and see how many units he is amassing and what % of the units is using to attack/defend/building.

Edited by Cm_blast
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Played the first level.

"<Insert awesome briefing story here.>"  
Yeah, all fill with placeholders but then this line XD

I could suggest to reduce the %500 on the mission win condition to 350 or so. At max speed probably you don't notice, but in normal speed this means that at a maximum I need to wait 20 seconds before the "mission accomplished" text appear (an average time of 10 seconds). I even though that something more was going to happen like the smuggler campaign, because I was waiting several seconds and the game still was going.

And that's it. I need to remember the "old new rules", since I already forgot. I mean, refs being more expensive and now looking scared how the harverster crashing my infantry. Damn, that "special" rule I make for my campaign It's taking a toll on me now.

 

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41 minutes ago, Cm_blast said:

Played the first level.

"<Insert awesome briefing story here.>"  
Yeah, all fill with placeholders but then this line XD

I could suggest to reduce the %500 on the mission win condition to 350 or so. At max speed probably you don't notice, but in normal speed this means that at a maximum I need to wait 20 seconds before the "mission accomplished" text appear (an average time of 10 seconds). I even though that something more was going to happen like the smuggler campaign, because I was waiting several seconds and the game still was going.

And that's it. I need to remember the "old new rules", since I already forgot. I mean, refs being more expensive and now looking scared how the harverster crashing my infantry. Damn, that "special" rule I make for my campaign It's taking a toll on me now.

XD Yeah I was surprised how tough the infantry were in... it was the Ix campaign, right? Not the... I think I also played the Frank Herbert campaign recently, really a nice piece of work you got there! Pretty sure it was the Ix campaign where the infantry were immune to squish.

There are lots of rocks in convenient places on my maps. S2V1 points out a location as an obvious example, but there are plenty all over the missions. Hopefully you found a good location to camp your infantry before trying to fire away at their Harvesters :D

Oh, yeah. I guess I should remove the additional time. lol

Do you have any other Harkonnen indexes that might be cool for Gunseng? I went with black from the index list just as a default.

I look forward to your feedback on the other two maps!

 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Fey said:

XD Yeah I was surprised how tough the infantry were in... it was the Ix campaign, right? Not the... I think I also played the Frank Herbert campaign recently, really a nice piece of work you got there! Pretty sure it was the Ix campaign where the infantry were immune to squish.

There are lots of rocks in convenient places on my maps. S2V1 points out a location as an obvious example, but there are plenty all over the missions. Hopefully you found a good location to camp your infantry before trying to fire away at their Harvesters :D

Oh, yeah. I guess I should remove the additional time. lol

Do you have any other Harkonnen indexes that might be cool for Gunseng? I went with black from the index list just as a default.

I look forward to your feedback on the other two maps!

 

The Ix campaign (the last one) is the one which you can't crush those units. Using 2 light infantry to kill 1 missile tank is poetic.

Thanks. The Frank Herbert one not use special rules or TibEd, is just a campaign "following" the book. Also the map from the mission 14 on that campaign is my favourite map ever created. Is big, is detailed, and almost looks like westwood themselves created that map (well, maybe that's just me :P).

Edited by Cm_blast
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1 minute ago, Cm_blast said:

The Ix campaign (the last one) is the one which you can't crush those units. Using 2 light infantry to kill 1 missile tank is poetic. Thanks. The Frank Herbert 

Oh my gosh yeah lol. And I used light infantry to destroy Missile Tanks in S2V1! I tell ya, man, those rocks are in a great spot!

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Posted (edited)

11 minutes ago, Fey said:

Oh my gosh yeah lol. And I used light infantry to destroy Missile Tanks in S2V1! I tell ya, man, those rocks are in a great spot!

Sorry, I send the message early by mistake, I was editing when you responde me :P. It's edited.

As you can see, no buffs at all, just not being crushed and they become strong (at least until the siege tank parts), and those Light infantry generated after destroying buildings. You can't crash them and if you shoot them the splash damage hurts you too a lot. siege tanks and infantry are require.

And yes, in your smuggler campaign were also rocks, so I will try to look for them. Anyway, the Harverster crushing me happens when I have my army splitted in two and the Atreides only had the barracks and a couple of wintraps lefts. It's just that, looking at the harverster killing my 10 soldiers I was like "oh... true, this is the original rule".

Don't need to remove all the time, just reduce a bit. For example, in this map I trigger the message saying something about the Atreides not having energy and at the same time the "being annihilated" message. just with %250-350 timer gives me enough time to read those text and I don't need to wait too much until the "mission accomplished" text appears.

