[Release] Smugglers Campaign

[Runtowin]

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  On 3/21/2018 at 1:06 PM, Fey said:

did you need to restart or somethin

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Mission failed. Timer ran out. Had to restart.

  On 3/21/2018 at 1:06 PM, Fey said:

What unit composition did you use to defend the Sietch? I prefer Grenadiers and Troopers with Trikes. Makes the map very easy.

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Same as you. One for tank, one for Sardaukar.

  On 3/21/2018 at 1:06 PM, Fey said:

Hey, you skipped the bonus mission? Sure, play through all choices of the main missions but skip the bonus one.

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I forgot to write it here. Honest.

  On 3/21/2018 at 1:06 PM, Fey said:

Holy hell, how did you break this map so much? The briefing explicitly states that you must form an alliance with either of the Houses as the primary objective. You're smugglers, not mercenaries! Combat is not necessarily the goal, or at least not the immediate goal, of the campaign.

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Because their base was so weak, that I thought "Why would I, the great Summers, bow down to such a bad commander?". Other reason is I thought you had already prepared the dialogue for it.

  On 3/21/2018 at 1:06 PM, Fey said:

Aye. What did you think of the dialogue between Summers and Durant? He said he'd defend, so you should attack, and he had a reaction to your decision with the Harkonnen. And, did he defend your Harvesters and base very well, or did you have to help him here or there?

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He did. He rarely needed any help. By the time I got there, it was often his win.

I moved my Harvester to the spice field near Mercenary's base since it was closer and safer.

  On 3/21/2018 at 1:06 PM, Fey said:

Do you think I should relocate the smuggler and mercenary bases so the Harkonnen have more space to themselves?

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Depend on your intended difficulty, I'd remove most defensive turret on my side, and add more guard/turret to their side, also more credit, so their economy won't die so fast.

  On 3/21/2018 at 1:06 PM, Fey said:

How did you approach the enemy on this map? They have a large and formidable base. And hey, those reinforcements aren't infinite! I added those because the secondary AI occasionally broke during testing. Not only are there only a few units in those reinforcements, but the Outpost can be destroyed to prevent further drops! It's fair.

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I attacked from the south, completely ignored the starpost. I scouted his base from the start, so I knew his army composition. Before the attack, I hunted harvesters for awhile to lure most of his troops out then I stationed my troops where my starting position was.

The moment my army was strong enough, I went in and I focused on his windtrap. Once I got rid of all windtrap on rightmost side, the rest of the base became trivial.

  On 3/21/2018 at 1:06 PM, Fey said:

That's okay, I appreciate the testing on its own. Where did you set up your MCV?

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Near the Ixian Starpost, I had enough space for one barrack, one light factory, one refinery, 5 turrets, and enough windtrap to got it running. I didn't expand my base, as I felt it was unnecessary.

  On 3/21/2018 at 1:06 PM, Fey said:

And, you didn't comment on the mod, either! Cm had a lot of qualms about the more expensive buildings and upgrades. What do you think of all that? And what did you think of Troopers and Trikes on S1, and Quads and Grenadiers on S2 / S3? Isn't the tech changed up nicely?

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TBH, I didn't really play any different from other non-modded campaign. My build order was always (not counting windtrap) Refinery -> Heavy Factory -> Refinery -> Repair pad -> ...  -> Starpost  -> ... -> Light Factory -> ...  -> Barrack.

Barrack was always afterthought. I only built barrack in early mission because I didn't have anything else.

The increasing cost was offset by my spam of harvester, which was cheaper. Most mission ended with me having 10-20 Harvesters.

Troopers was always borderline OP. Raider/Trike/Quad are useful for kiting. I liked your change overall. I didn't use Grenadier much. I trained them for defensive purpose only.

  On 3/21/2018 at 1:06 PM, Fey said:

Good question. Summers actually asks about that in the briefing, but Moriaen recommends the rock to the south, although she also says she doesn't mind if you set up in her base. So, that was an intentional choice.

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I always set up my base my ally's base if I could. Always an advantage. I did that so many times in other campaigns.

  On 3/21/2018 at 1:06 PM, Fey said:

I'm glad to hear that the mercenaries held their own fairly well, although I'm thinking I should strengthen enemy attacks and make it more engaging at midfield

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Agree.

  On 3/21/2018 at 1:06 PM, Fey said:

This map is currently undertuned. I'll be looking for ways to increase enemy difficulty for sure. How'd you manage the two air strike squads? Did you spread your structures, tech right up to Starport for Missile Tanks, place lots of Concrete...?

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I split my base into 2, like I said. One in Mercenary's base, other is starting position. Each air strike attacked different base. And I always overbuilt on such map, partially to shut "Silo needed" up.

So no defensive missile tank. Concrete was only for starpost, silo and windtrap.

However, starting S7, I concrete all my buidling, expecting air strike.

  On 3/21/2018 at 1:13 PM, Fey said:

Oh wow, that's a good find. I think I'll move that Refinery back a tad.

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I could actually destroy barrack & light factory as well, but not cost-efficient at that time. You may want them to have some starting units.

  On 3/21/2018 at 1:13 PM, Fey said:

The solution? Do you mean... you prefer it harder, this way? I do as well, but it's difficult striking a balance. There are so many things a player might do, like what you did on S3V1, so. There's a lot to consider! I appreciate all the testing and feedback, this will help immensely when I update the campaign again.

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I meant that I had to fortify my position and dealing with enemy's harassment. I had to flank to get around the defense, I  did a bold raid early to gain upper hand.

Previous missions consisted of me overpowering both in economy and military and I paid zero care about harvesters.

 

 

S3B1:
 

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- The movement of Summers was great. I lost all my trikes by early mistake, and I let Summers' heath down to red. Other than that, as long as I lead the way, this mission didn't give me any trouble.

