Condition type - Casualties RESEARCH

[Cm_blast]

I did some small research some time ago in another post, but now I went more serious and more accuracy:

I used a treshold of 0 and some valors, combined wit a "show message" event type. So if the casualties reach the "limit", my message appears over and oner wit no limit. If the casualties goes down, the event don't trigger. I use this method as a check up.
I'm going to start with a neutral valor= 3F80000.
When I use this valor and set the treshold to 0 this happen --> 2 of mi units die (my message triggers over and over), then I kill 2 enemies: the message stop. And for here, for eevery unit I die, I need to kill 1 to make my message to stop triggering.
This means that 3F800000 is a 1:1 situation (this is not affected if an ally kill or get killed).

Using the same logic I have the proportions of some other valors. I did for over 10 rounds (I make the message triiger 10 times an stopped another 10, with some exceptions). Keep in mind that all is acummulative, so in a 1:1 proportion, if you kill 100 enemies, then unless you loose others 100 nothing happen.

So, these are the proportions:
Flags?      -  DIE:KILLING
3E000000 = 1:8
3ED00000 = 1:2.5 or 2:5
3F000000 = 1:2
3F100000 = 1:1.75 Or 4:7
3F800000 = 1:1
3FE00000 = 1.75:1 or 7:4 (this is used by Mercs in O9v1: "We're losing too many men!". The mercs need to died 7 units to trigger, but only kill 4 to avoid the message
3FF00000 = 1.80:1 or 9:5.
40000000 = 1.90:1 or 19:10
40200000 = 2.3:1 or 23:10 (Mercs O9v1: "We've lost too many men. We must withdraw our support!")
40F00000 = 5.3:1 or 53:10

All this is an estimation. Doing a 100 Loose X units and Kill Y Units will be more accurace, but i think is excesive to go so deep for this.
Also the last 5 numbers (zeroes in my table) also affect proportions. For example, EF853753 Will increase like 1:1.105 (I did not check this) or somethin like that (more decimals, making this a 100:93 proportion).

And finally. I tried adding the treshold to 3F800000, since is a 1:1 proportion (or almost 1:1), A treshold of 5 this happen:
after dieing 6 units, message triggers
I need to kill 6 units to make the message stop
after that, the event go to a 1 on 1 situation (1 dieing trigger, 1 kill stop).
so, the treshold 5 make the game said "until you don't loose 5 units more than your killed, I' not going to start checking proportions", after the fifth loose is "ok, 1 more to make me trigger", so when trigger, you need to compensate killing 6 units. (Of course, int the merc becoming neutral there is not return, since when the proportion is reached the game makes them neutral and don´t care more of counting).

In my pesonal opinion (to people who want to use this), is better to focus on the first three numbers, since the other 5 is like addind 7 decimals into a division of 2 digits where 1 or 2 decimals are enough.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Cm_blast

[Klofkac]

Very good research. I once also played around with it (but just modified threshold and left the "Flags?" value default) but did not find out anything significant about it, had no idea it could be a proportion. Maybe this could be used effectively in new missions, do you have any good ideas?

[Cm_blast]

3 hours ago, Klofkac said:

Very good research. I once also played around with it (but just modified threshold and left the "Flags?" value default) but did not find out anything significant about it, had no idea it could be a proportion. Maybe this could be used effectively in new missions, do you have any good ideas?

I forget to tell that 00000000 is a 1:0 proportion, where at the moment 1 of your units die the message appears forever and FFFFFFFF being the opposite (sacrificing my own units never trigger).

Previously I use in a campaign (Spacing Guild) where you have to protect 100 Ordos unmanned vehicles the Flag 00000000 to do a counting. If 10 Ordos are killed a message trigger "90% vehicles Ordos remaining.", then another for 20, 30, 40, 50... and if 70 Ordos were killed you loose the mission.

Now, knowing this is a proportion, I have an initial idea: The Emperor want to join Atreides or Harkonnen, but both seems to have the same army power, he doesn´t want to do a bad choice joining the weaker, so he said "I will join the one who kill the most". So after X minutes the Emperor Join the side depending of the counting. This could be a one vs another scenario or the 2 main characters competing to kill a third-fourth... player/s. Or multiplayer/online!

 

Edited July 1, 2016 by Cm_blast

[Klofkac]

Heh, I finally realized that the "Flags?" value is actually a 32bit floating-point number. I did not consider it earlier when making events and conditions editor.

So basically:
3F800000 = 1.0
3E000000 = 0.125
3F000000 = 0.5
40200000 = 2.5 etc etc.

Here you can pretty easily convert between hex representation and the actual value of the number: http://www.h-schmidt.net/FloatConverter/IEEE754.html

[Cm_blast]

6 hours ago, Klofkac said:

Heh, I finally realized that the "Flags?" value is actually a 32bit floating-point number. I did not consider it earlier when making events and conditions editor.

So basically:
3F800000 = 1.0
3E000000 = 0.125
3F000000 = 0.5
40200000 = 2.5 etc etc.

Here you can pretty easily convert between hex representation and the actual value of the number: http://www.h-schmidt.net/FloatConverter/IEEE754.html

Great.

Now is more accuracy that my post, which is cool, and easy to understand.

[Fey]

I finally got around to having a look at this ^^

I thought it was a proportion. But however in the world did you figure out the numbers? Like... "3F800000"? Where does that even come from? It's hex, right?

Oh, just scrolled down the comments. Yeah, it's hex. That's some mighty fine work you did there, Cm

[superone]

Hello and sorry for bringing up an old thread.

I was curious what counts towards the kills / losses in the Causalities condition so I did some experiments. These are the results of the testing:

Every enemy, allied or own unit killed counts for the units killed parameter.

• Killing allied units counts. (For example killing allied infantry with a Siege Tank).
• Killing your own units counts. (For example killing own infantry with a Siege Tank).
• Kills made with Ornithopters count.
• Kills made with Death Hand Missile count.
• Kills made with Turrets count.
• You shooting / forcing the worm to sleep doesn't count.
• Structures destroyed don't count.

For the units lost condition, every source of unit loss counts.

• Utilizing a Saboteur (destroying a building) counts as a unit lost.
• Vehicles lost to Worm Attacks count as lost.
• Units lost to Spice mound bursts count as lost.
• Losing a structure doesn't count.

The type of unit does not seem to affect the counters, losing an Infantry counts the same as losing a Vehicle.

[Cm_blast]

The old post is pretty much outdated since then now with all the new releases of new versions of the editor we have actual regular numbers and not hexadecimal counts, although overall still works the same.

I don´t remember if I mention the proportions on the original post: this is a screenshot from the lastes editor that no longer use hexadecimal values.

If you have a proportion of 1,000, killing your own units won´d do anything, as you get both a kill an a casualty at the same time.

Because of these, the mercenaries with whatever proportion they had (I don´t remember from memory right now), even if they kill their own troopers with the sieges that won´t affect them, or at least not in a negative way. I guess you can make them kill their own troopers with their sieges just to make it to not turn against you easily on those missions.

And, if I recall, crushing over infantry also count.

Edited October 29 by Cm_blast