About indexes. The other modder, the one about 4 Harkonnen Sub-factions uploaded a file with all the indexes possible. Check that post.
Also, since you are using TibEd you even can use those indexes that behave like the Emperor.

Edited by Cm_blast
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Oh, hehe.

39 minutes ago, Cm_blast said:

Thanks. The Frank Herbert one not use special rules or TibEd, is just a campaign "following" the book. Also the map from the mission 14 on that campaign is my favourite map ever created. Is big, is detailed, and almost looks like westwood themselves created that map (well, maybe that's just me :P).

Yeah, I thought that was really interesting! I haven't actually read the book, so I was seeing it for the first time. Despite this, I do remember certain concepts, like the Jom Gabbar and Harkonnen occupation of Shield Wall, and I feel like I know more than I did before about the story. :D

34 minutes ago, Cm_blast said:

As you can see, no buffs at all, just not being crushed and they become strong (at least until the siege tank parts), and those Light infantry generated after destroying buildings. You can't crash them and if you shoot them the splash damage hurts you too a lot. siege tanks and infantry are require.

And yes, in your smuggler campaign were also rocks, so I will try to look for them. Anyway, the Harverster crushing me happens when I have my army splitted in two and the Atreides only had the barracks and a couple of wintraps lefts. It's just that, looking at the harverster killing my 10 soldiers I was like "oh... true, this is the original rule".

Yeah! I thought it was interesting. That's part of the reason I changed up the tech in my own mod - infantry were quite difficult to use because they're cannon fodder. No healing, easily destroyed by most targets... not only did changing the tech tree so the Trike / Trooper and Quad / Grenadier come out at the same times help balance the dynamic between vehicle and infantry in the early game (anti-vehicle infantry, anti-infantry vehicle, vice versa), but allowing infantry to patch themselves up to a point gives them greater utility and life expectancy, so long as they don't come up against grenades, cannons, or treads.

They're still cannon fodder, but they're certainly more versatile!

44 minutes ago, Cm_blast said:

Don't need to remove all the time, just reduce a bit. For example, in this map I trigger the message saying something about the Atreides not having energy and at the same time the "being annihilated" message. just with %250-350 timer gives me enough time to read those text and I don't need to wait too much until the "mission accomplished" text appears.

About indexes. The other modder, the one about 4 Harkonnen Sub-factions uploaded a file with all the indexes possible. Check that post.
Also, since you are using TibEd you even can use those indexes that behave like the Emperor.

Right, yeah.

I actually referenced that index already! I found it rather odd it only went up to 200. You'd think it would go up to like 255 or something.

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Fey said:

Yeah, I thought that was really interesting! I haven't actually read the book, so I was seeing it for the first time. Despite this, I do remember certain concepts, like the Jom Gabbar and Harkonnen occupation of Shield Wall, and I feel like I know more than I did before about the story. :D

Yeah, I tried to be very basic for people who didn't read it, but enough to say "hey, that name/scene is familiar".
Of course, some missions are just inventions of mine to have a reason to fight. For example mission 3, Leto and Paul Atreides figthing against some Harkonnen that didn't wanted to leave Arrakis. Is true that in the book the Harkonnen sabotage their own equipment and let some traps and assasins around, but is not like there is a battle there.

8 hours ago, Fey said:

I actually referenced that index already! I found it rather odd it only went up to 200. You'd think it would go up to like 255 or something.

I think there is a limit, but I don't remember the number. If you want to know use a test map and place a heavy factory for Atreides, Harkonnen, etc... also a couple of units like a quad, a tank, a trooper... and from there trying the indexes. 201 for Atreides, 202 for Harkonnen etc... so you can test 8 index in a single run.

I think the index 33 is Harkonnen and the colour is very similar like the smuggler one (a bit darker), 

Edited by Cm_blast
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2 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

Yeah, I tried to be very basic for people who didn't read it, but enough to say "hey, that name/scene is familiar".
Of course, some missions are just inventions of mine to have a reason to fight. For example mission 3, Leto and Paul Atreides figthing against some Harkonnen that didn't wanted to leave Arrakis. Is true that in the book the Harkonnen sabotage their own equipment and let some traps and assasins around, but is not like there is a battle there.

Well, it worked out, I must say.

2 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

I think there is a limit, but I don't remember the number. If you want to know use a test map and place a heavy factory for Atreides, Harkonnen, etc... also a couple of units like a quad, a tank, a trooper... and from there trying the indexes. 201 for Atreides, 202 for Harkonnen etc... so you can test 8 index in a single run.