- There was a delay when Summers reached the base before the Sietch destroyed. Probably intended.

 

 

S8V1:
 

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- This mission is a tad easier than S7V1. My harvesters stole Ordos' spice as usual. Enemy's attack was not too hard. Ordos could fend of attack on their own.

- Ordos built over my space! To deal with this, I captured Emperor's base where you told me to destroy for mercenary, then fortified my base there. Enemy focused on my 5 turrets, where Durant actually helped me with his troops. Yay! Way to go, Durant!

- Afterward, enemy stopped caring about (except air strike) my southeast base and Ordos, allowing both Ordos and mercenary to grow nice and strong.

- Usual tactic, mass a bunch of troop --> win.

 

 

  On 3/21/2018 at 1:24 PM, Cm_blast said:

Plot twist, he it's not even using your modded stuff xD. That would be hilarious.

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No twist this time!

 

I did have fun playing your campaign. I assure you that I tried to break your campaign, and experimented with different strategy.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Runtowin

[Fey]

  On 3/21/2018 at 2:24 PM, Runtowin said:

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Mission failed. Timer ran out. Had to restart.

Same as you. One for tank, one for Sardaukar.

I forgot to write it here. Honest.

Because their base was so weak, that I thought "Why would I, the great Summers, bow down to such a bad commander?". Other reason is I thought you had already prepared the dialogue for it.

He did. He rarely needed any help. By the time I got there, it was often his win.

I moved my Harvester to the spice field near Mercenary's base since it was closer and safer.

Depend on your intended difficulty, I'd remove most defensive turret on my side, and add more guard/turret to their side, also more credit, so their economy won't die so fast.

I attacked from the south, completely ignored the starpost. I scouted his base from the start, so I knew his army composition. Before the attack, I hunted harvesters for awhile to lure most of his troops out then I stationed my troops where my starting position was.

The moment my army was strong enough, I went in and I focused on his windtrap. Once I got rid of all windtrap on rightmost side, the rest of the base became trivial.

Near the Ixian Starpost, I had enough space for one barrack, one light factory, one refinery, 5 turrets, and enough windtrap to got it running. I didn't expand my base, as I felt it was unnecessary.

TBH, I didn't really play any different from other non-modded campaign. My build order was always (not counting windtrap) Refinery -> Heavy Factory -> Refinery -> Repair pad -> ...  -> Starpost  -> ... -> Light Factory -> ...  -> Barrack.

Barrack was always afterthought. I only built barrack in early mission because I didn't have anything else.

The increasing cost was offset by my spam of harvester, which was cheaper. Most mission ended with me having 10-20 Harvesters.

Troopers was always borderline OP. Raider/Trike/Quad are useful for kiting. I liked your change overall. I didn't use Grenadier much. I trained them for defensive purpose only.

I always set up my base my ally's base if I could. Always an advantage. I did that so many times in other campaigns.

Agree.

I split my base into 2, like I said. One in Mercenary's base, other is starting position. Each air strike attacked different base. And I always overbuilt on such map, partially to shut "Silo needed" up.

So no defensive missile tank. Concrete was only for starpost, silo and windtrap.

However, starting S7, I concrete all my buidling, expecting air strike.

I could actually destroy barrack & light factory as well, but not cost-efficient at that time. You may want them to have some starting units.

I meant that I had to fortify my position and dealing with enemy's harassment. I had to flank to get around the defense, I  did a bold raid early to gain upper hand.

Previous missions consisted of me overpowering both in economy and military and I paid zero care about harvesters.

 

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S1V1: Oh. Well, after it became obvious, did it make more sense to you? ^_^ I'll try and figure out how to make it more obvious.

S2V2: Alright, just wondering. Yeah, those infantry really kick ass!

S3V1: I wanted to make it explicitly clear with either version of S2 that the player is at a serious disadvantage when it comes to the other houses. "The Great Summers" is a feeling for, like, S7V1 and on. XD Maybe even after S5's finished. Around S3, you're supposed to be looking for alliances so you don't get your ass handed to you!

S3V2: That's great. He's supposed to be a reliable ally; the player is meant to like him and get a sense of cooperation between him and Summers.

S4V1: The Harkonnen already have quite a lot of defenses! Maybe I should make them attack less often, or with less strength, so they keep more units for defense. Okay, I think I've got some ideas.

S5V1: AAAAGH, that's frustrating! Why does everyone set up inside the Ixian base? In the latest update, I spread the Ixian structures and added rocks in inconvenient places to encourage the player to take his MCV to any of the super open and much larger rock islands all over the map. T_T I guess it's because the Ix lost a bunch of structures to begin with, so you had some space?

It's not really an advantage on this map since they don't have any production. The location is pretty nice, but you'd have access to more Spice in the center of the map, greater map control, and much more convenient rock placement. Isn't that reason enough to expand?

I like to attack from the west, personally. That base entrance is way more open and some Wind Traps aren't far from there. Going up through the middle with infantry doesn't hurt either, and your focus on enemy Harvesters was wise.

About the mod:
The Starport requires an HTF, which requires an Outpost, which requires a Barracks. The Barracks must be built first to tech up to Starports. Oh, but I guess you start with an Outpost on a lot of smuggler missions since it's a standard structure for smuggler bases, so. Yep!

I think you should explore the Barracks more. Infantry in my mod do face greater threats, like Grenadiers, and Siege Tanks were buffed a tad. However, all infantry units can self-heal up to 50% HP! They can be extremely useful for drawn-out assaults or for base defense. Like the ridge on S2V1. Considering that you like Repair Pads, you might like the infantry in my mod as well. Infantry have the highest DPS in the game when stacked up, but they're also pretty delicate. If used with care, in small squads, you'll find those five Troopers you bring up to take down the outlying turrets in an enemy base will last a long time if you can properly cover them.

