AI stopping its trains

[letsdance]

i my current test game, one of the AI companies (wilmington & goldsborough) suddenly stopped all its trains in 1945, thus generation no revenues at all. before that, it was doing quite well. i reloaded an older savegame, and the same happened again. eventually, some trains would move again 15 years later, but stop again right before the next station, where another train was still parked. then it went bankrupt. other AI companies were operating normally and i can't remember having seen this in the past. just to clarify: they were not waiting for cargo for 15 years. this is confirmed by most trains suddenly resuming operation at the same time.

does anyone have an idea what happened? in another game i noticed, AI companies running by shareholder comittees were replacing all engines with TGVxs altough they never build electric tracks. i solved this by denying them electric engines. is there a way to make the AI build electric tracks? [edit: denying them the TGVx did not stop them from buying it... the problem persists]

both issues happened on my map, enclosed is  save where the W&B has all trains stopped in 1945.

WG_bugged.rar

 

edit: i just continued, and in this game, most trains resumed operation in 1950, quick enough to prevent bankrupt  but some of them stopped again right before the next station where another train was still parked. as if they didn't want to move where this bugged train is shown. edit2: later they stopped again, it seems to be an ongoing problem.

Edited August 13, 2016 by letsdance

[jeffryfisher]

If a track is broken (by event or bankruptcy or player editing), trains that can't reach their destinations will be frozen. However, they are not "stopped", so they still occupy track and block other trains. The AI is very slow to recognize these problems and reroute trains.

If you ever use AI track and stations, your train can get pinned by such a moribund AI train that has priority but can't move. Use AI track at your peril.

Try making a copy of the saved game and then take control of the AI company (or open it in the editor). Look at the AI's train routing. Are trains trying to go places that are impossible?

BTW, I have never seen an AI company buy an electric engine. Is it the only engine available? AI companies never ever build electric track. An AI train with an electric engine ain't goin' nowhere.

[letsdance]

all trains stopping all at the same time doesn't sound like a "can't reach their destination". i also know of no event in this game that should cause such a problem. but the fact that later on the somehow managed to activate them again sounds like what you describe. i'll look at the savegame.
 

the TGVx is not the only engine available. it's actually not available at all! i've tested around but i find no way to keep the AI from building TGVx engines in 1955. they don't always do it, and they don't always replace all their engines with TGVx, but it happens fairly often. i started modding the exe yesterday and i made the TGVx a diesel engine, so hopefully it's not such a big issue anymore (though considering its purchase price and yearly replacements it probably still is).

Edited August 13, 2016 by letsdance

[letsdance]

you were right, they were unable to reach the destination. the problem is, that sometimes the AI manages to build tracks through territory that it has no access to. this happens in my map because the territories are only thin lines really. it seems that altough they somehow can build through some of those narrow gaps, they are still unable to run trains through it. i already fixed this issue, so that should also prevent the stopped trains.

[jeffryfisher]

On 8/13/2016 at 3:23 PM, letsdance said:

you were right, they were unable to reach the destination. the problem is, that sometimes the AI manages to build tracks through territory that it has no access to....

Indeed, I was about to say that I use the run-trains access event to simulate labor unrest/strike (stopping all of a company's trains temporarily). If building track and running trains are separate privileges, then the AI might get itself into a bind.

[letsdance]

but they aren't separate privileges and the AI can never lose those rights once they gained it. seems to be a bug.

[jeffryfisher]

Train-running and track-building can be separate privileges depending on how the map is setup. AI companies can lose privileges if an event does it to them.

[letsdance]

yes i know they can be. but they aren't in my map. and my map does not have any events that make anyone lose territory rights. that's why i said they can't =)

[MaglevForever]

Still pretty much on topic, but I found a slightly different case. This is in the map US Crossroads with the Amtrak company. Now the early versions cut passenger production completely so Amtrak is doomed, but version 1.01 that Jeffry cleaned up the code has got passengers back with decent haulage revenue only for Amtrak.

 

Amtrak should make money with this version. Amtrak is running GG1s which means that it starts with electric track. However it is connected to your company, and in a high percentage of cases (80%+) the GG1 that leaves Washington at the start of the game will be turned back by the AI at the end of January, having traveled only a short distance towards Boston. The AI unloads this train, then re-routes it to Bangor which requires travel on your non-electric track. This train then blocks up Washington station.

 

I tried making a special territory for Amtrak along it's existing lines and forbidding it access everywhere else. So the journey should no longer be possible. But it still does the same thing. Any ideas?

 

 

On 13/08/2016 at 11:46 AM, jeffryfisher said:

Look at the AI's train routing. Are trains trying to go places that are impossible?

This. So, how to prevent the AI routing to impossible places?

[jeffryfisher]

Either do something dramatic, such as electrifying all track and (if possible) disallowing plain track builds, or else sever all of Amtrak's connections to outside rails. I'd lean toward the latter. You might also cave in and replace Amtrak's GG1's with non-historical diesels.

Now we know why the AI never buys electric engines. It was never taught how to choose electric-only routes. Note that a human can get into a bind using AI stations: You may electrify part of an AI company's track (you pay, but the AI company owns the result as a gift). However, there's a bug in the game that prevents you from electrifying another company's bridges. You still pay, but bridges will not be electrified... no matter how many times you pay to do so, the power just doesn't stick on foreign bridges.

So, if an AI company manages to own a bottle-neck bridge that you want to cross after you've gone electric, then you must either buy the company, or pay the price for an electric detour, or remember to buy non-electric engines for that destination.

[MaglevForever]

At first electric track was the problem, but with the addition of extra access restrictions for Amtrak, it doesn't matter any more. I replaced the GG1s with diesels and I get the same behavior. Even if I set the map so NO companies have access rights to that track, the clever computer wants to send an Amtrak train to Bangor. Really strange. If you should want to try it yourself please note that I am testing with a custom difficulty of +25% revenue for the AI. Shouldn't make a difference, but you never know.

 

Yes, complete separation would be best. Still need to work out how to prevent the human player from sabotaging that setup. If I replace with diesels, a connection to Amtrak's tracks will probably encourage Amtrak to run on the player's track. In some cases, this might mean "free" money for the player.

 

PS. Good info on the electrification of bridges bug. My preference is to avoid running on AI track all together, but will keep it in mind.