I think the index 33 is Harkonnen and the colour is very similar like the smuggler one (a bit darker), 

I believe I did test it at one point, but I didn't jot anything down. The Atreides color in index... I think it was 32, actually looks really good. Need to check out more allocation indexes in-game.

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Posted (edited)

Ok, Played the two other maps.

The first with the Fremen, I could suggest to add some kind of attack for the Fremen. I mean, I build everything and the army I wanted and, besides a couple of Fremen attacking my harverster because is near them, they don't do anything to the player, is a 100% full defensive map.

At least you can spawn a few Fremen, don't need to be a big mega-army-attack, but 2-3 Fremen here and there, you know, to do something. some loops, or timer, or intervals... you even can talk about them in the briefing like they are scouting or wandering, and thats because you ecounter a few of them here or there going against your base.

Also, A reveal map where the VMC would be appreciated. I took 2 sietchs, went agains the far one. I destroy it. CY deployed. Then I splitted my group in two, one two the right, another to the bottom. I heard the sound of the Fremen, but didn't know for where. The Fremen were attacking the CY from the unexplored area, and since they are strong against buildings there isn't time to defend (and they didn't return fire, they continue the attack agains the building, so not enough time to killing before they destroy the CY).

And the other map, well, the Atreides didn't rush my base, but they were amassing tons of units, so probably eventually will happen the same.

Here a couple of screenshots with some things (click to enlarge them).
Dibujo1.PNG.24325e09e4890339526176e9e7a80425.PNG <-- The Atreides Harverster went directly there. I don't know if you played this way, but this could be enough to make the Atreides angry. In this case I lost the few soldiers that survived the starport attack, so I didn't attack the Harverster and they don't even care about my base either.

Dibujo3.PNG.080ec54a00a593a5ee932afac9b88c04.PNG <-- Atreides amassing units. If I had a single unit in the previous image and attacked the Harverster even by accident, all thouse units will march, but until then... they only wait there.

This other two images were several minutes later:
58fa28212daa1_Dibujo41.PNG.1bba7b914d5743c2edd22a72361d1d99.PNG <-- My harverster just are going near the Atreides base, so they are in defensive state and began to destroy my harverster in this area (but ignoring the base; like 3 minutes later they attack it and destroy it).
58fa28446023c_Dibujo42.PNG.08cf8e18e32878ebf32500865a941d4f.PNG <-- and while all those units are just "defending" the surronding, the faction still continuing to build stuff preparing the next attack, so this is the reason they rush you. They stop attacking and, if the Harverster is attacked (or maybe enough time passed), they send all that group.

I have two theorys about this, but first, a Question: ¿Is this one faction the one that after 1 of 2 attacks they stop going? (I don't count the final-big-rush). Because if yes I already know the thing.
 

Edited by Cm_blast
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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

Ok, Played the two other maps.

The first with the Fremen, I could suggest to add some kind of attack for the Fremen. I mean, I build everything and the army I wanted and, besides a couple of Fremen attacking my harverster because is near them, they don't do anything to the player, is a 100% full defensive map.

At least you can spawn a few Fremen, don't need to be a big mega-army-attack, but 2-3 Fremen here and there, you know, to do something. some loops, or timer, or intervals... you even can talk about them in the briefing like they are scouting or wandering, and thats because you ecounter a few of them here or there going against your base.

Also, A reveal map where the VMC would be appreciated. I took 2 sietchs, went agains the far one. I destroy it. CY deployed. Then I splitted my group in two, one two the right, another to the bottom. I heard the sound of the Fremen, but didn't know for where. The Fremen were attacking the CY from the unexplored area, and since they are strong against buildings there isn't time to defend (and they didn't return fire, they continue the attack agains the building, so not enough time to killing before they destroy the CY).

And the other map, well, the Atreides didn't rush my base, but they were amassing tons of units, so probably eventually will happen the same.

Here a couple of screenshots with some things (click to enlarge them).
Dibujo1.PNG.24325e09e4890339526176e9e7a80425.PNG <-- The Atreides Harverster went directly there. I don't know if you played this way, but this could be enough to make the Atreides angry. In this case I lost the few soldiers that survived the starport attack, so I didn't attack the Harverster and they don't even care about my base either.

Dibujo3.PNG.080ec54a00a593a5ee932afac9b88c04.PNG <-- Atreides amassing units. If I had a single unit in the previous image and attacked the Harverster even by accident, all thouse units will march, but until then... they only wait there.