Indeed, having cheaper Refineries but more expensive Harvesters when going back to the default version totally threw my gameplay out of whack after I got used to this mod. XD However, building so many Harvesters isn't really all that necessary! As long as you can sustain your funds, you could focus more on production. That's the idea of making the Harvesters less expensive.

Grenadiers are great for defense, but they also make excellent support infantry. Train a few Grenadiers for your Quads and Combat Tanks! They'll blow through walls, other infantry, Missile Tanks, deal area-effect damage to Trikes and Raiders, and they'll hardly dent Quads and Combat Tanks. So, they can tag along with them and prove pretty darn useful! Troopers remain the most useful common infantry, I think, and they're even more useful considering they self-heal with my mod!

S6V1: That's fair.

S6V2: That's also fair. By the way, you can get rid of the "Silos needed." message by clicking on and cancelling Starport orders. The Spice you put in to a Starport order will come from your Silos / Refineries, and the Spice you're refunded by cancelling an order is not put back in to those Silos. Just a fun little fact.

S7V1: W0t? But the briefing said Sumadi is behind the attacks and he's a smuggler. He won't use Ornithopters!

I'll see about adding some starting units up there, or more if I have already. Thanks for that.

So, the map difficulty was an improvement? I agree that things should be reasonably difficult, though S7 is considered overtuned at this time.

 

  On 3/21/2018 at 2:24 PM, Runtowin said:

S3B1:

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- The movement of Summers was great. I lost all my trike by early mistake, and I let Summers' heath down to red. Other than that, as long as I lead the way, this mission didn't give me any trouble.

- There was a delay when Summers reached the base before the Sietch destroyed. Probably intended.

 

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S3B1:

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I'm glad you liked Summers' movement. I came up with the concept for S2V2, but ran with it full-time for S3B1. It's not meant to be a very challenging map, just a fun little story segment on "this is how Summers escaped S2 and made it to S3 alive." Indeed, the threats on the map are substantial, but Summers is hard to kill if you keep on top of her.

That delay was hopefully not TOO long. It's because the Imperial reinforcements down south that kill the Sietch are infinite, so I don't want them to show up too often. I guess I could have 'em show up twice, that'd be fine.

 

  On 3/21/2018 at 2:24 PM, Runtowin said:

S8V1:

 

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- This mission is a tad easier than S7V1. My harvesters steals Ordos' spice as usual. Enemy's attack was not too hard. Ordos can fend attack on their own.

- Ordos built over my space! To deal with this, I captured Emperor's base where you told me to destroy for mercenary, then fortified my base there. Enemy focused on my 5 turrets, where Durant actually helped me with his troops. Yay! Way to go, Durant!

- Afterward, enemy stopped caring about (except air strike) my southeast base and Ordos, allowed both Ordos and mercenary to grow nice and strong.

- Usual tactics, mass a bunch of troop --> win.

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S8V1:

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Having an ally makes a huge difference, for sure. The attacks weren't too easy though, right?

Hehe, yeah. I think I'll tear up the terrain a little to restrict the Ordos a little. Capturing that base was a good decision, one I choose arbitrarily on my own run. And Durant on S8 and S9, and Moriaen, are both quite capable!

The friendly AIs on this map will absolutely tear the Imperials and Atreides to shreds if given the chance to build up. I wanted to encourage more defensive play on this map.

Lol, not JUST Troopers, right?

 

  On 3/21/2018 at 2:24 PM, Runtowin said:

No twist this time!

I did have fun playing your campaign. I assure you that I tried to break your campaign, and experimented with different strategy.

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I'm glad that you were trying to break it. XD And that you had fun.

[Runtowin]

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  On 3/21/2018 at 1:06 PM, Fey said:

Do you think there is something else I should add to the ridge to make it more appealing? Maybe I should make the Grenadier reinforcements you get appear at the middle, that would provide some set-up.

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I'd like to build a forward base there. Get MCV there, train unit. Grenadier is good, but I doubt a small reinforcement would change anything.

  On 3/21/2018 at 4:21 PM, Fey said:

S1V1: Oh. Well, after it became obvious, did it make more sense to you? ^_^ I'll try and figure out how to make it more obvious.

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Yep, more like, too obvious that I thought I was being stupid or something.

  On 3/21/2018 at 4:21 PM, Fey said:

AAAAGH, that's frustrating! Why does everyone set up inside the Ixian base? In the latest update, I spread the Ixian structures and added rocks in inconvenient places to encourage the player to take his MCV to any of the super open and much larger rock islands all over the map. T_T I guess it's because the Ix lost a bunch of structures to begin with, so you had some space?

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Not really. I thought Harkonnen's attack was more fierce, so it's not ideal to try to protect 2 locations at once. I even thought that map was another no-timer defense map.

 

  On 3/21/2018 at 4:21 PM, Fey said:

He won't use Ornithopters!

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I wouldn't know that! Hidden ace up his sleeve perhaps?

  On 3/21/2018 at 4:21 PM, Fey said:

Lol, not JUST Troopers, right?

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I will become a legend if I did!

S9V1:

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- I don't like the fact that you had to suicide your stealth raider to progress. I even scouted all locations with dialogue, sustained no damage. Good commander wouldn't waste his men that easily.

- Moreover, there is no indication that you had to do that. In briefing, you said losing them was ok.

- After that, your starting location is well-defended by your ally. However, I had to set up a second CY in the middle for additional defense.

- The AI didn't cause me any trouble really. Win with swarming tactic as usual.

- The map seems well-made than the others. Good job.

- Little harder than S8V1, I would say.

- Tried to use Grenadier, they were more useful than Trooper.

 

S9V2:

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- What? AI rebuild turret? Kinda unfair, had to move my raider over to prevent him from ever re-building. The AI stopped trying after awhile.

- After I captured the base,... I realized that this was a 1vs7 map or something after seeing endless enemy coming. RIP harvesters.

- I extended my base to the north after taking out the Imperial force there. I built a turret wall, a fortified defense location, making them pay for it by stealing silo. Then proceed to swarming each side, took them down one-by-one. The order was Starting Position -> North Imperial Base -> Southeast Imperial Base -> Harkonnen -> Atreides -> The rest of the Emperor's bases (3 total).

- The emperor's force kept patrolling everywhere. Probably because you made his base too big.

- Finally, after 2h30min real time. I completed the last mission.

- Compared to S9V1, this map is way harder. Give me an ally at least.

- Again, Grenadier proved useful.

 

[Fey]

  On 3/21/2018 at 6:21 PM, Runtowin said:

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I'd like to build a forward base there. Get MCV there, train unit. Grenadier is good, but I doubt a small reinforcement would change anything.

Yep, more like, too obvious that I thought I was being stupid or something.

Not really. I thought Harkonnen's attack was more fierce, so it's not ideal to try to protect 2 locations at once. I even thought that map was another no-timer defense map.

I wouldn't know that! Hidden ace up his sleeve perhaps?

I will become a legend if I did!

 

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A forward base. I'll consider adding some rock, probably not on the ridge itself but very close behind it.

Hehe. Well perhaps I don't need to change that in that case.

The terrain is built so the rock to the north is where the Harkonnen will attack through in order to get to the Ix. In other words, there'd be only one location you'd need to defend because they'd go through you to get to the Ix.

Yeah, that is a fair point. Maybe I could give him some Sonic Tanks or something. I was thinking of doing some stuff with the Spacing Guild, which could be responsible for shipping forces for the Great Houses, minus illegal tech like Deviators, buuut... *shrugs*

Haha. Try beating the Imperial AI on S2V1 XD That's pretty unlikely! Some players have done it, it's just pointless and difficult. The map wasn't designed for them to be beaten.

 

  On 3/21/2018 at 6:21 PM, Runtowin said:

S9V1:

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- I don't like the fact that you had to suicide your stealth raider to progress. I even scouted all locations with dialogue, sustained no damage. Good commander wouldn't waste his men that easily.

- Moreover, there is no indication that you had to do that. In briefing, you said losing them was ok.

- After that, your starting location is well-defended by your ally. However, I had to set up a second CY in the middle for additional defense.

- The AI didn't cause me any trouble really. Win with swarming tactic as usual.

- The map seems well-made than the others. Good job.

- Little harder than S8V1, I would say.

- Tried to use Grenadier, they were more useful than Trooper.

 

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I've been trying to figure out a way to get the "if you explore everything, you can proceed" trigger in there, but I haven't found room for it yet. Sorry about that. As I said, D2k's kinda limited, so some ideas can't be fully fleshed out so easily. I could clarify that in the briefing, at least.

A second CY in the middle? Atop the ruins of the mercenary base there?

They have some serious weak points on this map, but hopefully they gave you a good fight at midfield.

More well-made? What about the other maps was sub-par compared to this one?

The Grenadiers continue to be amazing support, especially on any map where they send Sardaukar or Fremen at you.

 

  On 3/21/2018 at 6:21 PM, Runtowin said:

S9V2:

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- What? AI rebuild turret? Kinda unfair, had to move my raider over to prevent him from ever re-building. The AI stopped trying after awhile.

- After I captured the base,... I realized that this was a 1vs7 map or something after seeing endless enemy coming. RIP harvesters.

- I extended my base to the north after taking out the Imperial force there. I built a turret wall, a fortified defense location, making them pay for it by stealing silo. Then proceed to swarming each side, took them down one-by-one. The order was Starting Position -> North Imperial Base -> Southeast Imperial Base -> Harkonnen -> Atreides -> The rest of the Emperor's bases (3 total).

- The emperor's force kept patrolling everywhere. Probably because you made his base too big.

- Finally, after 2h30min real time. I completed the last mission.

- Compared to S9V1, this map is way harder. Give me an ally at least.

- Again, Grenadier proved useful.

 

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They stop trying on their own after the first or second attempts. For the record, they are set to build only up to 3 LGTs, so I have absolutely no idea why they rebuild those nor do I have any idea how to stop them.

RIP Harvesters indeed. The briefing encourages you to attack very aggressively. And yeah, the southeast Imperial base is a nice convenient spot to pick on first, after the one directly north of you.

Oh no, the Imperial defense forces are split across several AIs with defense zones far out of the way of the player's base. There shouldn't be too much of an issue where the Imperials will bring defense forces right into your base.

Huh? You DO get an ally. After you take out the Imperial base directly north of you, the Ordos and mercs show up. Although... Cm showed during testing that, for some reason, they were hostile. So, I thought this map was broken, but if you finished it, it's not... but if you didn't get allies... what gives? I really hope I broke something because this sounds totally bizarre.

I mean, hell, it's in the briefing that the Ordos base must be guarded. A primary objective. So, they and Durant should have shown up at some point to make this map WAY easier. Like, just-over-an-hour-and-not-two-and-a-half-hours-long easier.

Still, I have to commend you on finishing it in the current state. Where did you use your Grenadiers? Bring them along for any attacks this time? And, was taking out that north base easy enough? It's supposed to be relatively easy so if you're quick you can take it out and get some allies before they REALLY start sending hell down your way.