This other two images were several minutes later:
58fa28212daa1_Dibujo41.PNG.1bba7b914d5743c2edd22a72361d1d99.PNG <-- My harverster just are going near the Atreides base, so they are in defensive state and began to destroy my harverster in this area (but ignoring the base; like 3 minutes later they attack it and destroy it).
58fa28446023c_Dibujo42.PNG.08cf8e18e32878ebf32500865a941d4f.PNG <-- and while all those units are just "defending" the surronding, the faction still continuing to build stuff preparing the next attack, so this is the reason they rush you. They stop attacking and, if the Harverster is attacked (or maybe enough time passed), they send all that group.

I have two theorys about this, but first, a Question: ¿Is this one faction the one that after 1 of 2 attacks they stop going? (I don't count the final-big-rush). Because if yes I already know the thing.
 

I think I ran out of events on H1V2. Will have to see if there's room for an interval attack somewhere. The level's very short, I kept attacking at a nice pace, so it wasn't that big a deal for me during testing.

Shortly after the MCV is deployed, you have shared vision with the side that owns it. That should suffice for reveal map... right?

As for H2V1, I do indeed believe that side 3, the one you showed there, was the one that came at me with a crapload of units after only a couple of normal attacks. What could possibly be causing that to happen? For clarification, that DID NOT occur during consecutive tests. It only happened once.

Edited by Fey
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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Fey said:

I think I ran out of events on H1V2. Will have to see if there's room for an interval attack somewhere. The level's very short, I kept attacking at a nice pace, so it wasn't that big a deal for me during testing.

Shortly after the MCV is deployed, you have shared vision with the side that owns it. That should suffice for reveal map... right?

Well, I didn't know exactly what will happen after I destroy a sietch; you warn about " - Expect resistance at each Sietch, even after they're razed." so I just took my time to build the army. Who knows how many tanks you will spawn (I still have nightmares because your smuggler campaign xD).

You can do another way. For example, you have 2 Fremen spawming next from a sietch. You can reconvert that to appear always, not only when no units are present, a very small guardgroupside to avoid grouping all those new Fremen, and firstattack and timebetweenattack set to 1000 or something like that, so he creates 2 Fremen, he send them, he creates another 2, he send them (or 4-6 at most). But anyway, that's was only an idea. If you want to maintain the rule for all the maps/campaigns with the only spawning if no other units are present that's ok for me too.

Not exactly. buildings don't have vision, only the units. Here is the proof.
ffffr.PNG.9dc0b9fd3e4f8951b130be414dfec7bc.PNGffffr2.PNG.3407c6c7b0266c57452dec4ba5ea4f16.PNG <-- the VCM is already building concrete, but I cannot see anything.

Usually you can see the ally base because the units wandering around it. 

 

1 hour ago, Fey said:

As for H2V1, I do indeed believe that side 3, the one you showed there, was the one that came at me with a crapload of units after only a couple of normal attacks. What could possibly be causing that to happen? For clarification, that DID NOT occur during consecutive tests. It only happened once.

I can tell you, this will happen in the future more times. The culprit is the Time between attacks.
You have exactly this number = 6250
While I was doing my based on Dune 2 campaign, I was using "7500" as the default time between attacks. Being 2 enemies building at a good pace was good, but when only 1 enemy is present (and low tech), the Ai just waits too much, the player has enough time to build everything and the AI only do the "first attack" wave, so I reduced to a half, this means 3750.

I have 6 levels (2 per faction) with only 1 enemy, so all were using that number. What happens? depending of the map (but happening always), the AI stop attacking. Some maps after the 2º wave, others after the fourth, but sooner or later that will happens.

And then, in my mission 9 with three enemies at once 7500 was too opresive, being constatly attacked the player don't have time to rest, so I just added a extra of 50% of time between attacks, this means 11250. Then I test the map and... again... at least 1 of the Ais suddenly stop the attacks, and never attack again.

So... 3750 and 11250 have in commond... they only have 1 zero. I can't tell you the true reason why this makes the AI go dumb, but I guarantee you: happens.
As a workaround I give of them "3751" and "11251" respectively. 3700/3800 and 11200/11300 should be a better choice, but in my stubbornness desire a perfect -50% and +50% from the default 7500.

The problem never happened again, and for this kind of test I always place 50 devastators and let the game play while I set the timer to -2 so I can check the time that has passed. 30 minutes in, and those single/3 enemies still were attacking (and the mission 9 of that campaig take at least 1 hour, so the attacks were still going with the "11251" number).

If you want to make sure that does not happen again, change it to any number with at least 2 zeroes.

Pd: Another reason why a AI can attack less often has to do with the morale attack building. But the only 1 zero is crucial, since for this campaign I have it to 100 so they aren't affectted by that.

Edited by Cm_blast
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