Thanks so much for testing this campaign, Runtowin. If you'd like to try the currently available Harkonnen maps, which are much more in a WIP state (although I have experience now, so they're off to a better start than this campaign), here's the thread with a link to the latest post, where the most recent DL can be found: https://forum.dune2k.com/topic/27514-wip-harkonnen-campaign-progress-thread/?do=findComment&comment=394977

Edited March 21, 2018 by Fey

[Cm_blast]

  On 3/21/2018 at 2:24 PM, Runtowin said:

No twist this time!

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Bad, Fey loves good plot twist xD (I'm sorry for intruding on your conversation).

  On 3/21/2018 at 7:08 PM, Fey said:

- Finally, after 2h30min real time. I completed the last mission.

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He, I said some post ago "I am prepared for the 2 hour long on the last mission", and here we have a player that did it

  On 3/21/2018 at 7:08 PM, Fey said:

only up to 3 LGTs, so I have absolutely no idea why they rebuild those nor do I have any idea how to stop them.

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I am not sure what part of the map of which AI it is about, but if the AI it's not in "practice" mode they don't care about building limits. The original maps have a limit of 1, but the AI always rebuild anything that you destroy. The only way to stop them it's or removing the CY or the "rebuildbuildings" set to 0 (but that'll affect the rest of the buildings to).

However, the AI section have a "TimeBeforeRebuilding <building>". You can try to increase the value for the turrets so the AI takes 15-20 minutes to rebuild it or something like that (but still rebuilding everything else at a normal pace). I don't know if that line works, but you can try it.

  On 3/21/2018 at 7:08 PM, Fey said:

Cm showed during testing that, for some reason, they were hostile.

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For the record. They show as "ally" on screen (not enemy or neutral units), so a change if alliances it's not done right and you are ally with them but them are neutral toward you.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Cm_blast

[Fey]

  On 3/21/2018 at 8:21 PM, Cm_blast said:

Bad, Fey loves good plot twist xD (I'm sorry for intruding on your conversation).

He, I said some post ago "I am prepared for the 2 hour long on the last mission", and here we have a player that did it

I am not sure what part of the map of which AI it is about, but if the AI it's not in "practice" mode they don't care about building limits. The original maps have a limit of 1, but the AI always rebuild anything that you destroy. The only way to stop them it's or removing the CY or the "rebuildbuildings" set to 0 (but that'll affect the rest of the buildings to).

However, the AI section have a "TimeBeforeRebuilding <building>". You can try to increase the value for the turrets so the AI takes 15-20 minutes to rebuild it or something like that (but still rebuilding everything else at a normal pace). I don't know if that line works, but you can try it.

For the record. They show as "ally" on screen (not enemy or neutral units), so a change if alliances it's not done right and you are ally with them but them are neutral toward you.

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XD This is a good not-twist! lol

Yeah, no kidding! Good going, Runtowin.

Ohh, I see. Okay, I'll try increasing the rebuilding time. That'll do it.

Yeah, I'll be sure to fix that. Whatever it is. XD I don't know how I manage to break something every single time I come out with a new update. T_T

[Runtowin]

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  On 3/21/2018 at 7:08 PM, Fey said:

Huh? You DO get an ally. After you take out the Imperial base directly north of you, the Ordos and mercs show up. Although... Cm showed during testing that, for some reason, they were hostile. So, I thought this map was broken, but if you finished it, it's not... but if you didn't get allies... what gives? I really hope I broke something because this sounds totally bizarre.

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Oh I get it. I didn't actually taking them out completely. Here is screenshot from my gamesave.

I often leaving harmless structure undisturbed during my conquest (you can see them on minimap).

Then, the great Summers really destroy other great houses on their own, without waiting for ally.

 

  On 3/21/2018 at 7:08 PM, Fey said:

The terrain is built so the rock to the north is where the Harkonnen will attack through in order to get to the Ix. In other words, there'd be only one location you'd need to defend because they'd go through you to get to the Ix.

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They attack from both sides during my game.

  On 3/21/2018 at 7:08 PM, Fey said:

A second CY in the middle? Atop the ruins of the mercenary base there?

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You know I have the liking to build in my ally's base! Not really ruin though. Screenshot:

(Disregard the cursor, I was holding Ctrl at that moment)

 

  On 3/21/2018 at 7:08 PM, Fey said:

More well-made? What about the other maps was sub-par compared to this one?

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I can't tell, to be fair. I thought you put more effort on terrain-ing on S9V1 than other, so they're prettier. Sorry if it's not the case.

  On 3/21/2018 at 7:08 PM, Fey said:

Still, I have to commend you on finishing it in the current state. Where did you use your Grenadiers? Bring them along for any attacks this time? And, was taking out that north base easy enough? It's supposed to be relatively easy so if you're quick you can take it out and get some allies before they REALLY start sending hell down your way.

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Just bring them for any attack.

Yes the north base was easy except you often encountered other AI attacking you at the same time.

  On 3/21/2018 at 7:08 PM, Fey said:

If you'd like to try the currently available Harkonnen maps, which are much more in a WIP state

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Maybe later. I'm tired after S9V2.

[Fey]

  On 3/21/2018 at 11:49 PM, Runtowin said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Oh I get it. I didn't actually taking them out completely. Here is screenshot from my gamesave.

I often leaving harmless structure undisturbed during my conquest (you can see them on minimap).

Then, the great Summers really destroy other great houses on their own, without waiting for ally.

 

They attack from both sides during my game.

You know I have the liking to build in my ally's base! Not really ruin though. Screenshot:

(Disregard the cursor, I was holding Ctrl at that moment)

 

I can't tell, to be fair. I thought you put more effort on terrain-ing on S9V1 than other, so they're prettier. Sorry if it's not the case.

Just bring them for any attack.

Yes the north base was easy except you often encountered other AI attacking you at the same time.

Maybe later. I'm tired after S9V2.

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  Reveal hidden contents

Ohh, you play at a high resolution. I play at the default 640x480 or whatever it is, so I don't have all that much on my screen at once. Their Wind Traps though!

Man, it was in the objectives to take out that base! XD Reeeee, maybe I should make them berserk after some stuff goes down. I dunno how much room for extra stuff I have though...

Hehe, I don't blame ya. Your feedback will be really helpful when I go back and update this campaign, I'm sure.

[Runtowin]

Now that I posted my experience, time for an actual review.

Pros:

- Good story. I can tell you spend hours on it (or maybe I'm just bad).

- Ally. Most modern RTS seems to forget that the player is not alone in the world. What unique to Dune is you actually have a strong ally.

- Twist. I love twist. I didn't expect that Durant will betray me.

- The terrain was ok-ish, except for S9V1, which is good. Too many empty space, I think. I also like the custom infantry path you made.

- 2 versions with different objectives.

 

Cons:

- Difficulty hikes after mission 6. I expect smoother line. I suggest increasing the difficulty of mission 5 & 6.

- Too many harvesters replacement event! I suggest you remove them for any AI who has Heavy Factory, please add "If refinery exist condition" for these events. This would also create space for more events.

- Player (ok, maybe only me) often confused on what to do. If the game has multiple step-by-step objective, I suggest you loop the message telling the current objective (RA2 style). That also solve the problem with mission 9.

- Most Fremen leaders was forgettable. Why bother giving them name?

- Only one side to defense. Especially in later mission, the enemy rarely attack you on more than one path. So mass turret was too effective. Ordos's Tactic 9 by Cm_blast did a nice job on this.

 

Neutrals:

- No named Fremen died in Sietch in mission 9, inconsistency.

- 2 versions. I'm not really the fan of this system, I'd prefer a route system where if you decide on option A, then you go all the way on version A.

- No twist on enemy side.

 

[Fey]

  On 3/22/2018 at 2:08 AM, Runtowin said:

Now that I posted my experience, time for an actual review.

Pros:

- Good story. I can tell you spend hours on it (or maybe I'm just bad).

- Ally. Most modern RTS seems to forget that the player is not alone in the world. What unique to Dune is you actually have a strong ally.

- Twist. I love twist. I didn't expect that Durant will betray me.

- The terrain was ok-ish, except for S9V1, which is good. Too many empty space, I think. I also like the custom infantry path you made.

- 2 versions with different objectives.

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I've written before as a hobby! So, I wanted to try and add some flair to my campaign.

Yee Not gonna have too many allies in the other campaigns, like Harkonnen for instance lol

I'm glad you liked the twists! It was fun working this one up; the smugglers didn't really have any story, so I had some room to work with.

Noted. S9V1 was actually the very last map I designed for the smugglers campaign. S9V2 presented a challenge in its construction because of its sheer size! I had to design it piece by piece because I really couldn't envision the entire map. The infantry paths made out of the one-tile thingy was something I saw in Domaithianus' maps, which I really liked! The Harkonnen campaign is built off the original maps, so I'm working with a template.

It kinda feels like I could make a linear campaign and no one would bat an eye. Maybe for the sequel?

  On 3/22/2018 at 2:08 AM, Runtowin said:

Cons:

- Difficulty hikes after mission 6. I expect smoother line. I suggest increasing the difficulty of mission 5 & 6.

- Too many harvesters replacement event! I suggest you remove them for any AI who has Heavy Factory, please add "If refinery exist condition" for these events. This would also create space for more events.

- Player (ok, maybe only me) often confused on what to do. If the game has multiple step-by-step objective, I suggest you loop the message telling the current objective (RA2 style). That also solve the problem with mission 9.

- Most Fremen leaders was forgettable. Why bother giving them name?

- Only one side to defense. Especially in later mission, the enemy rarely attack you on more than one path. So mass turret was too effective. Ordos's Tactic 9 by Cm_blast did a nice job on this.

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Right.

That's the way it was in the original campaign. I guess I could change it so they only get one if they have a Refinery, if I can find the room for that. It would take more space to get so specific, I'm certain.

Other players didn't report quite as much trouble, but more clarification couldn't hurt. For either version of S9, I made sure to list all the objectives for all phases of the maps, since they're very long and detailed. I'll probably be coming back to this campaign after I do some more to figure out more about objectives and stuff... the Harkonnen campaign is coming along better and it's more straightforward, so once I have more experience with the straight-forward stuff I can try and adjust the weirder things like the smuggler campaign.

I'll probably end up re-using some of these names in the Fremen campaign, or Atreides. Kind of like how Summers appears in H3V1 and you get to see her vengeful and prideful attitude from the enemy's perspective when you extort her for reinforcements. Some one-offs don't hurt, like how H5B1 uses a one-off Atreides low-ranking commander to paint a different picture of the battle and the attitude out there on the field. Aside from that, I want to give the impression that there are people on the field and people are dying out there!

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll be sure to have a look at that map again by Cm and see if I can't come up with some more ideas for terrain structure.

  On 3/22/2018 at 2:08 AM, Runtowin said:

Neutrals:

- No named Fremen died in Sietch in mission 9, inconsistency.

- 2 versions. I'm not really the fan of this system, I'd prefer a route system where if you decide on option A, then you go all the way on version A.

- No twist on enemy side.

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XD I think I ran out of room in the events at that time. Thanks for the heads-up.

Sequel ideas, for sure.

Whaddya mean no twists on the enemy side? If you mean like there are only twists for us, and no twists where we do something unexpected to the enemy, S5V1 has you betray the Harkonnen during the conflict. Is that what you mean?

[Runtowin]

  On 3/23/2018 at 3:34 PM, Fey said:

It kinda feels like I could make a linear campaign and no one would bat an eye. Maybe for the sequel?

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I think it's still linear the current way, as the outcome is basically the same. Think of it as meaningless choice. Unless you go full force on route system like I proposed.

I'd rather make 15 missions campaign since it's easier to be more detailed on the story.

If I need to create a choice, I'll try to couple them on the mission.

• Mission 3 of my campaign presents you a choice on how to take down the target.
• Mission 4 was actually originally intended to have 2 version, smuggler side and Atreides side.

Sure space is a problem.

  On 3/23/2018 at 3:34 PM, Fey said:

The infantry paths made out of the one-tile thingy was something I saw in Domaithianus' maps, which I really liked! The Harkonnen campaign is built off the original maps, so I'm working with a template.

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I steal replicate that on one of my upcoming mission!  That looks so cool.

 

  On 3/23/2018 at 3:34 PM, Fey said:

I'll probably end up re-using some of these names in the Fremen campaign, or Atreides. Kind of like how Summers appears in H3V1 and you get to see her vengeful and prideful attitude from the enemy's perspective when you extort her for reinforcements. Some one-offs don't hurt, like how H5B1 uses a one-off Atreides low-ranking commander to paint a different picture of the battle and the attitude out there on the field. Aside from that, I want to give the impression that there are people on the field and people are dying out there!

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Well, the thing is if you give out too many names in a short time, reader won't remember them. Especially, if that name shows up just once in the whole story.

I understand your intention. I hope you give them more roles in the story though.

 

  On 3/23/2018 at 3:34 PM, Fey said:

Other players didn't report quite as much trouble, but more clarification couldn't hurt. For either version of S9, I made sure to list all the objectives for all phases of the maps, since they're very long and detailed. I'll probably be coming back to this campaign after I do some more to figure out more about objectives and stuff... the Harkonnen campaign is coming along better and it's more straightforward, so once I have more experience with the straight-forward stuff I can try and adjust the weirder things like the smuggler campaign.

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The problem I had was I didn't know what phase I was in. My logical conclusion was destroy everything.

 

  On 3/23/2018 at 3:34 PM, Fey said:

Whaddya mean no twists on the enemy side? If you mean like there are only twists for us, and no twists where we do something unexpected to the enemy, S5V1 has you betray the Harkonnen during the conflict. Is that what you mean?

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Well, some betrayal on enemy's side perhaps? Or someone questions on the idea of taking Summers down? Poor Summers, the great, being betrayed by almost everyone they meet.

[Fey]

  On 3/23/2018 at 4:48 PM, Runtowin said:

I think it's still linear the current way, as the outcome is basically the same. Think of it as meaningless choice. Unless you go full force on route system like I proposed.

I'd rather make 15 missions campaign since it's easier to be more detailed on the story.

If I need to create a choice, I'll try to couple them on the mission.

• Mission 3 of my campaign presents you a choice on how to take down the target.
• Mission 4 was actually originally intended to have 2 version, smuggler side and Atreides side.

Sure space is a problem.

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Right. Well, I guess the purpose would be more maps to beat. Unlike the original campaign, they vary! I might make a linear campaign next.

  On 3/23/2018 at 4:48 PM, Runtowin said:

I steal replicate that on one of my upcoming mission!  That looks so cool.

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Please, use it as you'd like. The more we share our knowledge, the better our skills become.

  On 3/23/2018 at 4:48 PM, Runtowin said:

Well, the thing is if you give out too many names in a short time, reader won't remember them. Especially, if that name shows up just once in the whole story.

I understand your intention. I hope you give them more roles in the story though.

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You bet I will, man!

  On 3/23/2018 at 4:48 PM, Runtowin said:

The problem I had was I didn't know what phase I was in. My logical conclusion was destroy everything.

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Fair point. But, uhh... you read the briefing, right? Summers thinks to herself that the Imperial base directly north must be "completely leveled" first.

I know, I know, TL;DR lol but hey! It was in there!

  On 3/23/2018 at 4:48 PM, Runtowin said:

Well, some betrayal on enemy's side perhaps? Or someone questions on the idea of taking Summers down? Poor Summers, the great, being betrayed by almost everyone they meet.

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Oh, well, umm...

  Reveal hidden contents

Sumadi did betray Summers by tipping off the Harkonnen and sabotaging Summers' Starport on S5V1, so Aurelianus had to give her her own Starport. He also put Durant up to killing her on S6. Durant and Sumadi have been doing business for a long time and Durant values the smugglers' continued support over Summers' life. I was thinking in the mercenary campaign, the objective would be to capture her; he could save her life in secret while keeping her out of the picture enough for Sumadi to be like, "Okay, we cool."

I was thinking of an Ordos betrayal in a possible sequel to the smugglers' campaign too, but right now I'm more focused on finishing the Harkonnen campaign. If you were reading the dialogue in S4V1, Moriaen said something wholly uncharacteristic of the Ordos, and that was that Summers should stay out of the fight because 'her men will pointlessly die.' Summers is a character that cares about those under her, and about her colleagues, but she's also prideful and vengeful. Moriaen understands that getting to her means rubbing it in her face what's lost if she decides to fight the Ordos while not engaging her on a personal level, like Vasiliou did in S3V2.

 

[Runtowin]

  Reveal hidden contents

  On 3/23/2018 at 5:05 PM, Fey said:

Sumadi did betray Summers by tipping off the Harkonnen and sabotaging Summers' Starport on S5V1, so Aurelianus had to give her her own Starport. He also put Durant up to killing her on S6. Durant and Sumadi have been doing business for a long time and Durant values the smugglers' continued support over Summers' life.

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Technically, Summers is the one being betrayed, so not actually "enemy side only". The closest in your campaign would be Durant giving out Sumadi's plan after his failed assassination attempt, and stay as Summers' ally. However, I argue that Durant failed his contract, and saw no point to hold it a secret. Durant working with Summers after the event is strictly business.

At least that's what I think.

  On 3/23/2018 at 5:05 PM, Fey said:

Fair point. But, uhh... you read the briefing, right? Summers thinks to herself that the Imperial base directly north must be "completely leveled" first.

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Hey, that "first" is really important. I don't remember seeing that word in the briefing.

 

 

[Fey]

  On 3/23/2018 at 5:41 PM, Runtowin said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Technically, Summers is the one being betrayed, so not actually "enemy side only". The closest in your campaign would be Durant giving out Sumadi's plan after his failed assassination attempt, and stay as Summers' ally. However, I argue that Durant failed his contract, and saw no point to hold it a secret. Durant working with Summers after the event is strictly business.

At least that's what I think.

Hey, that "first" is really important. I don't remember seeing that word in the briefing.

 

 

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Ohh, you mean Summers betraying the enemy? Wouldn't that be S5V1 then? :O But yeah, you're right about that.

Hehe, I'll see if I can clarify that in the next update then.

 

[Runtowin]

  Reveal hidden contents

  On 3/23/2018 at 5:45 PM, Fey said:

Ohh, you mean Summers betraying the enemy?

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Nah, I meant enemy betraying enemy, like Harkonnen betrays Corrino.

 

[Fey]

  On 3/23/2018 at 5:52 PM, Runtowin said:

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Nah, I meant enemy betraying enemy, like Harkonnen betrays Corrino.

 

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Oh! Okay. I wasn't sure it was suitable for this particular campaign, but I'll certainly remember that in the future.

[riderr3]

Great stuff! Probably only thing which I need is proper Dune2k launcher which can load both singleplayer and multiplayer (not the one which have ads, and admin rights to launch)

[Runtowin]

I'm studying the inner working of your maps, I notice that your practice AI works without pre-placing MCV. How? Mine simply sells everything when getting MCV through reinforcement.

I see you use Airlift on a few AI. How does it work exactly?

[Cm_blast]

  On 3/25/2018 at 7:07 AM, Runtowin said:

I'm studying the inner working of your maps, I notice that your practice AI works without pre-placing MCV. How? Mine simply sells everything when getting MCV through reinforcement.

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He places a MCV in a "hidden" place on the map with only sand. As long as the AI have a available MCV the don't enter the "bersek" state. Later when the proper time is a new MCV drops and the first one it's destroyed outscreen by devastators or stuff like that.

[Fey]

Yep. I even take the hidden MCVs out of the map preview screenshots I upload to the OP. Once the main force arrives, I have something finish off the MCVs.

And hey, don't spoil ALL the things just yet! You have some more Harkonnen maps to finish, right?

Edited March 25, 2018 by Fey

[Cm_blast]

  On 3/25/2018 at 11:56 AM, Fey said:

And hey, don't spoil ALL the things just yet! You have some more Harkonnen maps to finish, right?

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The Harkonnen devastators sound shooting in mission 1-Fremen Sietchs from the Harkonnen campaign already spoil themselves xD.

"Here, infantry, troopers and trikes figthing some Fremen; Oh, ignore that devastator shooting sound you hear from time to time. Nothing to see here".

Also, Now that I finished those maps, I'll move on into the runtowin maps available.

[Fey]

  On 3/25/2018 at 3:49 PM, Cm_blast said:

The Harkonnen devastators sound shooting in mission 1-Fremen Sietchs from the Harkonnen campaign already spoil themselves xD.

"Here, infantry, troopers and trikes figthing some Fremen; Oh, ignore that devastator shooting sound you hear from time to time. Nothing to see here".

Also, Now that I finished those maps, I'll move on into the runtowin maps available.

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Maybe I should replace them with Fremen Warriors. That would make more sense.

Aye, I'm looking forward to his next releases.

[Fey]

I've got a little while to spare, so I'm working on the smuggler campaign.


Putting a small rock island south of the defensible formation makes it OP AF. Those Trooper squads eat every Quad and Combat Tank that comes my way. The above screenshot left out about eight Combat Tanks and three more Missile Tanks, too. Are you guys sure it ain't worth it as is? XD That's a screenshot from a normal mode game, a little over five mins in.

I added a couple more rock islands to the northwest and southeast that are large enough to build on, and changed up the terrain at the starting position again. S1V1 and S1V2 have already been adjusted, so, uhh, it's coming along well. If y'all have any more suggestions, now's the time to comment! I'm working on it right now, so.

Hard mode's still pretty much the same. Can hardly afford an MCV in the early game. Here's a screenshot of the midground defense strat from a few mins into a hard-mode game:


Still extremely efficient. A good 10 tanks or so came down, mostly Combat but there was a Siege and a couple of Missiles, and this is pretty much the amount of stuff I had to fend them off with. Just a couple of Troopers ate a shot from the Siege Tank before my Quads picked it off, and those are easily replaced at 100 Solaris each.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Fey

[Runtowin]

You could increase the the difficulty of no-middle strat to compensate. When I played that mission, the defense at my base is mostly automatic, even if it's not as efficient as yours. So if the player has to pay attention to defend, I think it's good.

[Fey]

Hey @Runtowin , thanks for the heads-up. Do you suppose I should remove the Medium Gun Turret at the front of the base?

I'm already up to S8V1 in the campaign revamp and I think y'all are gonna like the changes! Following your advice and Cm's, I've added new terrain and boosted aesthetics and practicality of various areas on the map, upped the difficulty leading up to S7V1, S3V1 has received a time limit for making friends, and more.